Send News. Want a reply? Read this. More in the FAQ.   News Forum - All Forums - RSS Headlines   RSS Headlines   Twitter   Twitter

Morning Crowdfunding Roundup

  • STARFIGHTER INC by Impeller Studios Kickstarter. "Starfighter Inc. puts you in the cockpit of the future in a hard science-fiction based multiplayer space combat simulator, featuring hardcore shooter gameplay in the spirit of X-Wing vs. TIE-Fighter, but with unprecedented depth and sophistication. Starfighter Inc. combines the lethality and permadeath of Counter-Strike with the technical depth and customization of World of Warships. The key difference is that players operate a variety of nuclear-powered single and multi-crew fighters, reconnaissance ships, strike craft, and support ships, with weapons ranging from lasers, railguns, and missiles, to electronic and cyber warfare capabilities."
View
19 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 ] Older >


19. Re: Morning Crowdfunding Roundup Mar 20, 2017, 05:04 jdreyer
 
@ Yonder:

Our planet-based combat in no way compares to how combat in space will unfold hundreds of years from now. Thus I tried to make a hypothetical non-curved ocean. You're missing some of the unique challenges space combat will present to future generals and planners that simply don't exist on Earth.

1. Combat will take place at ranges of 100,000 to 1 million miles or more in the vast inky depths of space where there is no cover or concealment like there is here on Earth.

2. Vast amounts of energy will be required to either
- a. propel rail gun shells at 1000s of miles per second
- b. fire immensely power hungry directed energy weapons against distant targets.
Either of these weapons will require large power reserves and large ships to house them.

3. Power will be driven by massive fusion engines, and all the infrastructure that entails

4. In order to avoid being shredded by a single hit of these vastly powerful weapons, ships will have to be armored with thick composite plating as well as EM or plasma deflector shields. Again, massive amounts of energy required to move such a ship, as well as generate said deflector shields.

5. Vastly powerful computers can target and destroy multiple smaller ships in seconds. Fighter-size ships will have no way of withstanding the extremely accurate and powerful weapons of these ships in order to get into range and use whatever weapons they have.

Are there exceptions? Sure. In the same way Iran uses dozens of shore-launched speed boats to try and overwhelm the defenses of a Ticonderoga class cruiser in the Persian gulf, a capital ship in space could face a swarm of small light ships as it approached within a few hundred miles of a moon or dwarf planet. But a space navy wouldn't design most of its ships based on these edge cases.
 
Avatar 22024
 



The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

18. Re: New GeForce Drivers and GTX 1080 Ti Reviews Mar 18, 2017, 14:59 yonder
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Mar 18, 2017, 01:35:
There are lot of "ifs" to overcome but let's say humanity does end up in space and space travel becomes as bog standard as automobile travel currently is.

When it comes to war, as descender rightly said, there will be no dogfighting. However, I disagree with his scale.

Space warefare will necessarily be between capital ships solely and they will not be fought at hundreds of miles, or thousands of miles but will be at tens of thousands of miles or greater distances. Space is fucking vast, even within our own solar system.

Unfortunately, that's the thinking the big nations had prior to Jutland. No need for medium or small ships since we have these dreadnoughts which, one v one, will destroy anything lesser than it.

Obviously that turned out to not be the case.

See my below point about Big, Medium, Small. That still will always, always, always exist.

There's a reason why the Death Star had fleets of fighters stationed on board. It's the same reason the Bismarck had men firing hand-held guns at the swordfish torpedo bombers. The Bismarck's regular guns weren't calibrated to be able to shoot at something to pathetically old and low tech.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

17. Re: New GeForce Drivers and GTX 1080 Ti Reviews Mar 18, 2017, 14:56 yonder
 
jdreyer wrote on Mar 17, 2017, 16:28:
descender wrote on Mar 17, 2017, 15:37:
I wonder how far along our technology has to progress before the general public will understand that "space dogfighting" is not and will never be a thing.

I think we already understand that. Assuming we haven't overcome our warlike tendencies by the time we are regularly traversing among the planets, capital ships would dominate space navies. Fighter type ships would lack the armor, weaponry, and range except in perhaps very special circumstances.

The analogy for actual space navies in a few hundred years won't be aircraft vs. naval ships. It will be naval ships vs. naval ships. Imagine a modern navy doing battle on a perfectly flat ocean (no hiding behind the curvature of the earth) with hyper accurate standoff weapons with ranges of hundreds of miles. Now imagine trying to take on a Ticonderoga class frigate or Zumwalt class destroyer with a speedboat. How would that little speed boat fair against mach 3 antiship missiles?

That being said, we still enjoy playing WW2 fighter games, even though the last time the USA had a gun kill was 25 years ago.

Rock Paper Scissors will never not be true. In the same way that tanks will always been individual terrorists and IEDs, frigates and destroyers will always beat individual gunboats. But that's not the point.

It wasn't the point 100 years ago when they pointed out that the massive new dreadnoughts would beat submarines and therefore piddly-ass tiny lil submarines are completely useless. It wasn't the point 70 years ago when they people said planes and torpedoes will never be able to penetrate the likes of Pearl Harbor and Taranto. It wasn't the point 50 years ago when the US military dropped more ordinance on Vietnam than they did on the rest of the world in WW2.

Sometimes, as bad-ass as a tank is, the best weapon against a tank is a single infantryman with either a bazooka or a molotov cocktail.

In WW2, Germany started to produce some tanks without machineguns cuz, duh, it's a TANK, and all it needs was that gigantic main gun and it's fine... right? Wrong. Those tanks were some of the most vulnerable tanks of the war and always required infantry escort to help the tank fight against the swarms of infantry.

Big will always beat medium.
Medium will always beat small.
Small will always swarm to beat Big.

Rock. Paper. Scissors.

It will never not be true in some form or another.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

16. Re: New GeForce Drivers and GTX 1080 Ti Reviews Mar 18, 2017, 13:27 jdreyer
 
VaranDragon wrote on Mar 18, 2017, 04:56:
jdreyer wrote on Mar 18, 2017, 04:47:

Speaking of capital ship combat, I thought The Expanse had a pretty good read on how space combat might unfold, even if I had a few nits to pick.

The second season is even better than the first. Better yet, if you enjoy reading, get the original novels the series is based on. It's still space opera, but the writing is great, the characters even better, and the science fiction is pretty hardcore, at least up until the point where it stops being the primary focus of the series. (As with any good fiction, the setting is not the primary draw).

Yeah, I have that series on my shortlist.
 
Avatar 22024
 



The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

15. Re: New GeForce Drivers and GTX 1080 Ti Reviews Mar 18, 2017, 04:56 VaranDragon
 
jdreyer wrote on Mar 18, 2017, 04:47:

Speaking of capital ship combat, I thought The Expanse had a pretty good read on how space combat might unfold, even if I had a few nits to pick.

The second season is even better than the first. Better yet, if you enjoy reading, get the original novels the series is based on. It's still space opera, but the writing is great, the characters even better, and the science fiction is pretty hardcore, at least up until the point where it stops being the primary focus of the series. (As with any good fiction, the setting is not the primary draw).
 
Avatar 58327
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

14. Re: New GeForce Drivers and GTX 1080 Ti Reviews Mar 18, 2017, 04:47 jdreyer
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Mar 18, 2017, 01:35:
There are lot of "ifs" to overcome but let's say humanity does end up in space and space travel becomes as bog standard as automobile travel currently is.

When it comes to war, as descender rightly said, there will be no dogfighting. However, I disagree with his scale.

Space warefare will necessarily be between capital ships solely and they will not be fought at hundreds of miles, or thousands of miles but will be at tens of thousands of miles or greater distances. Space is fucking vast, even within our own solar system.

It will also be a lot like submarine warfare is currently. You will have extremely sensitive passive sensors looking for emitting radiation while you do your damndest to emit as little radiation of your own as possible. Heat will be an obvious one but anything in the EM spectrum will be another. I would also assume mass will be as well as space is virtually empty and anything with decent mass will stick out like a sore thumb. Also, you can forget Star Trek and the like. Ships will be automated with manned ships being few and far between. You can build a much smaller ship when you don't have to account for squishy meatbags and their biological needs. Ships that will be manned are going to be huge, larger than the island of Manhattan, because, again, squishy meatbags and their biological needs and those trips will be long duration missions. A decade or longer if you're talking about going out to the edge of the planetary boundaries of the solar system.

The reason for that is relativistic travel. Sure, light travels fast, but how do you get up to even a fraction of c? You can cheat it with Alcubierre's Theory but that is going to made of unobtanium and fueled by areyoukiddingite. In short, we simply do not yet possess the power technology capable of generating that much power, that quickly, storing it, and passing it safely from where it's stored/generated to where it needs to be used. Think about it, it's taken us how long to go from simple, weak acid batteries to lithium-ion technology? A couple of thousand years. We're currently stuck on Lion tech because we can't mass produce anything better.

That also leads us to the problem of energy based weapons. We lack the power to generate them to the point they'd be feasible, we don't have the ability to focus them to the point where dispersal is a non-issue, and the minute you fire one off, you just set off a flare telling everyone in a wide radius where you are.

More than likely, we'll stick to ballistic weaponry such as rail guns and missiles for the foreseeable future. Those just require intercept plot points and something the size of the human head will be hard to track but really fuck up anything it comes across when it's traveling at a fair clip. Missiles can be launched in the same manner and only activate guidance and propulsion systems when they're near the intercept point so that they're feasible as a strike weapon.

Yes, I think way too much about this.

Also depends on the era we're talking about. A few hundred years from now, fragile ships will be duking it out with rail guns at ranges of 100s or maybe 1000s of miles. A few thousand years, assuming we haven't modified our genome to the point where war no longer happens, ranges will be 10s or 100s of thousands of miles and energy weapons will be de rigueur, but ships should be pretty tough.

Speaking of capital ship combat, I thought The Expanse had a pretty good read on how space combat might unfold, even if I had a few nits to pick.
 
Avatar 22024
 



The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

13. Re: New GeForce Drivers and GTX 1080 Ti Reviews Mar 18, 2017, 01:35 Burrito of Peace
 
There are lot of "ifs" to overcome but let's say humanity does end up in space and space travel becomes as bog standard as automobile travel currently is.

When it comes to war, as descender rightly said, there will be no dogfighting. However, I disagree with his scale.

Space warefare will necessarily be between capital ships solely and they will not be fought at hundreds of miles, or thousands of miles but will be at tens of thousands of miles or greater distances. Space is fucking vast, even within our own solar system.

It will also be a lot like submarine warfare is currently. You will have extremely sensitive passive sensors looking for emitting radiation while you do your damndest to emit as little radiation of your own as possible. Heat will be an obvious one but anything in the EM spectrum will be another. I would also assume mass will be as well as space is virtually empty and anything with decent mass will stick out like a sore thumb. Also, you can forget Star Trek and the like. Ships will be automated with manned ships being few and far between. You can build a much smaller ship when you don't have to account for squishy meatbags and their biological needs. Ships that will be manned are going to be huge, larger than the island of Manhattan, because, again, squishy meatbags and their biological needs and those trips will be long duration missions. A decade or longer if you're talking about going out to the edge of the planetary boundaries of the solar system.

The reason for that is relativistic travel. Sure, light travels fast, but how do you get up to even a fraction of c? You can cheat it with Alcubierre's Theory but that is going to made of unobtanium and fueled by areyoukiddingite. In short, we simply do not yet possess the power technology capable of generating that much power, that quickly, storing it, and passing it safely from where it's stored/generated to where it needs to be used. Think about it, it's taken us how long to go from simple, weak acid batteries to lithium-ion technology? A couple of thousand years. We're currently stuck on Lion tech because we can't mass produce anything better.

That also leads us to the problem of energy based weapons. We lack the power to generate them to the point they'd be feasible, we don't have the ability to focus them to the point where dispersal is a non-issue, and the minute you fire one off, you just set off a flare telling everyone in a wide radius where you are.

More than likely, we'll stick to ballistic weaponry such as rail guns and missiles for the foreseeable future. Those just require intercept plot points and something the size of the human head will be hard to track but really fuck up anything it comes across when it's traveling at a fair clip. Missiles can be launched in the same manner and only activate guidance and propulsion systems when they're near the intercept point so that they're feasible as a strike weapon.

Yes, I think way too much about this.
 
Avatar 21247
 



"No matter where you go, there you are." Buckaroo Banzai
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

12. Re: New GeForce Drivers and GTX 1080 Ti Reviews Mar 17, 2017, 17:19 descender
 
a hard science-fiction based multiplayer space combat simulator
fantasy

Anything involving space dogfighting is automatically "fantasy". They seem to have forgotten they are a making a fantasy game and marketed themselves as a space combat simulator, though. That would make it "not OK".

If they released a game called "Medieval England Castle Simulator" with dragons and magic and shit... same problem.

Is it so egregious that I desire something a little more intelligent? I'm sorry that bothers you so much... but "whatever" would perfectly sum up my feelings about it too.
 
Avatar 56185
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

11. Re: New GeForce Drivers and GTX 1080 Ti Reviews Mar 17, 2017, 17:19 Eirikrautha
 
descender wrote on Mar 17, 2017, 15:37:
I wonder how far along our technology has to progress before the general public will understand that "space dogfighting" is not and will never be a thing.
Neither are wizards. It's called a game, and it's primary purpose is to be fun. And some people have fun dogfighting...
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

10. Re: New GeForce Drivers and GTX 1080 Ti Reviews Mar 17, 2017, 17:09 Flatline
 
descender wrote on Mar 17, 2017, 15:37:
I wonder how far along our technology has to progress before the general public will understand that "space dogfighting" is not and will never be a thing.

So regular fantasy with elves and dragons and shit is okay but sci-fi fantasy is bullshit and too much?

Whatever...
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

9. Re: New GeForce Drivers and GTX 1080 Ti Reviews Mar 17, 2017, 17:05 descender
 
Well... "we" understand it... but not enough of "we" that stops developers from selling this stupid fantasy to the public.

That being said, we still enjoy playing WW2 fighter games, even though the last time the USA had a gun kill was 25 years ago.

Yeah, but at least the WW1/2 dogfights were a thing that actually happened. I just don't appreciate the complete disregard for orbital physics in "hardcore space sim bulshitbullshitbullshit flight simulators". :p

Addendumn: Space "combat" is going to be a horrifying blend of extremely high-energy, extremely small non-explosive projectiles (like a bowling ball traveling at a fraction of the speed of light) and energy based weapons that you can't even see coming that can be launched from half a solar system away. Space combat maneuvers are going to involve staying as far the fuck away from whatever shit you are attacking as possible and hiding behind planets/moons/gravity wells... Whatever you are attacking will either be long dead before you get there, or you will.
 
Avatar 56185
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

8. Re: New GeForce Drivers and GTX 1080 Ti Reviews Mar 17, 2017, 16:28 jdreyer
 
descender wrote on Mar 17, 2017, 15:37:
I wonder how far along our technology has to progress before the general public will understand that "space dogfighting" is not and will never be a thing.

I think we already understand that. Assuming we haven't overcome our warlike tendencies by the time we are regularly traversing among the planets, capital ships would dominate space navies. Fighter type ships would lack the armor, weaponry, and range except in perhaps very special circumstances.

The analogy for actual space navies in a few hundred years won't be aircraft vs. naval ships. It will be naval ships vs. naval ships. Imagine a modern navy doing battle on a perfectly flat ocean (no hiding behind the curvature of the earth) with hyper accurate standoff weapons with ranges of hundreds of miles. Now imagine trying to take on a Ticonderoga class frigate or Zumwalt class destroyer with a speedboat. How would that little speed boat fair against mach 3 antiship missiles?

That being said, we still enjoy playing WW2 fighter games, even though the last time the USA had a gun kill was 25 years ago.
 
Avatar 22024
 



The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

7. Re: Morning Crowdfunding Roundup Mar 17, 2017, 16:14 jdreyer
 
Orogogus wrote on Mar 17, 2017, 14:29:
Aren't you pretty deadset against multiplayer-only games?

Derp. I am. Yeah I commented before my morning coffee. You're right. Won't be backing unless there's an offline AI mode.
 
Avatar 22024
 



The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

6. Re: New GeForce Drivers and GTX 1080 Ti Reviews Mar 17, 2017, 15:37 descender
 
I wonder how far along our technology has to progress before the general public will understand that "space dogfighting" is not and will never be a thing.  
Avatar 56185
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

5. Re: Morning Crowdfunding Roundup Mar 17, 2017, 15:34 VaranDragon
 
Im afraid people are so jaded with Chris Roberts and his Star Citizen con, that this is going to end up dead in the water.  
Avatar 58327
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

4. Re: Morning Crowdfunding Roundup Mar 17, 2017, 14:29 Orogogus
 
Aren't you pretty deadset against multiplayer-only games?  
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

3. Re: Morning Crowdfunding Roundup Mar 17, 2017, 14:06 jdreyer
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Mar 17, 2017, 12:04:
I'd have been a lot more excited if this was about The Last Starfighter.

The engine seems custom made for it. I'm sure there will be a mod for that.
 
Avatar 22024
 



The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

2. Re: Morning Crowdfunding Roundup Mar 17, 2017, 14:03 jdreyer
 
I'm tempted to back this. Jack Mamais has an impressive pedigree, having worked on games such as MW2: Mercenaries, Heavy Gear 2, Far Cry, and Crysis. And David Wessman worked on X-Wing, Tie Fighter, and the underrated Riddick: Escape from Butcher's Bay.

And it looks like they've got a good start.
 
Avatar 22024
 



The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

1. Re: Morning Crowdfunding Roundup Mar 17, 2017, 12:04 Burrito of Peace
 
I'd have been a lot more excited if this was about The Last Starfighter.  
Avatar 21247
 



"No matter where you go, there you are." Buckaroo Banzai
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
19 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 ] Older >