Send News. Want a reply? Read this. More in the FAQ.   News Forum - All Forums - Mobile - PDA - RSS Headlines  RSS Headlines   Twitter  Twitter
Customize
User Settings
Styles:
LAN Parties
Upcoming one-time events:
Germany 08/31
Chicago, IL USA, IL 10/19

Regularly scheduled events

Morning Mobilization

View
22 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 2 ] Older >

22. Re: Morning Mobilization Mar 9, 2017, 11:19 HorrorScope
 
Right as asked "Why would IBM fabricate data?". There simply could be a partnership where it makes sense to tout it all up. But whatever like I care.

As to others that say "I do work with IBM and I see no macs". Almost assuredly you see a microscopic view as IBM in full, which is around 350K strong. Sort of like a UPS Truck driver thinking he knows all UPS by his singular run. Being fair to ourselves, we wouldn't be able to make a accurate blanket statement with our personal visits and workings with IBM, unless you are at the Enterprise level high-up talking overall deployment. I'm not sure I read that here.

I do agree overall that I don't personally see why you would want to go Apple over PC generally. Shit all the newer boxes are solid state 4x4x1's tacked on the back of the monitor for most users now. We know Win7+ is solid... So you have cheaper and tons more program compatibility with Windows. To me it would be an odd questionable choice, but nunz of mine.
 
Avatar 17232
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
21. Re: Morning Mobilization Mar 9, 2017, 09:05 Avus
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Mar 8, 2017, 17:19:

So you're saying IBM fabricated the data they presented to the conference?

I will see it as... IBM currently have some kind of partnership with Apple. (some "IBM solutions" using Apple products) They need to "advertise" how good these Apple products work with their "IBM solutions" in JAMF - An APPLE USER CONFERENCE.

If IBM in some Microsoft user conference, they will present the "advantage" of using Windows PC as the part of "IBM solutions"

And same with Unix, Linux...
 
Avatar 58298
 
I am not a Mac user unless under duress. - John Carmack
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
20. Re: Morning Mobilization Mar 8, 2017, 20:46 Agent-Zero
 
using Apple in an enterprise environment is generally a nightmare unless its run from the Apple ecosystem itself, i.e. OSX Server (now macOS Server) and while generally thats going to be easier to maintain if you are skilled with IT in general, because its Unix based and you can still push a lot of network customization through kernel extensions and so forth.. but its still not a cakewalk and usually there are less IT/Network guys that are certified on OSX Server to begin with

trying to tie Apple into other Windows servers thru Exchange and so forth is also a fucking nightmare, and while MS Office is usually a big cause of that, the whole iCloud layer of modern Apple stuff just adds far more complexity and bullshit to the whole process

at the end of the day, you would need to start Apple and stay in that ecosystem to really run an enterprise network with any reasonable degree of efficiency and stability.. but yeh, if you do that and you have a good network/IT engineer on staff - it can be far more stable and easy to maintain than Windows, considering how gut level you can get on Apple by just rewriting the system layers themselves to your exact specifications
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
19. Re: Out of the Blue Mar 8, 2017, 20:19 Creston
 
descender wrote on Mar 8, 2017, 16:50:
The IBM/Mac story is a nice story until you realize that they let all of their Mac home users choose to migrate over first, obviously reducing the number of tech calls they were making since they were now using a system they knew how to use. They get to conveniently leave out re-training as part of that deployment cost. They also leave out the part where IBM's infrastructure was built ready to host a mac environment which most offices are not remotely equipped for... There are just entirely too many factors overlooked in that IBM story to actually apply any conclusions to another company. Converting a company from PC to Mac is an absolute nightmare and is definitely not cheaper for anyone involved. Mac's, specifically Macbooks, make sense for developers... and really no one else.

Not only that, but how fucking terrifying was IBM's previous infrastructure? I've worked with dozens of IBM contractors and few, if any, had much good to say about the inner workings of IBM's IT. It was basically described as a grandiose clusterfuck. When an IBM contractor supports an app of yours as SAAS, they typically do it from their own IBM laptops, so if something fucks up, you have to try to fix their shitty hardware. It was rare that I ever saw any of them with anything newer than 3-4 years old.

So yeah, if you go from the absolute administration of hell to one with brand new Macs, it's undoubtedly going to look a lot nicer, and in the short term show up great on your balance sheets.

In any case, good for IBM, they saved some money, so maybe they can stop firing tens of thousands of their people.

In my company, I am fighting hard to get rid of all these Apple pieces of shit. The phones are bad enough.

 
Avatar 15604
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
18. Re: Morning Mobilization Mar 8, 2017, 17:21 Flatline
 
Creston wrote on Mar 8, 2017, 16:13:
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Mar 8, 2017, 11:31:
There are reasons to complain about Macs and about Apple in particular. But IBMs well documented switch to Macs for enterprise resulting in drastically lower total cost of ownership makes it pretty clear that Macs are a viable enterprise computing device. They cost more up front, but they also require vastly less user and technical support, leading to smaller IT budgets overall.

Please. I have ~ 30 users that use Macs, and they open just as many, if not more, tickets as my Windows users do. Their apps are just as shitty as the Windows apps, but now you have to find another way to fix it.

I've also been trying to unlock two iPads where the users forgot their unlock codes, and literally no solution works. They won't go into recovery mode, they won't go into DFU mode, nothing. No combination of arcane button presses works. (And why can't you just boot into a simple menu where you CHOOSE which mode you want? Oh wait, Steve Jobs hated buttons. Ugh.)

I'm taking them to the Apple store tomorrow in the hopes that they can get something done.

"Ready for the enterprise." Uh-huh.

iOS devices are only ready for the enterprise if you buy expensive 3rd party software to manage them.

I nearly flipped my desk when I read that Apple yanked their windows based profile deployment tool for iOS devices and never replaced it.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
17. Re: Morning Mobilization Mar 8, 2017, 17:19 Scottish Martial Arts
 
Ozmodan wrote on Mar 8, 2017, 17:02:
Bullshit! Been supporting PC's and Mac's forever and there is virtually no difference. Most support calls are how to use software not OS problems. My best friend is an IBM'er and they don't even use Macs except for a few pieces of select equipment that require them. Your info is faulty.

So you're saying IBM fabricated the data they presented to the conference?

Look, I will concede to you guys currently working in IT that your anecdotes suggest that IBM's conclusions are faulty. They may well be. On the other hand, my anecdotal experience suggests that their conclusions are reasonable, and the actual data presented by IBM backs that case up. Maybe they're a special case, maybe not. My biases are such that if my employer mandated tomorrow that we were all switching to Windows 10 and we're going to start writing Win32 native apps, I would immediately begin looking for another job. Your guys's biases are such that you're gamers first, enterprise IT support second, and with those priorities, a Mac doesn't offer the performance for the first, and has traditionally been too end-consumer focused for the latter. All I can say for certain is that using Macs seems to be working out for IBM, special case or not, and that my MBP is an ideal mobile workstation for software engineering.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
16. Re: Morning Mobilization Mar 8, 2017, 17:02 Ozmodan
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Mar 8, 2017, 11:42:
Ozmodan wrote on Mar 8, 2017, 11:38:
Huh? Was over at IBM yesterday, not a MAC in sight. I have never heard an IBM'er ever mention Mac's as a replacement for PC's. What koolaid are you drinking?

Top Google hit for "IBM mac savings"

The article enumerates the reasons for lower cost of ownership better than I could, but the bottom line is that they require less man hours to administrate, have fewer security holes, and generate fewer user support tickets. Extend that across an enterprise, and the economic viability of Macs for enterprise becomes clear. As for not seeing a Mac anywhere, IBM's global workforce "only" has 100,000 of them deployed right now.

Bullshit! Been supporting PC's and Mac's forever and there is virtually no difference. Most support calls are how to use software not OS problems. My best friend is an IBM'er and they don't even use Macs except for a few pieces of select equipment that require them. Your info is faulty.

Not only are Macs twice as expensive, good luck finding business software that runs on them. The biggest issue I have in support is Mac users running Windows software because the programs are not supported on native Mac OS.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
15. Re: Out of the Blue Mar 8, 2017, 16:50 descender
 
"Ready for the enterprise." Uh-huh.

Whenever I hear someone talk about Mac's and enterprise I have to roll my eyes, hard. It must be nice to run IT for an office that does all of its' business via email and a web browser. What's that? You need to actually use some CAD/engineering software or have connectivity with your legacy inventory/payroll systems? Well, better not request that MAC just yet... Have privacy compliance to work around like HIPAA? Well, no Mac's for you either...

The IBM/Mac story is a nice story until you realize that they let all of their Mac home users choose to migrate over first, obviously reducing the number of tech calls they were making since they were now using a system they knew how to use. They get to conveniently leave out re-training as part of that deployment cost. They also leave out the part where IBM's infrastructure was built ready to host a mac environment which most offices are not remotely equipped for... There are just entirely too many factors overlooked in that IBM story to actually apply any conclusions to another company. Converting a company from PC to Mac is an absolute nightmare and is definitely not cheaper for anyone involved. Mac's, specifically Macbooks, make sense for developers... and really no one else.
 
Avatar 56185
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
14. Re: Morning Mobilization Mar 8, 2017, 16:47 Flatline
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Mar 8, 2017, 11:31:
There are reasons to complain about Macs and about Apple in particular. But IBMs well documented switch to Macs for enterprise resulting in drastically lower total cost of ownership makes it pretty clear that Macs are a viable enterprise computing device. They cost more up front, but they also require vastly less user and technical support, leading to smaller IT budgets overall.

Working in IT the "vastly less user and technical support" claim is bogus. Apple has not created an idiot proof operating system. They've created a slightly idiot resistant OS. As soon as something goes boom, really digging into mac issues is like pulling teeth.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
13. Re: Morning Mobilization Mar 8, 2017, 16:43 Scottish Martial Arts
 
Creston wrote on Mar 8, 2017, 16:13:
Please. I have ~ 30 users that use Macs, and they open just as many, if not more, tickets as my Windows users do. Their apps are just as shitty as the Windows apps, but now you have to find another way to fix it.

I've also been trying to unlock two iPads where the users forgot their unlock codes, and literally no solution works. They won't go into recovery mode, they won't go into DFU mode, nothing. No combination of arcane button presses works. (And why can't you just boot into a simple menu where you CHOOSE which mode you want? Oh wait, Steve Jobs hated buttons. Ugh.)

I'm taking them to the Apple store tomorrow in the hopes that they can get something done.

"Ready for the enterprise." Uh-huh.

Then take it up with IBM: I'm only repeating the data-supported position they presented when explaining why increasingly they're deploying Macs over PCs. Maybe Macs do make life hell for the IT department, but that's not been IBMs experience, and they're as big a company as they get, and they've presented compelling data to make their case. As a software engineer, I could give a shit about which is easier for IT to support because it's not my job. I just need a Unix-like system to write code on, preferably with more cores, so as to speed up the highly parallelized job that is code compilation, and more memory, to support running multiple VMs for test deployments. For desktops, Linux is fine and I actually prefer it. But for laptops, spotty driver support for proprietary devices on laptops mean Linux wastes too much of my time to be a daily driver. Hence, my laptop is a Mac.

And of course my gaming machine runs Windows.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
12. Re: Morning Mobilization Mar 8, 2017, 16:27 BIGtrouble77
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Mar 8, 2017, 12:28:
Timmeh wrote on Mar 8, 2017, 12:17:
Said the crack smoking apple employee

Lol, Google engineering employee actually. On my team, our workstations all run Goobuntu (Google's custom version of Ubuntu), and our laptops are all... 15" MacBook Pros, with a few opting for 13" MacBook Airs.
You can just take you high salary, lofty titles, liberal opinions and shove it. Blues is just for us crotchety 40-somethings that build our own PCs and can't imagine why anyone would want a computer that is Unix compliant and optimal for software development, but can't play the latest Doom at 60fps Ultra Settings.
 
Avatar 20018
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
11. Re: Morning Mobilization Mar 8, 2017, 16:13 Creston
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Mar 8, 2017, 11:31:
There are reasons to complain about Macs and about Apple in particular. But IBMs well documented switch to Macs for enterprise resulting in drastically lower total cost of ownership makes it pretty clear that Macs are a viable enterprise computing device. They cost more up front, but they also require vastly less user and technical support, leading to smaller IT budgets overall.

Please. I have ~ 30 users that use Macs, and they open just as many, if not more, tickets as my Windows users do. Their apps are just as shitty as the Windows apps, but now you have to find another way to fix it.

I've also been trying to unlock two iPads where the users forgot their unlock codes, and literally no solution works. They won't go into recovery mode, they won't go into DFU mode, nothing. No combination of arcane button presses works. (And why can't you just boot into a simple menu where you CHOOSE which mode you want? Oh wait, Steve Jobs hated buttons. Ugh.)

I'm taking them to the Apple store tomorrow in the hopes that they can get something done.

"Ready for the enterprise." Uh-huh.
 
Avatar 15604
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
10. Re: Morning Mobilization Mar 8, 2017, 15:00 Armengar
 
Another sysadmin here and a vote against macs. We had ipads and the hardest thing to do was transfer videos and photos from the tablet to a pc or another mac. Syncing was jot what they eanted as that brought loads of junk to their area (communal tablets). Using standalone cameras they simply used it as a USB device.

The macs didnt use office well, too many crashes so people went back to PCs.
 
Its not the cough that carries you off but the coffin they carry you off in.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
9. Re: Morning Mobilization Mar 8, 2017, 14:01 maddog
 
Our university is fairly married to Microsoft and Active Directory. With Win 7 and 10, our calls have been limited. Dell hardware is not bad and works well. Hard to beat i7's for under $700.

Most of our calls are not directly OS related but rather third party apps and browsers. Usually some old app on campus still uses Java and we need to come up with workarounds for this. Also, apps from medical companies, custom apps and bad websites account for most of our calls.

If it were up to me, I'd move to thin clients and virtualize the whole desktop and simply publish apps to the desktop as they are needed.
 
Avatar 21885
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
8. Re: Morning Mobilization Mar 8, 2017, 12:28 Scottish Martial Arts
 
Timmeh wrote on Mar 8, 2017, 12:17:
Said the crack smoking apple employee

Lol, Google engineering employee actually. On my team, our workstations all run Goobuntu (Google's custom version of Ubuntu), and our laptops are all... 15" MacBook Pros, with a few opting for 13" MacBook Airs.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
7. Re: Morning Mobilization Mar 8, 2017, 12:17 Timmeh
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Mar 8, 2017, 11:42:
Ozmodan wrote on Mar 8, 2017, 11:38:
Huh? Was over at IBM yesterday, not a MAC in sight. I have never heard an IBM'er ever mention Mac's as a replacement for PC's. What koolaid are you drinking?

Top Google hit for "IBM mac savings"

The article enumerates the reasons for lower cost of ownership better than I could, but the bottom line is that they require less man hours to administrate, have fewer security holes, and generate fewer user support tickets. Extend that across an enterprise, and the economic viability of Macs for enterprise becomes clear. As for not seeing a Mac anywhere, IBM's global workforce "only" has 100,000 of them deployed right now.

Said the crack smoking apple employee
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
6. Re: Morning Mobilization Mar 8, 2017, 11:42 Scottish Martial Arts
 
Ozmodan wrote on Mar 8, 2017, 11:38:
Huh? Was over at IBM yesterday, not a MAC in sight. I have never heard an IBM'er ever mention Mac's as a replacement for PC's. What koolaid are you drinking?

Top Google hit for "IBM mac savings"

The article enumerates the reasons for lower cost of ownership better than I could, but the bottom line is that they require less man hours to administrate, have fewer security holes, and generate fewer user support tickets. Extend that across an enterprise, and the economic viability of Macs for enterprise becomes clear. As for not seeing a Mac anywhere, IBM's global workforce "only" has 100,000 of them deployed right now.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
5. Re: Morning Mobilization Mar 8, 2017, 11:38 Ozmodan
 
Huh? Was over at IBM yesterday, not a MAC in sight. I have never heard an IBM'er ever mention Mac's as a replacement for PC's. What koolaid are you drinking?  
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
4. Re: Morning Mobilization Mar 8, 2017, 11:37 HorrorScope
 
The 99-91 must be if you have one in the building anywhere you count. There is no way that many people are using either, not even close.  
Avatar 17232
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
3. Re: Morning Mobilization Mar 8, 2017, 11:32 Ozmodan
 
Well most employees don't get phones from their employers so that number is bogus. Secondly on PC's, I have never seen Mac's deployed ever, just too expensive. So another bogus number.

As to the Mac OS, no different than windows, if fact if you were to use Macs you would have to go into Windows mode for many programs as they won't run under Mac OS.

Sounds like Apple had the study made and paid for it.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
22 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 2 ] Older >


footer

Blue's News logo