John Carmack Sues ZeniMax

Oculus CTO John Carmack is suing his former employer ZeniMax for $22.5 million he says he is still owed by the company from its purchase of id Software. Carmack was at the center of a contentious case over VR technology that resulted in Zenimax winning a $500M judgment from Oculus, and he says the refusal to pay him his due is "sour grapes. Dallas News (thanks Kotaku) has the text of the suit and offer this outlook:
The lawsuit filed by Carmack says that ZeniMax won't pay the remaining sum for id Software because of the intellectual property lawsuit -- but it notes that the jury did not find Carmack liable for misappropriation of trade secrets or copyright infringement.

"ZeniMax's invocation of the same alleged acts that it just went to trial on is an exercise in bad faith and distraction, not a legitimate basis to avoid paying the money it owes from its purchase of id Software," the lawsuit says.
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48.
 
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax
Mar 10, 2017, 19:51
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Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax Mar 10, 2017, 19:51
Mar 10, 2017, 19:51
 
Acleacius wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 19:35:
Can't comment about facebook, since I've never joined or ever used social media, outside forums. Iirc, facebook is in the middle of a shitstorm atm, so having money might not actually help them.
Congrats! We are a rare breed.

No one I have ever asked in IRL hadn't at least created a Facebook account. As for whatever shitstorm they are facing currently, I'm sure they have enough money to deal with it.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
47.
 
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax
Mar 10, 2017, 19:35
47.
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax Mar 10, 2017, 19:35
Mar 10, 2017, 19:35
 
Bundy wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 09:53:
Acleacius wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 01:30:
It's hard to decide who to support in this carmack seems to be a complete and arrogant asshat. Iirc, it was around Quake III when he said he didn't care what his customers/fans wanted, he makes what he wants to.

I know more than a few game devs, and all of them consider their personal projects to be works of art (whether they're good or not). As such all of them share this attitude, they're making the game they want to play. Not the game you want them to make for you. It's your choice whether you want to play it or not, but that's it.

EDIT: I wonder at what point this whole thing gets annoying enough to facebook that they just buy Zenimax outright. The company is worth about 2.5 bn, according to a quick google search. That's less than facebook's last quarterly profit.
I disagree completely or maybe you just know sucky developers. Also if you think he considers his work art, I might lmao. Kickstarter, not to mention all the competition in different genre of games, necessitates good customer relations. His constant personal arrogance has led to id's fall, as I mentioned with previous examples, pre Doom III and beyond. Remember before zeni bought them, id games were repetitive, uninspiring, but had potential. Rage for example, horrible engine poorly executed development, average on foot missions, poor ending and terrible character dialog but strong driving missions.

Can't comment about facebook, since I've never joined or ever used social media, outside forums. Iirc, facebook is in the middle of a shitstorm atm, so having money might not actually help them.
A truck is not a speech.A horn is not a voice.Occupation is not a protest.A blockade is not freedom,it blocks the liberty of all.
A demand to overthrow a government is not a dialogue.Expression of hate is not a difference of opinion.A lie is not the truth
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46.
 
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax
Mar 10, 2017, 19:29
46.
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax Mar 10, 2017, 19:29
Mar 10, 2017, 19:29
 
Agent-Zero wrote on Mar 9, 2017, 20:36:
some people got to have it

brother can you spare a dime?
Avatar 17249
45.
 
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax
Mar 10, 2017, 17:17
45.
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax Mar 10, 2017, 17:17
Mar 10, 2017, 17:17
 
Agent-Zero wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 14:35:
RedEye9 wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 14:19:
El Pit wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 02:39:
Agent-Zero wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 01:21:
i also pirate the fuck out of whatever i want as well

While it is good that you are reporting yourself, this is the wrong place for this. Please go to a nearby police station and tell them that you steal things. Better don't add those f-bombs in combination with "corps", or they might send you to a psychiatric hospital instead of just filing your report.

Hm... Then again... Maybe you should. It might help you.
and /thread

It amazes me how people relabel theft and think it's OK because reasons...

Derp
Wakes up on the wrong side of the bed and tries to be edgy and fit in, fails miserably at both.

- At this point, Windows is the OS equivalent of Stockholm Syndrome. -
Burrito of Peace
Avatar 58135
44.
 
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax
Mar 10, 2017, 17:16
44.
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax Mar 10, 2017, 17:16
Mar 10, 2017, 17:16
 
Poor Carmack...I am sure he rues the day he unloaded id on Zenimax...but when you deal with the devil...Too bad he couldn't have found a better buyer for ID--might have had to sell the company for less but it beats the attitude Zenimax has always held towards Carmack--as if he was their personal property. But I imagine that without getting a piece of Carmack the purchase of id software would have been far less attractive--maybe the only way Carmack could sell it at all, who knows? The $500M judgment seems absurd on the face of it--Oculus hasn't sold nearly that much inventory and is a long way from being profitable, so where do the damages come in? The basis for the Zenimax claim is anything but clear...;)
It is well known that I cannot err--and so, if you should happen across an error in anything I have written you can be absolutely sure that *I* did not write it!...;)
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43.
 
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax
Mar 10, 2017, 15:54
43.
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax Mar 10, 2017, 15:54
Mar 10, 2017, 15:54
 
I have no fucking idea who is right and wrong in this.
Avatar 17232
42.
 
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax
Mar 10, 2017, 15:42
42.
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax Mar 10, 2017, 15:42
Mar 10, 2017, 15:42
 
RedEye9 wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 14:19:
El Pit wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 02:39:
Agent-Zero wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 01:21:
i also pirate the fuck out of whatever i want as well

While it is good that you are reporting yourself, this is the wrong place for this. Please go to a nearby police station and tell them that you steal things. Better don't add those f-bombs in combination with "corps", or they might send you to a psychiatric hospital instead of just filing your report.

Hm... Then again... Maybe you should. It might help you.
and /thread

It amazes me how people relabel theft and think it's OK because reasons...

A rose by any other name is still a rose.
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Mar 10, 2017, 14:35
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removed Mar 10, 2017, 14:35
Mar 10, 2017, 14:35
 
* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on Mar 10, 2017, 17:29.
40.
 
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax
Mar 10, 2017, 14:19
40.
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax Mar 10, 2017, 14:19
Mar 10, 2017, 14:19
 
El Pit wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 02:39:
Agent-Zero wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 01:21:
i also pirate the fuck out of whatever i want as well

While it is good that you are reporting yourself, this is the wrong place for this. Please go to a nearby police station and tell them that you steal things. Better don't add those f-bombs in combination with "corps", or they might send you to a psychiatric hospital instead of just filing your report.

Hm... Then again... Maybe you should. It might help you.
and /thread

It amazes me how people relabel theft and think it's OK because reasons...

- At this point, Windows is the OS equivalent of Stockholm Syndrome. -
Burrito of Peace
Avatar 58135
39.
 
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax
Mar 10, 2017, 10:21
39.
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax Mar 10, 2017, 10:21
Mar 10, 2017, 10:21
 
sauron wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 09:25:
I wish Carmack and Zenimax would just settle this and get on with making great games. This can't be good for the health of either side, it makes both sides look awful, and it's got to be bad for creativity and for business. The only winners here are their attorneys.

TLDR: they need to grow up, settle, then get along, and get back to what they do best.
22.5 mio. dollar is nothing to Zenimax. This will not even in the slightest influence the game developement or publishing process of ongoing and upcoming projects.

22.5 mio. dollar may be a nice sum for someone like John Carmack, but he is already a rich man. He doesnt need it, he can afford to calmly sue his former employer.
38.
 
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax
Mar 10, 2017, 10:02
38.
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax Mar 10, 2017, 10:02
Mar 10, 2017, 10:02
 
Task wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 08:19:
VaranDragon wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 06:13:

Its amazing that some people actually believe that the people responsible for making and producing brilliant games like Fallout, or Elder Scrolls are actually also the very same people who run the companies they work in, and make business and legal decisions that affect the whole company or corporation as a whole as well as all of their customers.


Well of course. ZeniMax are mainly the suits of Bethesda, not the same. Either way, ZeniMax guaranteed the dumbing down of Fallout by buying it, the franchise is horse manure now. Worse, Mutated Brahmin Shit.

Definitely dumbed down compared to the titles before FO3, but if they sold a turned based combat RPG on consoles in this day and age, it would shutter the series.
37.
 
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax
Mar 10, 2017, 09:53
37.
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax Mar 10, 2017, 09:53
Mar 10, 2017, 09:53
 
Acleacius wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 01:30:
It's hard to decide who to support in this carmack seems to be a complete and arrogant asshat. Iirc, it was around Quake III when he said he didn't care what his customers/fans wanted, he makes what he wants to.

I know more than a few game devs, and all of them consider their personal projects to be works of art (whether they're good or not). As such all of them share this attitude, they're making the game they want to play. Not the game you want them to make for you. It's your choice whether you want to play it or not, but that's it.

EDIT: I wonder at what point this whole thing gets annoying enough to facebook that they just buy Zenimax outright. The company is worth about 2.5 bn, according to a quick google search. That's less than facebook's last quarterly profit.
36.
 
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax
Mar 10, 2017, 09:25
36.
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax Mar 10, 2017, 09:25
Mar 10, 2017, 09:25
 
I wish Carmack and Zenimax would just settle this and get on with making great games. This can't be good for the health of either side, it makes both sides look awful, and it's got to be bad for creativity and for business. The only winners here are their attorneys.

TLDR: they need to grow up, settle, then get along, and get back to what they do best.
Kittens!
Avatar 8692
35.
 
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax
Mar 10, 2017, 09:13
Slick
 
35.
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax Mar 10, 2017, 09:13
Mar 10, 2017, 09:13
 Slick
 
Task wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 08:19:
VaranDragon wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 06:13:

Its amazing that some people actually believe that the people responsible for making and producing brilliant games like Fallout, or Elder Scrolls are actually also the very same people who run the companies they work in, and make business and legal decisions that affect the whole company or corporation as a whole as well as all of their customers.

Well of course. ZeniMax are mainly the suits of Bethesda, not the same. Either way, ZeniMax guaranteed the dumbing down of Fallout by buying it, the franchise is horse manure now. Worse, Mutated Brahmin Shit.

So I'm curious, how have they dumbed down Fallout? Are you talking since the original, or from F3 to F4? I thought that the issue with F4 was that it was too samey to F3. They felt like very similar games to me, did I miss something?
For your transgressions you shall be labeled a shill, called an idiot and anytime you mention facts or disagree with a tribe member you will henceforth be known as a troll. The best you can hope for is that the labels won't haunt your offspring. -RedEye9
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34.
 
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax
Mar 10, 2017, 09:13
34.
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax Mar 10, 2017, 09:13
Mar 10, 2017, 09:13
 
Task wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 08:19:
Well of course. ZeniMax are mainly the suits of Bethesda, not the same. Either way, ZeniMax guaranteed the dumbing down of Fallout by buying it, the franchise is horse manure now. Worse, Mutated Brahmin Shit.

Fallout 4 was a pretty solid game. I doubt ZeniMax had anything to do with the good parts, but it is what it is. Greatest Fallout? Not by any means, but still a good game. Creating a big budget game involves dealing with the suits. I don't think it is ideal either, but please, that was a decent game.
"Remember when you were stalking Charles Kuralt because you thought he dug up your garden?"
"Well, something did!"
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33.
 
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax
Mar 10, 2017, 09:12
33.
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax Mar 10, 2017, 09:12
Mar 10, 2017, 09:12
 
Slick wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 02:02:
You describe EA as "Raping and pillaging with DLC" and "they FORCE you to buy X Y and Z"

Yeah... just like I was FORCED to buy the horse armor in Oblivion Rolleyes

And you don't see the irony when I mention that people seem to treat some publishers different than others.

And if you think that my super scientific study of never hearing ANYONE EVER give two flying fucks about what studio bankrolled a certain movie, and yet EVERY THREAD on this forum that at least mentions EA will have multiple people saying: "I'll never buy any game from EA on principle, even if I like and want to play that game" isn't good enough for you, then congrats, you're living in the bubble.
Nope I get irony and rollseyes too, but once again neither apply except for you. You must have not ever played ME2, because you would know the dlc were characters, who actually contributed to the main story. Since you don't get irony, I'll spell it out. They wrote the story and stripped out character then charged extra to get the complete game.

Unless you actually thought point was about Armor, which would be hilarious. [But not laughing with you, kind of hilarious]. Giggle

NetHead wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 08:09:
Acleacius wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 01:30:
It's hard to decide who to support in this carmack seems to be a complete and arrogant asshat.

He could be, he's also said very stupid things in the past, shockingly so for anyone with even basic technical knowledge about games.

Though none of that should effect him getting what was agreed upon.

They agreed to pay him X amount for his company and haven't yet paid up, yet you're having a hard time reaching a conclusion? If anyone here is having their opinion about this clouded by their feeling of Carmac himself I'd suggest it's you.
I agree, if they do owe, they should pay. My point was never arguing whether he should get money owed to him or not. I was wondering out loud whether I could support either on principle, since several in the thread talked about picking sides.
A truck is not a speech.A horn is not a voice.Occupation is not a protest.A blockade is not freedom,it blocks the liberty of all.
A demand to overthrow a government is not a dialogue.Expression of hate is not a difference of opinion.A lie is not the truth
Avatar 1858
32.
 
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax
Mar 10, 2017, 08:19
32.
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax Mar 10, 2017, 08:19
Mar 10, 2017, 08:19
 
VaranDragon wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 06:13:

Its amazing that some people actually believe that the people responsible for making and producing brilliant games like Fallout, or Elder Scrolls are actually also the very same people who run the companies they work in, and make business and legal decisions that affect the whole company or corporation as a whole as well as all of their customers.

Well of course. ZeniMax are mainly the suits of Bethesda, not the same. Either way, ZeniMax guaranteed the dumbing down of Fallout by buying it, the franchise is horse manure now. Worse, Mutated Brahmin Shit.
Avatar 37119
31.
 
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax
Mar 10, 2017, 08:09
31.
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax Mar 10, 2017, 08:09
Mar 10, 2017, 08:09
 
Acleacius wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 01:30:
It's hard to decide who to support in this carmack seems to be a complete and arrogant asshat.

He could be, he's also said very stupid things in the past, shockingly so for anyone with even basic technical knowledge about games.

Though none of that should effect him getting what was agreed upon.

They agreed to pay him X amount for his company and haven't yet paid up, yet you're having a hard time reaching a conclusion? If anyone here is having their opinion about this clouded by their feeling of Carmac himself I'd suggest it's you.


Malf wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 04:11:
Hot damn, take it to 'em John.

The Zenimax / Bethesda double-team is sickening once you've read a bit into it. Bethesda offer to publish your game, and give you funding milestones to achieve.
When milestone time comes around, no matter if you think you've achieved that milestone or not, Bethesda will claim you haven't and refuse to pay you.
After a couple of these milestones pass you by, you're probably running out of money, so Zenimax swoop in and offer to buy your IP.
It's effectively extortion.
I'm not a fan of Facebook or Zuck, but I sincerely hope they're funding Carmack's legal team in order to drown Bethesda / Zenimax like the rats they are.

Bethesda / Zenimax has pulled that crap a few times, though they don't just try to get that IP, they go for the entire studio.


El Pit wrote on Mar 10, 2017, 02:42:
*sigh* Guys, guys, guys - hey, I want to buy that Ferrari, so I just steal it...

Because that's the same...
30.
 
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax
Mar 10, 2017, 06:13
30.
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax Mar 10, 2017, 06:13
Mar 10, 2017, 06:13
 
Slick wrote on Mar 9, 2017, 21:52:
Wow, lots of Zenimax hate up in hurr.

Remember this sentiment when the next Elder Scrolls game is launched, next Fallout, or that new Quake game.

It's strange how people are able to divorce their feelings from a shitty mega-corp and the studios they own who make the games people love in some instances, but not in others.

it's socially intriguing.

Its amazing that some people actually believe that the people responsible for making and producing brilliant games like Fallout, or Elder Scrolls are actually also the very same people who run the companies they work in, and make business and legal decisions that affect the whole company or corporation as a whole as well as all of their customers.
Avatar 58327
29.
 
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax
Mar 10, 2017, 05:11
29.
Re: John Carmack Sues ZeniMax Mar 10, 2017, 05:11
Mar 10, 2017, 05:11
 
made it ma! top of the world!
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