Darks wrote on Apr 11, 2017, 08:18:
CD Keys.com does, and they don't change you extra bullshit changes for something. G2A even when you don't take their insurance tosses on an extra 50 cents to 2 dollars depending on the cost of what you are buying when you check out. Cd Keys does not do that.

I try to go through CDkeys.com (sell keys themselves) or Green Man Gaming (arrange deep discounts directly with the 500 publishers they work with; sometimes better than Steam). G2A, while nice, is riddled with too many issues.

Prez wrote on Apr 11, 2017, 10:43:

I don't understand why people bother with insurance. That's what credit cards are for. Paypal will always issue a chargeback if there's a problem and refund your money.

That's the problem. Developers are being hit with charge backs and losing tons of money. At least one indie dev has been forced to close because of it, but there are multiple reports of it happening by many developers. They are responsible for the chargebacks, not the credit card company or PayPal.

I'm not 100%, but I believe this is a direct result of the EMV technology (Chip and PIN). It was created to protect traditional brick and mortar businesses but does NOTHING for eCommerce. Under the stripe system, the card issuer is responsible for fraud transactions. The EMV system changed the rules so that the company, not the card issuer, is now responsible for the bulk of fraud purchases. Whenever EMV was adopted eCommerce saw a significant increase in Card-Not-Present (CNP) fraud. Most medium to large firms can handle it with services and staff to weed out fraud orders, but smaller companies like that indie dev, are getting hit hard with fraud expenses.

I did extensive research into EMV ahead of the U.S. transition to it. I wanted to let my boss know what's coming and what our company could do to mitigate the sizeable spike in CNP fraud.

Darks wrote on Apr 11, 2017, 08:18:

CD Keys.com does, and they dont change you extra bullshit changes for something. G2A even when you dont take their insurance tosses on an extra 50 cents to 2 dollars depending on the cost of what you are buying when you check out. Cd Keys does not do that.

I don't think CDkeys.com is the same as G2A. It appears the site acquires keys itself and sells them. So only one seller.

G2A is presumably keys coming from anyone on the internet. I could list something, or you could. The game I ended up buying, south park: stick of truth, $5.90 in the end, worked and I'm playing it.

On CD keys the game is $7.50 but it's out of stock. Even if they had it instock I'd probably take the lower price because the code is probably just some guy who has an unused code and is selling it.

I don't see how the site can overwhelmingly be stolen keys. Stolen keys should be revoked and if most of the purchases people make in the site are for bad keys then we'd be hearing a lot more from users.

My suspicion is that by offering an ebay like listing system where anyone can offer their codes they've created a fast and easy way for users to trade their codes for cash and because it's a risky process to begin with the prices stay very low. Publishers devs won't like that, the current system of discount bundles is probably fueling it, and the volume of sales off the site has creaped up to where publishers/devs are paying attention. If CC fraud is a major problem for your company then you need to figure out how to minimize that on your end. Perhaps don't sell to random users / organizations for the first month or two when demand is highest. Some CC's offer more authentication on purchase, you have to type in additional info to use the card for example.

Paypal will always issue a chargeback if there's a problem and refund your money.

I'm guessing you've never actually tried to do that. Getting Paypal to issue chargebacks when the vendor doesn't agree with your complaint basically doesn't happen.

Prez wrote on Apr 11, 2017, 10:43:

I don't understand why people bother with insurance. That's what credit cards are for. Paypal will always issue a chargeback if there's a problem and refund your money.

That's the problem. Developers are being hit with charge backs and losing tons of money. At least one indie dev has been forced to close because of it, but there are multiple reports of it happening by many developers. They are responsible for the chargebacks, not the credit card company or PayPal.

Wait, you mean there's a bigger picture. That's never going to fly when it pertains to the "I only care about how it a effects me" world of cutter.

I don't understand why people bother with insurance. That's what credit cards are for. Paypal will always issue a chargeback if there's a problem and refund your money.

That's the problem. Developers are being hit with charge backs and losing tons of money. At least one indie dev has been forced to close because of it, but there are multiple reports of it happening by many developers. They are responsible for the chargebacks, not the credit card company or PayPal.

Darks wrote on Apr 11, 2017, 08:18:

Blackhawk wrote on Apr 11, 2017, 06:48:

Tumbler wrote on Apr 11, 2017, 01:13:

G2A is shady but no one offers anything better.

I wouldn't have to look hard to find something better than a key bought with stolen credit card number that gets revoked.

CD Keys.com does, and they dont change you extra bullshit changes for something. G2A even when you dont take their insurance tosses on an extra 50 cents to 2 dollars depending on the cost of what you are buying when you check out. Cd Keys does not do that.

I don't understand why people bother with insurance. That's what credit cards are for. Paypal will always issue a chargeback if there's a problem and refund your money. Anyway, yeah CDKey is better. Kinguin is good to comparison shop.

Blackhawk wrote on Apr 11, 2017, 06:48:

Tumbler wrote on Apr 11, 2017, 01:13:

G2A is shady but no one offers anything better.

I wouldn't have to look hard to find something better than a key bought with stolen credit card number that gets revoked.

I keep hearing that but have never seen any actual proof. On the other hand I've bought keys from resellers for years with nary a problem. Greedy publishers are their own worst enemy. They could make this all disappear by being fair, but they're not, so fuck them.

Blackhawk wrote on Apr 10, 2017, 21:50:
This one isn't complicated. One of the demands is that they stop charging for 'insurance' that their games are legitimate.

They still charge for the insurance.

Yes. And good luck de-activating their garbage "G2A Shield" subscription where they charge you per month for the protection that every other legitimate online seller provides for free, as they should. I spent a month with their non-functional deactivation process and useless support system before giving up and just telling my bank to block all further charges by G2A.

Blackhawk wrote on Apr 11, 2017, 06:48:

Tumbler wrote on Apr 11, 2017, 01:13:

G2A is shady but no one offers anything better.

I wouldn't have to look hard to find something better than a key bought with stolen credit card number that gets revoked.

CD Keys.com does, and they dont change you extra bullshit changes for something. G2A even when you dont take their insurance tosses on an extra 50 cents to 2 dollars depending on the cost of what you are buying when you check out. Cd Keys does not do that.

Tumbler wrote on Apr 11, 2017, 01:13:

G2A is shady but no one offers anything better.

I wouldn't have to look hard to find something better than a key bought with stolen credit card number that gets revoked.

It sure seems like this is the latest in a line of industry versus consumers. There has been the GameStop used games are the same as stealing, games are more expensive so we have to dlc, we have to have always on drm, next gen consoles will lock games to users need always online, return policy? What's that?

These guys never learn.

G2A is shady but no one offers anything better. I don't know where else u can go to flip a key you aren't going to use quick and easy. It's time to offer an easy secure way to trade games you haven't played. Why doesn't steam have a marketplace to trade on?

The only time I even look at G2A is when they start bitching. So far I've bought two games, both worked, so maybe don't keep bringing it up?

More like Gearbox wanted a bigger cut of the "insurance" and G2A told them to suck it. They're both shitheels.

Kxmode wrote on Apr 10, 2017, 22:12:

Wallshadows wrote on Apr 10, 2017, 21:55:
Gearbox had to have been ignorant of their business to a certain degree because it only became a problem when Total Biscuit basically spelled it out for them when they asked why he boycotted their titles for supporting G2A.

That's the point. Gearbox was no longer ignorant after TB let them know and they went to G2A to demand if this exclusive deal happens with you people you need to make assurances (which they lined out). After all that, G2A behaved like Gearbox was still ignorant of their business. Make sense?

Ah, yes, I see what you mean.

Wallshadows wrote on Apr 10, 2017, 21:55:
Gearbox had to have been ignorant of their business to a certain degree because it only became a problem when Total Biscuit basically spelled it out for them when they asked why he boycotted their titles for supporting G2A.

That's the point. Gearbox was no longer ignorant after TB let them know and they went to G2A to demand if this exclusive deal happens with you people you need to make assurances (which they lined out). After all that, G2A behaved like Gearbox was still ignorant of their business. Make sense?

Kxmode wrote on Apr 10, 2017, 21:39:
So what they're doing, in a very passive damage-control way, is blaming Gearbox for being ignorant of their business. If these requests are "part of our marketplace" G2A could have easily provided Gearbox with the assurances they wanted. I think I'm going to side with Gearbox on this.

Gearbox had to have been ignorant of their business to a certain degree because it only became a problem when Total Biscuit basically spelled it out for them when they asked why he boycotted their titles for supporting G2A.

This one isn't complicated. One of the demands is that they stop charging for 'insurance' that their games are legitimate.

They still charge for the insurance.

So what they're doing, in a very passive damage-control way, is blaming Gearbox for being ignorant of their business. If these requests are "part of our marketplace" G2A could have easily provided Gearbox with the assurances they wanted. I think I'm going to side with Gearbox on this.