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Out of the Blue

AP stylebook now allows the "singular they" in some instances. I got excited over some semi-official approval of a gender-neutral pronoun, but this is apparently only for cases where the subject identifies with neither gender. That's all well and good, but English still could use a gender-neutral pronoun for other cases, and I will continue to use "they" or "them" for the purpose until we get one, even if its technically incorrect. If anyone has a problem with that, they can come and see me.

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83 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 1.
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83. Re: Endless Space 2 Announced Mar 31, 2017, 16:38 Quboid
 
Asmodai wrote on Mar 28, 2017, 19:12:
I really hope you aren't a straight white male appropriating trans rage. That would be fairly tragic. /giggle

Why would that be tragic?

This comment was edited on Mar 31, 2017, 16:52.
 
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
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82. Re: Heroes of the Storm 2.0 Plans Mar 30, 2017, 21:22 Kxmode
 
jdreyer wrote on Mar 29, 2017, 17:33:
Kxmode wrote on Mar 27, 2017, 18:14:
*Science is an appropriate default at times and I will gladly refer to it when warranted.

Science is always the appropriate default, since it's correct until proven otherwise.

Not always. There are plenty of things we could discuss, but I think not digging into that minutiae is a better choice. Toff
 
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William Shakespeare's "Star Wars" Act I, Scene 4: CHORUS: And now, dear viewers, shall our play go to \ A Planet stark and drear for our next scene. \ Imagine sand and rocks within thy view. \ Prepare thy souls - we fly to Tatooine!
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81. Re: On Sale Mar 29, 2017, 17:33 jdreyer
 
Kxmode wrote on Mar 27, 2017, 18:14:
*Science is an appropriate default at times and I will gladly refer to it when warranted. Smart

Science is always the appropriate default, since it's correct until proven otherwise.
 
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Stay a while, and listen.
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80. Re: Out of the Blue Mar 29, 2017, 17:28 jdreyer
 
Porn-O-Matic wrote on Mar 27, 2017, 13:55:
Let's see now, I've decided that I don't identify with my age, so instead I will identify with all ages, which means everyone should be 100% accepting of me hanging out in school playgrounds.

You see where this bullshit is going, right? Pedophiles are next in line for "acceptance". Believe it. Look between your fucking legs... that is WHAT YOU ARE. Pretending not to be in your head is a mental illness, period.

Well, except that pedoffilia is a horrific crime that inflicts terrible pain and suffering to the most innocent, and being LGBT is a quirk of genetic mutation that hurts no one and deserves our understanding and accommodation. Other than that they are the same.
 
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79. Re: Endless Space 2 Announced Mar 28, 2017, 19:12 Asmodai
 
Kxmode wrote on Mar 27, 2017, 19:18:
@Asmodai - My spell checker can't even.
http://i.imgur.com/C8OiiCh.png

It's serendipitous that one of the phrases is "pronouns head hurts"...

Beamer wrote on Mar 27, 2017, 19:42:
Once again, no surprise the guy that uses "snowflake" has no clue what he's talking about.

Except that c16 criminalises it in regards to hate speech, and much like the QUT students in Australia that got slapped under our retarded 18c provisions, the process of successfully defending yourself against spurious charges of hate speech, brought subjectively by the "offended", can be ruinous. Never mind the chilling effect on free speech in general because people aren't sure where the subjective edge of the cliff is and err on the side of caution.

And it's already a reality in the US for more than just employers...

Link

The NYCHRL [New York City Human Rights Law] requires employers[, landlords, and all businesses and professionals] to use an [employee’s, tenant’s, customer’s, or client’s] preferred name, pronoun and title (e.g., Ms./Mrs.) regardless of the individual’s sex assigned at birth, anatomy, gender, medical history, appearance, or the sex indicated on the individual’s identification.

So yeah, it's not just as cut and dried as you like to make it out to be. Peterson already has his employer and a large number of staff claiming that parts of what he has said to date is hate speech, despite the fact that he's never actually expressed even a vague distaste for trans people, let alone full blown hatred...

I'm curious though, what are your personal pronouns Beamer? You obviously feel very strongly about this so I assume you actually have some skin in this game. I wouldn't want to offend, so we might as well get this out of the way now.

I really hope you aren't a straight white male appropriating trans rage. That would be fairly tragic. /giggle
 
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78. Re: Out of the Blue Mar 28, 2017, 13:49 RedEye9
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Mar 28, 2017, 00:07:
Okay -- I do not approve of Russia's actions. That said -- You want to complain about bad treatment in Russia? Get in the LONG fucking line...
History and facts will get you no where.
 
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77. Re: Endless Space 2 Announced Mar 28, 2017, 13:47 Sepharo
 
Blue wrote on Mar 27, 2017, 20:48:
Sepharo wrote on Mar 27, 2017, 20:33:
Blue wrote on Mar 26, 2017, 11:31:
"Where are they" is indeed what most of us say, but it is technically wrong by the rules of grammar, which obnoxiously call for "he" or less commonly "she" in this case.


What? No it's not / what rules?

edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

From that article:

"The singular they had emerged by the 14th century and is common in everyday spoken English, but its use has been the target of criticism since the late 19th century. Its use in formal English has increased with the trend toward gender-inclusive language."

And their point about its recent uptick is the same distinction we already discussed here, that its increased use is to be gender-inclusive, not gender-neutral.

English is defined by its usage. There were some 19th century grammarians who rather arbitrarily and incorrectly proscribed its usage... To be citing them in the 21 century is kind of ridiculous given the long history of "singular they" both before, after, and contemporaneous to when they made their claims.
 
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76. Re: Out of the Blue Mar 28, 2017, 00:07 Mr. Tact
 
Okay -- I do not approve of Russia's actions. That said -- You want to complain about bad treatment in Russia? Get in the LONG fucking line...  
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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75. Re: On Sale Mar 27, 2017, 23:05 Kxmode
 
Beamer wrote on Mar 27, 2017, 21:24:
Yup, I remember that time Rudy Guiliani went on to Fox News to brag that the President asked him to bar all Jehovah's Witnesses from entering the country.

You guys have it so rough.

It would probably good to read up on how "rough" they had it. To learn, and stuff...

Witnesses are closed to being banned in Russia: "A number of its publications have been inserted into the banned extremist literature link. Russian prosecutors have projected it as an organization which fosters hatred, threatens lives and destroys families." The Witnesses can be annoying at times, but fostering hatred? Threatening lives? Destroying families? wat.

This comment was edited on Mar 27, 2017, 23:50.
 
Avatar 18786
 
William Shakespeare's "Star Wars" Act I, Scene 4: CHORUS: And now, dear viewers, shall our play go to \ A Planet stark and drear for our next scene. \ Imagine sand and rocks within thy view. \ Prepare thy souls - we fly to Tatooine!
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74. Re: On Sale Mar 27, 2017, 21:24 Beamer
 
Kxmode wrote on Mar 27, 2017, 20:52:
Dacote wrote on Mar 27, 2017, 19:52:
Beamer wrote on Mar 27, 2017, 19:42:
Canada didn't make it illegal, they made it illegal for employers to do it to employees. Guess, what, if you misgender an employee in the US, you're going to be in for a bad time, too.

Once again, no surprise the guy that uses "snowflake" has no clue what he's talking about.
Nor does the one who cluelessly thinks this is all due to sin & imperfection.

Or more precisely my beliefs because, you know, Jehovah's Witnesses. "The religion to hate, since 1878." Shakefist


Yup, I remember that time Rudy Guiliani went on to Fox News to brag that the President asked him to bar all Jehovah's Witnesses from entering the country.

You guys have it so rough.
 
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http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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73. Re: On Sale Mar 27, 2017, 20:52 Kxmode
 
Dacote wrote on Mar 27, 2017, 19:52:
Beamer wrote on Mar 27, 2017, 19:42:
Canada didn't make it illegal, they made it illegal for employers to do it to employees. Guess, what, if you misgender an employee in the US, you're going to be in for a bad time, too.

Once again, no surprise the guy that uses "snowflake" has no clue what he's talking about.
Nor does the one who cluelessly thinks this is all due to sin & imperfection.

Or more precisely my beliefs because, you know, Jehovah's Witnesses. "The religion to hate, since 1878." Shakefist



This comment was edited on Mar 27, 2017, 21:10.
 
Avatar 18786
 
William Shakespeare's "Star Wars" Act I, Scene 4: CHORUS: And now, dear viewers, shall our play go to \ A Planet stark and drear for our next scene. \ Imagine sand and rocks within thy view. \ Prepare thy souls - we fly to Tatooine!
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72. Re: Endless Space 2 Announced Mar 27, 2017, 20:48  Blue 
 
Sepharo wrote on Mar 27, 2017, 20:33:
Blue wrote on Mar 26, 2017, 11:31:
"Where are they" is indeed what most of us say, but it is technically wrong by the rules of grammar, which obnoxiously call for "he" or less commonly "she" in this case.


What? No it's not / what rules?

edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

From that article:

"The singular they had emerged by the 14th century and is common in everyday spoken English, but its use has been the target of criticism since the late 19th century. Its use in formal English has increased with the trend toward gender-inclusive language."

And their point about its recent uptick is the same distinction we already discussed here, that its increased use is to be gender-inclusive, not gender-neutral.
 
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71. Re: Endless Space 2 Announced Mar 27, 2017, 20:33 Sepharo
 
Blue wrote on Mar 26, 2017, 11:31:
"Where are they" is indeed what most of us say, but it is technically wrong by the rules of grammar, which obnoxiously call for "he" or less commonly "she" in this case.


What? No it's not / what rules?

edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they
 
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70. Re: Endless Space 2 Announced Mar 27, 2017, 19:52 Dacote
 
Beamer wrote on Mar 27, 2017, 19:42:
Canada didn't make it illegal, they made it illegal for employers to do it to employees. Guess, what, if you misgender an employee in the US, you're going to be in for a bad time, too.

Once again, no surprise the guy that uses "snowflake" has no clue what he's talking about.
Nor does the one who cluelessly thinks this is all due to sin & imperfection.
 
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69. Re: Endless Space 2 Announced Mar 27, 2017, 19:42 Beamer
 
Asmodai wrote on Mar 27, 2017, 18:29:
Blue wrote on Mar 26, 2017, 11:31:
As for that different topic, I always feel it is easy enough to refer to people the way they prefer. That's just simple respect and doesn't seem that difficult.

Probably helps that USA hasn't gone full retard like Canada and made it illegal to misgender someone, even accidentally.

If you're talking about the micro scale (ie. personal interactions), then sure, that's just polite.

But on a macro scale?

Jeebus...


Nominative (subject) Accusative (object) Possessive adjective Possessive pronoun Reflexive
Elverson[1] ey laughed I kissed em eir head hurts that is eirs ey feeds emself
Spivak (original)[2] e laughed I kissed em eir head hurts that is eirs e feeds emself
Spivak variants e / ey laughed I kissed em / eir eir head hurts that is eirs e / ey feeds emself / eirself
sie and hir[3] sie laughed I kissed hir hir head hurts that is hirs sie feeds hirself
s/he and hir[4] s/he laughed I kissed hir hir head hurts that is hirs s/he feeds hirself
ze and hir[5] ze laughed I kissed hir hir head hurts that is hirs ze feeds hirself
xe[6] xe laughed I kissed xem xyr head hurts that is xyrs xe feeds xemself/xyrself
ve[7] ve laughed I kissed ver vis head hurts that is vis ve feeds verself
vey[8] vey laughed I kissed ve vy head hurts that is vyn vey feeds vyself
ze and mer[9] ze laughed I kissed mer zer head hurts that is zers ze feeds zemself
e, em, es[10] e laughed I kissed em es head hurts
e, em, e's[11] e laughed I kissed em e's head hurts that is e's e feeds emself
e and het e laughed I kissed het het head hurts that is hets e feeds hetself
thon[12][13][14] thon laughed I kissed thon thons head hurts that is thon's thon feeds thonself
Humanist[15][16] hu laughed I kissed hum hus head hurts that is hus hu feeds huself
hesh hesh laughed I kissed hesh hesh's head hurts that is hesh's hesh feeds heshself
ne ne laughed I kissed nem nir head hurts that is nirs ne feeds nemself
hiser or his'er [17] he'er laughed I kissed him'er/himer his'er/hiser head hurts that is his'ers/hisers
en en laughed I kissed en ens head hurts that is ens en feeds enself
hi hi laughed I kissed hem hes head hurts that is hes hi feeds hemself
le le laughed I kissed lim lis head hurts that is lis le feeds limself
himer himer laughed I kissed himer himer's head hurts that is himers himer feeds himerself
ir ir laughed I kissed iro irs head hurts that is irs ir feeds irself
se se laughed I kissed sim sis head hurts that is sis se feeds simself
hse hse laughed I kissed hse hse's head hurts that is hse's hse feeds hseself
co co laughed I kissed co cos head hurts that is co's co feeds coself
tey, tem, ter[18] tey laughed I kissed tem ter head hurts that is ters
tey tey laughed I kissed tem term head hurts that is terms term feeds termself
shkle shkle laughed I kissed shkler/shklim shklers head hurts that is shklers term feeds shklimself
ze ze laughed I kissed zim zees head hurts that is zees ze feeds zeeself
per[19] per laughed I kissed per pers head hurts that is pers per feeds perself
na na laughed I kissed nan nas head hurts that is nas na feeds naself
en en laughed I kissed ar es head hurts that is es en feeds arself
rim rim laughed I kissed run ris head hurts that is ris rim feeds rimself.
ae ae laughed I kissed ae ae's head hurts that is ae's ae feeds aeself
ay ay laughed I kissed ay ay's head hurts that is ay's ay feeds ayself
et et laughed I kissed et ets head hurts that is ets et feeds etself
heshe heshe laughed I kissed hen hes head hurts that is hes heshe feeds hemself
hann hann laughed I kissed hann hanns head hurts that is hanns hann feeds hannself
herm herm laughed I kissed herm herm's head hurts that is herm's herm feeds hermself
phe phe laughed I kissed phe phe's head hurts that is phe's phe feeds phe's self


Sorry, ain't nobody got time for that shit...

Canada didn't make it illegal, they made it illegal for employers to do it to employees. Guess, what, if you misgender an employee in the US, you're going to be in for a bad time, too.

Once again, no surprise the guy that uses "snowflake" has no clue what he's talking about.
 
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http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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68. Re: On Sale Mar 27, 2017, 19:18 Kxmode
 
@Asmodai - My spell checker can't even.
http://i.imgur.com/C8OiiCh.png
 
Avatar 18786
 
William Shakespeare's "Star Wars" Act I, Scene 4: CHORUS: And now, dear viewers, shall our play go to \ A Planet stark and drear for our next scene. \ Imagine sand and rocks within thy view. \ Prepare thy souls - we fly to Tatooine!
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67. Re: Endless Space 2 Announced Mar 27, 2017, 18:29 Asmodai
 
Blue wrote on Mar 26, 2017, 11:31:
As for that different topic, I always feel it is easy enough to refer to people the way they prefer. That's just simple respect and doesn't seem that difficult.

Probably helps that USA hasn't gone full retard like Canada and made it illegal to misgender someone, even accidentally.

If you're talking about the micro scale (ie. personal interactions), then sure, that's just polite.

But on a macro scale?

Jeebus...


Nominative (subject) Accusative (object) Possessive adjective Possessive pronoun Reflexive
Elverson[1] ey laughed I kissed em eir head hurts that is eirs ey feeds emself
Spivak (original)[2] e laughed I kissed em eir head hurts that is eirs e feeds emself
Spivak variants e / ey laughed I kissed em / eir eir head hurts that is eirs e / ey feeds emself / eirself
sie and hir[3] sie laughed I kissed hir hir head hurts that is hirs sie feeds hirself
s/he and hir[4] s/he laughed I kissed hir hir head hurts that is hirs s/he feeds hirself
ze and hir[5] ze laughed I kissed hir hir head hurts that is hirs ze feeds hirself
xe[6] xe laughed I kissed xem xyr head hurts that is xyrs xe feeds xemself/xyrself
ve[7] ve laughed I kissed ver vis head hurts that is vis ve feeds verself
vey[8] vey laughed I kissed ve vy head hurts that is vyn vey feeds vyself
ze and mer[9] ze laughed I kissed mer zer head hurts that is zers ze feeds zemself
e, em, es[10] e laughed I kissed em es head hurts
e, em, e's[11] e laughed I kissed em e's head hurts that is e's e feeds emself
e and het e laughed I kissed het het head hurts that is hets e feeds hetself
thon[12][13][14] thon laughed I kissed thon thons head hurts that is thon's thon feeds thonself
Humanist[15][16] hu laughed I kissed hum hus head hurts that is hus hu feeds huself
hesh hesh laughed I kissed hesh hesh's head hurts that is hesh's hesh feeds heshself
ne ne laughed I kissed nem nir head hurts that is nirs ne feeds nemself
hiser or his'er [17] he'er laughed I kissed him'er/himer his'er/hiser head hurts that is his'ers/hisers
en en laughed I kissed en ens head hurts that is ens en feeds enself
hi hi laughed I kissed hem hes head hurts that is hes hi feeds hemself
le le laughed I kissed lim lis head hurts that is lis le feeds limself
himer himer laughed I kissed himer himer's head hurts that is himers himer feeds himerself
ir ir laughed I kissed iro irs head hurts that is irs ir feeds irself
se se laughed I kissed sim sis head hurts that is sis se feeds simself
hse hse laughed I kissed hse hse's head hurts that is hse's hse feeds hseself
co co laughed I kissed co cos head hurts that is co's co feeds coself
tey, tem, ter[18] tey laughed I kissed tem ter head hurts that is ters
tey tey laughed I kissed tem term head hurts that is terms term feeds termself
shkle shkle laughed I kissed shkler/shklim shklers head hurts that is shklers term feeds shklimself
ze ze laughed I kissed zim zees head hurts that is zees ze feeds zeeself
per[19] per laughed I kissed per pers head hurts that is pers per feeds perself
na na laughed I kissed nan nas head hurts that is nas na feeds naself
en en laughed I kissed ar es head hurts that is es en feeds arself
rim rim laughed I kissed run ris head hurts that is ris rim feeds rimself.
ae ae laughed I kissed ae ae's head hurts that is ae's ae feeds aeself
ay ay laughed I kissed ay ay's head hurts that is ay's ay feeds ayself
et et laughed I kissed et ets head hurts that is ets et feeds etself
heshe heshe laughed I kissed hen hes head hurts that is hes heshe feeds hemself
hann hann laughed I kissed hann hanns head hurts that is hanns hann feeds hannself
herm herm laughed I kissed herm herm's head hurts that is herm's herm feeds hermself
phe phe laughed I kissed phe phe's head hurts that is phe's phe feeds phe's self


Sorry, ain't nobody got time for that shit...
 
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66. Re: Endless Space 2 Announced Mar 27, 2017, 18:22 Asmodai
 
Beamer wrote on Mar 26, 2017, 01:49:
You just compared being born differently, in a way that harms no one other than asking them to use a different pronoun, to wanting to have sex with 8 year old boys, and therefore nothing you ever say, about any topic, is worth listening to. You aren't terribly good at critically thinking.

Incorrect. Typical of a SJW to instantly nitpick the one thing they think can disqualify someone from the conversation rather than actually address things with anything other than the standard party line, which requires only spouting the same shit over and over again. The example is hyperbolic, sure, but it is certainly legitimate. How far must society bend to make everyone comfortable, rather than according all the same basic rights and then letting the system run itself from there? \= )

Instead of teaching people to overcome adversity, this sort of mollycoddling reinforces their status as permanent victims. Handicapped rather than handicapable... And a great many of "them" (ie. trans etc) are quite capable of taking care of themselves without well intentioned bleeding hearts constantly jumping to their defense.

So you can take your smug, holier than thou bullshit and shove it up your ass mate because, much like a devouring mother, you're really doing the people you purport to support nothing good.

As Schwarzenegger said yesterday, the people you are demeaning are likely infinitely better, and more valuable, humans than yourself, but keep thinking you're more worthwhile than them.

/shrug I don't think I'm more or less worthwhile than a group of people the majority of which I've never met. I don't envy their lives and think that it must take great fortitude to be stuck living so differently from others. I completely support equal rights/recognition, marriage equality etc, and as I said, if I am asked in person to use different pronouns, I will. (you must have missed that bit when you were getting all fucking salty)

Of course, you don't know me or the things I've been through and don't really care, so I guess your bleeding heart only runs so far before it stops giving a shit.. Not that I want you to of course, I'm a big boy and can take care of myself without someone leaping to my defense, but it's interesting that people that make a big show of just how much they care can be so damned insensitive... /grin
 
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65. Re: On Sale Mar 27, 2017, 18:14 Kxmode
 
Porn-O-Matic wrote on Mar 27, 2017, 13:55:
Let's see now, I've decided that I don't identify with my age, so instead I will identify with all ages, which means everyone should be 100% accepting of me hanging out in school playgrounds.

You see where this bullshit is going, right? Pedophiles are next in line for "acceptance". Believe it. Look between your fucking legs... that is WHAT YOU ARE. Pretending not to be in your head is a mental illness, period.

That's a bit excessive. Referencing biological sex for gender is always the safest since it is the widely recognized by science* and the Bible. Your take is 1000% adversarial, almost Westboro church-level stuff.

*Science is an appropriate default at times and I will gladly refer to it when warranted. Smart
 
Avatar 18786
 
William Shakespeare's "Star Wars" Act I, Scene 4: CHORUS: And now, dear viewers, shall our play go to \ A Planet stark and drear for our next scene. \ Imagine sand and rocks within thy view. \ Prepare thy souls - we fly to Tatooine!
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64. Re: Out of the Blue Mar 27, 2017, 17:52 Beamer
 
Slippery slope arguments are rarely good ones. Also, comparing people born not identifying to one of two genders who only ask that you respect this is a lot different than someone wanting to harm small children, is it not?

Not to some, I guess.

But hey, 4chan, 8chan, and parts of reddit are positively full of people who will argue that pedophiles who don't act on their urges should be an accepted part of society, a notion I will never accept myself.
 
-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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