I disagree with the people poo-pooing Windows Solitaire. Windows has had other games, Reversi in the old days and then Minesweeper, but Solitaire is in that sweet spot for casual time-wasting for all comers. Until the match-3 game came along I don't think there was anything else to rival it for killing productivity.

In contrast, the solitaire that comes with Windows 8 & 10 is an abomination. It's buggy, microtransactiony and ad-ridden. I can't believe Microsoft wants people to take them seriously as a games platform at the same time they're screwing up 27 years of a good thing.

===

What fighting games came before SF2? I gather there was a SF1, but it looks like those relatively bland karate championship type games. If SF2 was the first one with a character select and different movesets I think that would be a pretty big evolution.

Mordecai Walfish wrote on Mar 29, 2017, 17:19:
You can't honestly tell me that Street Fighter 2 didn't have much of an influence on gaming.. it's literally the cornerstone of every fighting game that came after it.

I debated SF2 pretty heavily, but it was an iteration on games that had come before. It didn't heavily reinvent an already burgeoning genre.

I'm on board with Donkey Kong, Solitaire and Wii Sports....

FFVII, Myst, Resident Evil - King's Quest or Zork should go in that slot.

Warcraft - Just no. Warcraft was a purely derivative work from Dune II and Games Workshop's Fantasy world. Don't get me wrong, I have hundreds of hours on it...but it doesn't really qualify. Would much rather see Dune II there...loved it when I realized you could actually harvest dead worms.

Cabinet Games - How about Joust? Unique mechanics and gameplay that really has never been done better.

Apart from Donkey Kong and Mortal Kombat, none of these games really belong on that list. SF2 maybe. Thats a pretty terrible and shitty list all in all.

What a load of crap.

What the What?

No Half-Life or Counter-Strike.

RoboNerd wrote on Mar 29, 2017, 13:27:

El Pit wrote on Mar 29, 2017, 11:53:
The most deserving titles are IMO Windows Solitaire and Donkey Kong. All those new games can go and wait another decade or two.

Along that line some of the early work by Ozark Softscape and Dan Bunten should already be in there - M.U.L.E.

Oregon Trail!

Mordecai Walfish wrote on Mar 29, 2017, 17:55:
In the realm of "thinking bigger", I believe that SF2 is still the correct pick before MK or any other fighting game. MK wasnt the worldwide success that SF2 was. And I honestly believe that if you were asked to name a fighting game randomly that Street Fighter 2 would be more common than MK. In the "social and cultural" department, it trumps MK as well. Just a couple weeks ago a female UFC fighter did Sagat's famous winning taunt from SF2 at her pre-fight meetup, along with wearing his eyepatch. SF2 is much bigger than MK ever was. MK had the shock/gore recognition when it came out, and had the better movie.. but that's about it.

Video of the UFC fighter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhrV8AZQp_g

Well, we're gonna have to agree to disagree because I think the exact, complete opposite. Maybe it comes down to personal experience. I've seen and heard more people mention MK than SF2. In fact, aside from a few friends (including one who played SF2TE obsessively every day in 1993), I've not heard anyone mention SF2 that hadn't actually played it. I'm not discounting your opinion, you're not wrong, this whole thing is based on opinion, really, but I just disagree, on my end.

=-Rigs-=

Rigs wrote on Mar 29, 2017, 17:23:

Mordecai Walfish wrote on Mar 29, 2017, 17:19:
You can't honestly tell me that Street Fighter 2 didn't have much of an influence on gaming.. it's literally the cornerstone of every fighting game that came after it.

Yes, but Mortal Kombat trumps it in the 'social and cultural' department. Ask someone with little to no gaming experience to name a fighting game and it's going to be Mortal Kombat at least 7 out of 10 times*. Like I said earlier, think bigger. Am I on everyone's 'Ignore' list?


=-Rigs-=

* Statistics pulled straight out of my ass...ie my opinion

In the realm of "thinking bigger", I believe that SF2 is still the correct pick before MK or any other fighting game. MK wasnt the worldwide success that SF2 was. And I honestly believe that if you were asked to name a fighting game randomly that Street Fighter 2 would be more common than MK. In the "social and cultural" department, it trumps MK as well. Just a couple weeks ago a female UFC fighter did Sagat's famous winning taunt from SF2 at her pre-fight meetup, along with wearing his eyepatch. SF2 is much bigger than MK ever was. MK had the shock/gore recognition when it came out, and had the better movie.. but that's about it.

Video of the UFC fighter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhrV8AZQp_g

And even Dune II built off of concepts in other games that came before it.

Mordecai Walfish wrote on Mar 29, 2017, 17:19:
You can't honestly tell me that Street Fighter 2 didn't have much of an influence on gaming.. it's literally the cornerstone of every fighting game that came after it.

Yes, but Mortal Kombat trumps it in the 'social and cultural' department. Ask someone with little to no gaming experience to name a fighting game and it's going to be Mortal Kombat at least 7 out of 10 times*. Like I said earlier, think bigger. Am I on everyone's 'Ignore' list?

Blackhawk wrote on Mar 29, 2017, 17:25:
And even Dune II built off of concepts in other games that came before it.

Name one.

=-Rigs-=

* Statistics pulled straight out of my ass...ie my opinion

Creston wrote on Mar 29, 2017, 10:52:
If I had a ballot, I'd put Donkey Kong, FF7, Solitaire and Myst in there.

Donkey Kong was probably one of the most iconic arcade cabinets of all time.

FF7 was groundbreaking at the time it came out, with the way it used polygons and 3d scenery, and it ushered in a new age of games.

Solitaire has been played by roughly 7 billion people.

And Myst, for whatever reason, was an iconic game that shifted umpteen million PCs.

The rest were good games (in many cases better than the four previously listed), but really didn't have that much of an influence or were just iterations on stuff that came before.

I could be persuaded for a case for Wii sports.

You can't honestly tell me that Street Fighter 2 didn't have much of an influence on gaming.. it's literally the cornerstone of every fighting game that came after it.

Jagacademy wrote on Mar 29, 2017, 15:58:

Orogogus wrote on Mar 29, 2017, 15:54:
I think most of the oldies on this board probably played Dune 2, and I don't know why you think it wasn't a commercial success. It got a lot of glowing reviews, it was huge in my dorm, and it's one of three games that my dad has ever played (the other two being Freecell and Sudoku).

Warcraft was the first and pretty much only game where I ever thought, "Holy shit, you can just copy someone else's game like this without getting sued?" Ever since then I've assumed the answer is yes, you can, and gameplay can't be copyrighted.

Because this list isn't simply a list of "First games in every genre". Final Fantasy...literally the guy who created it said he was heavily influenced by the Ultima games, yet I don't see them on here.

What question are you answering here? I don't think I suggested that the list should be the first genre games. But I think Dune 2 had a huge impact and I think it sold well.

And really? Dune II/Warcraft was the first time you thought that one game copies another? C'mon man, you're really stretching here.

It was the first one I ever played that copied a look and feel so closely. But in general, X-Wing kind of looks and plays like Wing Commander. Final Fantasy is like Ultima. Tons of RPGs have hit points and magic points. But Warcraft had the same map/minimap/unit profile screen layout, the same controls, the same fog of war, the building/harvest/unit gameplay. I knew how to play without opening the manual, which wasn't always a thing back then.

If you had an earlier experience that was that similar, what was it?

Orogogus wrote on Mar 29, 2017, 15:54:
I think most of the oldies on this board probably played Dune 2, and I don't know why you think it wasn't a commercial success. It got a lot of glowing reviews, it was huge in my dorm, and it's one of three games that my dad has ever played (the other two being Freecell and Sudoku).

Warcraft was the first and pretty much only game where I ever thought, "Holy shit, you can just copy someone else's game like this without getting sued?" Ever since then I've assumed the answer is yes, you can, and gameplay can't be copyrighted.

Because this list isn't simply a list of "First games in every genre". Final Fantasy...literally the guy who created it said he was heavily influenced by the Ultima games, yet I don't see them on here.

And really? Dune II/Warcraft was the first time you thought that one game copies another? C'mon man, you're really stretching here.

Orogogus wrote on Mar 29, 2017, 15:54:
Warcraft was the first and pretty much only game where I ever thought, "Holy shit, you can just copy someone else's game like this without getting sued?" Ever since then I've assumed the answer is yes, you can, and gameplay can't be copyrighted.

I think that goes all the way back to the roots.

I think most of the oldies on this board probably played Dune 2, and I don't know why you think it wasn't a commercial success. It got a lot of glowing reviews, it was huge in my dorm, and it's one of three games that my dad has ever played (the other two being Freecell and Sudoku).

Warcraft was the first and pretty much only game where I ever thought, "Holy shit, you can just copy someone else's game like this without getting sued?" Ever since then I've assumed the answer is yes, you can, and gameplay can't be copyrighted.

LiTh wrote on Mar 29, 2017, 14:23:

Yosemite Sam wrote on Mar 29, 2017, 13:35:

Where's Warcraft? it only launched the entire RTS genre.

As an RTS fan going back to the beginning, Nope....nope nope nope.

The only thing before Warcraft was Dune II. Although Dune II would be considered the first RTS, it didn't really "launch" the genre, as it was far from a commercial success in any way. (and I'd bet almost everyone saying "Rah rah Dune II!" ironically actually played Warcraft first) I'd say Dune II influenced Warcraft, and Warcraft launched the genre.

Yosemite Sam wrote on Mar 29, 2017, 13:35:
I don't think solitaire should be on the list at all. What exactly did it inspire other then millions of lost hours of work. Only reason it's so popular is it came with all the windows operating systems, it's just a card game.

Still, it happened. It was there. No other game was so popular (included with Windows). Yeah, it was the one that every bored office drone and grandma played, but there were others to choose from and the one you only ever heard about was Solitaire. So whether it was just a digital recreation of a simple card game, it doesn't matter. It's one of the only games you can talk about that anyone that's ever touched a Windows PC would know about and that got it into popular culture.

Where's Warcraft? it only launched the entire RTS genre. Simcity? there's no Sims without Simcity. Halo, Portal pffft, more worthy FPS games deserve those spots.

I'd venture to say that Dune would be a better choice as a founder of the genre. Before Dune, they were just 'strategy games'. As for 'more worthy FPS games', yes, there are others that are worthy of the title of best FPS or first, but not many can be said to have popular and social appeal. Nearly everyone knows Halo. It didn't start the FPS genre but it refined and redefined it, for better or worse, especially on consoles. Doom is already on the list and while Quake was better technical-wise, Doom is better known socially and that's more of what this list is about.

We've kinda got tunnel-vision because we deal with and know about games every day. We know the details. We know the history. The wider public does not. You have to remember that. You have to put aside your 'PC Master Race' ego and think about what your family and neighbors and co-workers would know and would think. Because that shows how far the industry and the games have come. Not just in our little ecosystem. Think bigger.

=-Rigs-=

No to Solitarie because it's a card game that just happens to be on a computer. And it's not like people went out of their way to buy it it was just bundled with the OS. And certainly nothing that's platform exclusive either.

Yosemite Sam wrote on Mar 29, 2017, 13:35:

Where's Warcraft? it only launched the entire RTS genre.

As an RTS fan going back to the beginning, Nope....nope nope nope.

MajorD wrote on Mar 29, 2017, 10:46:
WTF is Snuggle Truck?!?!

It's actually a mobile game where you drive a truck and try to keep stuffed animals in it as you go over obstacles. Funny thing, the first version of this game was called Smuggle Truck and you had to try and smuggle mexicans over the border- much more interesting IMO.

http://smuggletruck.com