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Mr. Tact wrote on Feb 14, 2017, 08:38:I am sticking with a sky wizard having a zombie son. Now that's logic.Kxmode wrote on Feb 14, 2017, 01:20:Sorry can't let this go by... this is exactly backward. Stars create energy through nuclear fusion, normally hydrogen atoms into helium atoms although late in the star's life other atoms are created.
Conversely, if an atom has split the result is a nuclear explosion, which is what makes up most stars in the known universe.All of it is organized. All of it is logical. There is math behind it all. The only conclusion I can come up with is none of it is random, and it must have had a powerful intelligence behind it. The universe and everything in it provide the evidence that God exists even though I cannot see him because "[God's] invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward."So your argument appears to come down to, since things are logical there must be an intelligence behind it. This is not good logic. Many of the things you mentioned have been explained, some haven't. Certainly we don't seem to be close to understanding the nature of Dark Matter or Dark Energy. Although support for Dark Matter being composed of WIMPs seems to be growing.
I agree our situation here on Earth seems overly lucky. The right distance from the galactic center, the right distance from our star, having a single large satellite to stabilize our tilt and rotation. However it makes more sense to me we are here because of those conditions. Not to say, we can't be that lucky someone or something had to have helped. You offer no evidence. You are simply stating interesting scientific information some of which we have very good explanations for, and some of which we have less explanation for.
jdreyer wrote on Feb 14, 2017, 03:58:Yes. Well said.
KX, love you man, but the more you explain, the more it sounds like you're trying to convince yourself, not us.
Kxmode wrote on Feb 14, 2017, 01:20:Sorry can't let this go by... this is exactly backward. Stars create energy through nuclear fusion, normally hydrogen atoms into helium atoms although late in the star's life other atoms are created.
Conversely, if an atom has split the result is a nuclear explosion, which is what makes up most stars in the known universe.
All of it is organized. All of it is logical. There is math behind it all. The only conclusion I can come up with is none of it is random, and it must have had a powerful intelligence behind it. The universe and everything in it provide the evidence that God exists even though I cannot see him because "[God's] invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward."So your argument appears to come down to, since things are logical there must be an intelligence behind it. This is not good logic. Many of the things you mentioned have been explained, some haven't. Certainly we don't seem to be close to understanding the nature of Dark Matter or Dark Energy. Although support for Dark Matter being composed of WIMPs seems to be growing.
Kxmode wrote on Feb 14, 2017, 01:20:
Apologies for the length. A lot to convey.
jdreyer wrote on Feb 13, 2017, 22:44:BobBob wrote on Feb 13, 2017, 17:05:jdreyer wrote on Feb 13, 2017, 16:17:BobBob wrote on Feb 13, 2017, 11:20:
Belief in reality requires a fundamental leap of faith.
Jump out a third story window and get back to me on that.
Parachute, net, bungee cable.
Is faith in reality really required then?
Mr. Tact wrote on Feb 13, 2017, 17:42:
So, what are the objects of your faith and beliefs it would have merit to attack? The bible?
I went back and reread a lot of this topic and I have to say, I'm not sure how we got here. If the discussion is the idea of believing in a "God" there isn't much to attack other than the belief. Did you watch the Ricky Gervais video? He really does hit the nail on the head.
Quboid wrote on Feb 13, 2017, 17:09:
I see Colbert and BobBob's point about faith in science/reality. I haven't personally checked the maths behind E=mc^2 but I believe it to be true because I have faith in the scientific community to get most things right, and to deal with mistakes in a sensible manner. I have faith, but I don't have blind faith because I could check the maths and I have done for many other formulae. No one tells me I shouldn't ask questions, that science works in mysterious ways, or that I need to get past a paywall to learn what Xenu thinks of my Thetan.
I'm being pedantic because I agree with this in spirit, but I don't think that's strictly true. Our understanding of science is sometimes wrong and different errors would occur in the new science books.
BobBob wrote on Feb 13, 2017, 17:05:jdreyer wrote on Feb 13, 2017, 16:17:BobBob wrote on Feb 13, 2017, 11:20:
Belief in reality requires a fundamental leap of faith.
Jump out a third story window and get back to me on that.
Parachute, net, bungee cable.
Kxmode wrote on Feb 13, 2017, 17:06:So, what are the objects of your faith and beliefs it would have merit to attack? The bible?Mr. Tact wrote on Feb 13, 2017, 00:56:Kxmode wrote on Feb 11, 2017, 23:09:"faith and beliefs".. that's the problem. When your argument is based on faith and beliefs, you have no argument. You can have faith and belief in the tooth fairy if you want. And while you are free to believe whatever you desire, and in the US have freedom to speak about it, it doesn't provide any validity to your beliefs other than establishing the existence of those beliefs.
This is a personal attack on my faith and beliefs and has nothing to do with the bible or Christianity.
You do not understand the point. Faith and belief is a part of what makes a person who they are, and it is not just religious in nature. For example, you have "faith and belief" the sun will rise. Why? Well, apparently because the evidence shows it will. People have "faith and hope" that their efforts of saving for retirement will lead to a relatively comfortable life. Decades of examples of people who have achieved this goal would demonstrate this to be so.
On the other hand, the Bible and Christianity are objects of someone's faith and beliefs. That is the difference. Personally attacking someone's faith and belief instead of the objects of them has no merit in a logical discussion. While they are mutually inclusion, they are also separate. I really hope you understand the difference.
descender wrote on Feb 13, 2017, 14:09:
In the end, we only deny the existence of one more god than you do.If you destroyed every holy book in the world and waited a thousand years they wouldn't all come back and be exactly the same. If you destroyed every bit of science we have and waited a thousand years it would all come back exactly the same.
I love this clip. It has to be one of the more concise arguments I've seen highlighting the absurdity of believing in any particular religion.
jdreyer wrote on Feb 12, 2017, 08:01:Kxmode wrote on Feb 12, 2017, 01:14:
Or what it does is similar to people who mention their degrees and PhDs. Primarily it's to let those accusing me of being an ignorant "Xtian" know that when I use the Bible in my messages, it comes from decades of personal study. Just like if you have decades of automotive repair I'm going to defer to your knowledge of the subject.
I think that big difference is that politics affects everyone, while religion affects a much smaller subset and is in decline in the West and in the US.
If Trump had been chosen as pope, maybe we'd be discussing religion a bit more.
Agent-Zero wrote on Feb 12, 2017, 08:14:
of course they mean different things, but if you want to whitewash them and take it out of context then you certainly wont be talking about a "true meaning"
for the first, its an obvious indication of outright rebellion against the social order
for the second, its an obvious indication of apocalyptic judgement of those considered "unworthy" by him or his followers
the actual historical research (from what little can be gathered from cross referenced sources of ancient scribes) makes it clear that the jesus of nazareth was a rabble rouser and one of many many apocalyptic cults of the era, he was not a particularly successful one in his time compared to many other groups he co-existed with ... however as a martyr and symbol of rebellion against rome, his cult endured among the various oppressed and particularly thrived under certain propagandists such as Paul, and was eventually leveraged against these very same "oppressed people" by the Romans in the most classical subversion of all time, eventually resulting in the "Holy Roman Empire" by way of Constantine and the Council of Nicaea
Beamer wrote on Feb 12, 2017, 09:45:
I mean, but you don't have a PhD. I'd trust a PhD in quantum physics before I trusted a guy that home studied as a hobby.
Beamer wrote on Feb 12, 2017, 09:45:
Not to mention, religion is belief based, not fact based. You're coming in with the assumption that there's a big beardo in the sky and he made a virgin pregnant. I reject that, so can reject much of what else you say because it's based upon something I think is incorrect. Much like, if a guy comes to me and says I should listen to him on science because he's read a lot, and global warming isn't real, I'd cut him off there, thank him, and exit the discussion because nothing meaningful would come from it.
Redmask wrote on Feb 12, 2017, 09:52:
Sadly for you, no one cares about the bible or about your feelings for it. I know that hurts because you desperately crave the attention and approval of others but you can't have it. You act like you're owed something because you read an old book and want to pretend to be an authority figure but you're just as useless as a random blog page. You have no authority to speak about religion nor lecture anyone else on it. All that you've demonstrated is a bratty need to steer the conversation toward religion whenever possible, despite previously saying you would not do so. The craven need to tout your own authority and knowledge speaks to deep seeded insecurity that we can't help you with, you're looking for help in the wrong place.
Mr. Tact wrote on Feb 13, 2017, 00:56:Kxmode wrote on Feb 11, 2017, 23:09:"faith and beliefs".. that's the problem. When your argument is based on faith and beliefs, you have no argument. You can have faith and belief in the tooth fairy if you want. And while you are free to believe whatever you desire, and in the US have freedom to speak about it, it doesn't provide any validity to your beliefs other than establishing the existence of those beliefs.
This is a personal attack on my faith and beliefs and has nothing to do with the bible or Christianity.
Verno wrote on Feb 13, 2017, 11:09:Kxmode wrote on Feb 11, 2017, 23:09:
This is what I'm talking about. This is not a discussion. This is a personal attack on my faith and beliefs and has nothing to do with the bible or Christianity. That's why I was saying perhaps the best path forward is for us all not to discuss religion AND politics on a video game site. You wouldn't do it at the table during Thanksgiving (or maybe you would I don't know) I only think it would be good for everyone. So say we all?!
Why should any of us give a shit about your faith? At least when we talk about football, politics and other aspects of life there is some basis in fact. Religious discussion is endless bullshit predicated on a mountain of nonsense like yours. I will attack it as I please when you continually post about it. You can't post public statements then declare them off limits. The same way people go after my political beliefs when I post them here. This is the core problem with religion right here, it's little juveniles like you that declare it to be some unassailable part of their identity yet have no issue annoying everyone else with it constantly.
You want to talk about it? No problem, this thread is a meek example of how that's going to look every time you try on here. When you really piss people off it's going to be way worse.
jdreyer wrote on Feb 13, 2017, 16:17:BobBob wrote on Feb 13, 2017, 11:20:
Belief in reality requires a fundamental leap of faith.
Jump out a third story window and get back to me on that.
descender wrote on Feb 13, 2017, 14:09:Ha! That's great. "You don't believe in 2,999 gods, I don't believe in just one more."
In the end, we only deny the existence of one more god than you do.If you destroyed every holy book in the world and waited a thousand years they wouldn't all come back and be exactly the same. If you destroyed every bit of science we have and waited a thousand years it would all come back exactly the same.