Even when cable modems first came out (1 to 10 mbps) 7ms ping was achievable. However to see a 7ms ping indicated you had to also have a 7ms video frametime (143 fps) as the games would only poll latency once per video frame, though issuing a ping command you could see the actual ping. I'm not sure why connections with low bandwidth (such as dialup) had high latency as it's theoretically possible to have low bandwidth and low latency. Maybe it had something to do with the switching speed of the phone company's network.

Ya they'd better have many servers spread out all over to yield as low latency as possible to all users.

YourNick wrote on Mar 15, 2017, 09:24:
Well even a trillion trillion bits per second won't fix latency. Bandwidth (mbps) is how much data gets there once it gets there, latency (ms) is how long it takes to get there.

Absolutely. My intended meaning was simply to say the odds of a 100 Mbps having high latency is rare. My connection speed for example typically hovers around 7ms ping. Of course, if Sony PS Now servers are hosted on the east coast then my latency on the west coast would be higher. However, I'm going to conclude PS Now runs on a distributed cloud infrastructure like Amazon Web Services or Akamai to ensure good ping times all around. They have to, or else people would cancel their subscriptions.

Well even a trillion trillion bits per second won't fix latency. Bandwidth (mbps) is how much data gets there once it gets there, latency (ms) is how long it takes to get there.

YourNick wrote on Mar 15, 2017, 01:43:
It's not just latency like in say multiplayer games that can be sort of be "smoothed over" using client-side prediction. Everything is lagged. Panning the screen in RTSs is lagged, moving a cursor is lagged, you name it, it is lagged. Even in single player games!

I have 100 Mbps fiber up and down. I can stream 4K videos on Youtube with little or no buffering time. 5 Mbps is practically nothing. An average ISP is typically going to offer 20-30 Mbps. You shouldn't have an issue with 5.

I noticed that bandwidth has jumped by leaps and bounds over the years, but I can't say latency has changed much at all really, pretty much the same as it was 2 decades ago, at least with broadband connections like cable modems. We can really use some faster than light subspace communication! http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Subspace_communication

YourNick wrote on Mar 15, 2017, 01:43:
It's not just latency like in say multiplayer games that can be sort of be "smoothed over" using client-side prediction. Everything is lagged. Panning the screen in RTSs is lagged, moving a cursor is lagged, you name it, it is lagged. Even in single player games!

What you're talking about is exactly latency. Like I said, it depends on your distance from their servers; if you're close enough the latency is bearable. But beyond a certain point there's nothing they can did to get that information to you you faster without breaking the laws of physics.

It's not just latency like in say multiplayer games that can be sort of be "smoothed over" using client-side prediction. Everything is lagged. Panning the screen in RTSs is lagged, moving a cursor is lagged, you name it, it is lagged. Even in single player games!

Creston wrote on Mar 13, 2017, 20:44:
Ignoring the fact that it's still GaiKai, and still terrible technology, it's cool that they're expanding it to PS4 games.

It's not terrible technology, it works well enough IF you're close enough to a server location to not notice the latency, that said some people are luckier than others.

Unfortunately this is a hard truth about streaming, no matter the bandwidth you have, there will ALWAYS be noticeable latency at distant clients. You just can't go faster than the speed of light. Local gaming will always trump it.

No problem. Another tell tale sign is the fact that it can run on smart TVs, which typically don't have beefy hardware to run 'involved' games locally.
Judging by the Netflix requirements
https://help.netflix.com/en/node/306
I suppose 5mbps would get HD using the same or similar codec Netflix uses.

YourNick wrote on Mar 14, 2017, 21:02:
An emulator runs the game code locally. PS Now appears to simply have a client send controller input, run the game code remotely, then send the resulting video back to you. The 5mbps requirement is a tell tale sign.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emulator
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_gaming#Cloud_gaming_services

Noted. Thanks for clarifying. I wouldn't have an issue with the bandwidth.

An emulator runs the game code locally. PS Now appears to simply have a client send controller input, run the game code remotely, then send the resulting video back to you. The 5mbps requirement is a tell tale sign.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emulator
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_gaming#Cloud_gaming_services

YourNick wrote on Mar 14, 2017, 10:58:
Not only do you have a big input to display latency, but it's also a bandwidth waste sending high res video data when there should be no need. Save that bandwidth for video services like YouTube and Netflix.

Why don't they just make an emulator for the PC?

They do. You play PS3/PS4 games from SONY's library through their PS Now app.

https://www.playstation.com/en-us/explore/psnow/devices/
+ Compatible Windows PC
+ DUALSHOCK 4 Wireless Controller with USB mini cable
+ PlayStation Network account
+ Current PS Now Subscription or 7-Day Free Trial (credit card required)
+ 5Mbps or greater internet connection

The bandwidth is required so the stream can remain stable to allow play while the game downloads in the background. This is very similar to what Blizzard does with WOW. I wish Valve would implement this on Steam.

Not only do you have a big input to display latency, but it's also a bandwidth waste sending high res video data when there should be no need. Save that bandwidth for video services like YouTube and Netflix.

Why don't they just make an emulator for the PC?

My PS4 bud's have been bugging me to buy a PS4 to play Destiny with them. To bad, so far, that PS Now doesn't provide Destiny as one of the available games in the current library. That would probably get me to try it out at least. Maybe in the future.

Slick wrote on Mar 14, 2017, 04:57:
Oh sick burn bro. Sick burn indeed good chap.

Especially because I was questioning my own story in my own post, how arrogant of me. Sick indeed.

Don't you mean "Slick indeed?"

Luke wrote on Mar 14, 2017, 03:57:

Slick wrote on Mar 13, 2017, 22:36:

saluk wrote on Mar 13, 2017, 22:32:
My friend has played numerous PS3 games on his PS4 to completion. Sniper Elite, Bioshock Infinite, Last of Us, Uncharted. Sure, it's not as good as native media, but it's pretty darn close. For the price of a controller and a reasonable content subscription I can play FF15 now rather than wait for a bad port, and horizon dawn at all. (Assuming those games will be on the service)

Wait, FFXV wasn't released on PS3, I thought that this PS Now service is only PS1, 2, and 3? It's not going to some out on this service... at least not until the PS5 comes out.

Wait you THOUGHT......how about knowing before opening your mouth...easy to play the "basher" on others...gezz

Oh sick burn bro. Sick burn indeed good chap.

Especially because I was questioning my own story in my own post, how arrogant of me. Sick indeed.

Slick wrote on Mar 13, 2017, 22:36:

saluk wrote on Mar 13, 2017, 22:32:
My friend has played numerous PS3 games on his PS4 to completion. Sniper Elite, Bioshock Infinite, Last of Us, Uncharted. Sure, it's not as good as native media, but it's pretty darn close. For the price of a controller and a reasonable content subscription I can play FF15 now rather than wait for a bad port, and horizon dawn at all. (Assuming those games will be on the service)

Wait, FFXV wasn't released on PS3, I thought that this PS Now service is only PS1, 2, and 3? It's not going to some out on this service... at least not until the PS5 comes out.

Wait you THOUGHT......how about knowing before opening your mouth...easy to play the "basher" on others...gezz

Caladell wrote on Mar 13, 2017, 22:49:

Kxmode wrote on Mar 13, 2017, 21:41:
Conditions Apply: You need

- a free Sony Entertainment Network account,
- PlayStation Now-compatible device (including compatible Windows PC or PS4),
- a compatible DualShock®4 controller,
- 5Mbs or greater broadband Internet connection,

"including compatible Windows PC or PS4." Does this mean I don't need to buy a PS4? The "or" implies this.

You don't need a PS4. It's just that the service can be used on a PS4.

Wait. So I can buy and play PS4 games on my PC through the PS Now service?! Really? Well, that's amazing if true. There's a huge library of exclusives I'd like to play beginning with Final Fantasy 15. Please don't crush my excitement.

Edit: And of course my excitement was crushed. The 450+ line-up doesn't include these games I'd like to play.

- Final Fantasy titles (really bummed about this)
- Kingdom Hearts titles
- Ridge Racer titles
- Gran Turismo titles
- WipEout Omega Collection

Though I am happy to see:

- Beyond: Two Souls
- Katamari Forever
- The Last of Us (with Left Behind)
- Uncharted: Drake’s Fortune
- Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
- Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception - Game of the Year Edition

I think this service is a mixed bag. I don't believe the service is worth $20. $10 to $15 sounds better.

This comment was edited on Mar 14, 2017, 02:52.

There is a 7 day free trial so I'll give it a whirl at some point if only to check out Teh Last of Us and RDR one more time. They're not really forthcoming with any pertinent info. Doesn't mention bandwith requirements anywhere - so I searched and it's 5mbps min, tho most peole seem to think you need a lot more than that. And it doesn't state if the prices $20 per month/$45 for 3/$100 for 12 is in Freedom dollars or not.

Oh, I just read that passage, yeah, they're going to start testing PS4 games, that's good. It will probably be the new repository for the free AAA games you used to get with PS Plus (MP sub service), seeing as they haven't really released any AAA games for free that way so far on the PS4 (PS3 had many AAA titles for free on PS Plus), it's been 99% indy games for free each month.

My point is, I wouldn't hold my breath that FFXV or Horizon Zero Dawn will appear on the service anytime in the next 4 years. They still haven't released the one decent launch title, Infamous Second Son as a free title on the PS Plus subscription.