Op Ed

The New York Times -- Super Mario Run’s Not-So-Super Gender Politics. Thanks HARDOCP.
"Mr. Miyamoto told Wired this month that he was more involved with the design of Super Mario Run than that of any Mario game since 2007’s Super Mario Galaxy. That means that the only two Super Mario games that include a playable female character from the start — 1988’s Super Mario Bros. 2 and 2013’s spectacular Super Mario 3D World — were games in which Mr. Miyamoto was not directly involved with the level design.

The world would be a worse place if video game creators were judged only by whether they balanced their games with male and female protagonists. Some of 2016’s best video games, including the interactive drama Firewatch and the disturbing Mario-inspired Inside, are largely about men and boys."

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42 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
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42.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jan 6, 2017, 09:27
Verno
 
42.
Re: Op Ed Jan 6, 2017, 09:27
Jan 6, 2017, 09:27
 Verno
 
Nintendo appears to be doing just fine without updating its games for a "contemporary audience", whatever the fuck that means. I'd also note that most of the recent Nintendo games I've played have female representation anyway.
Playing: Risk of Rain 2, Jedi Fallen Order, Last of Us II
Watching: Tenet, Peninsula, The Pale Door
Avatar 51617
41.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jan 2, 2017, 16:32
Prez
 
41.
Re: Op Ed Jan 2, 2017, 16:32
Jan 2, 2017, 16:32
 Prez
 
I find the OP Ed to be ridiculous; self-serving and completely pointless, but really... you kind of need to ask yourself how a guy telling his daughter that a classic Mario game is somehow misogynist and then bragging about it in a silly article affects your life at all. Why get bent out of shape over something so goofy and meaningless? Agree with it or not, is it really worth getting into an argument and hurling insults at each other over?
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Avatar 17185
40.
 
Re: Into the Black
Jan 2, 2017, 14:54
Quboid
 
40.
Re: Into the Black Jan 2, 2017, 14:54
Jan 2, 2017, 14:54
 Quboid
 
Beamer wrote on Jan 2, 2017, 12:41:
You're really, really reaching to spin his tetras comments in a way that can gleefully confirm your opinion of him.

Someone on Twitter challenged the idea that all art, and therefore games, are political, by pointing out tetris. He then rose to it by reading into the politics of tetras, accurately pointing out that releasing a game in the US with soviet music in the 1980s was politically loaded. Back when anything Russian was heavily demonized.

That's a very neutral thing, and hard to dispute. I'm no kuchera fan, but you're working overdrive to find ways to not challenge your own opinion. The sites that claimed he was saying it would brainwash you or were deliberately made as propaganda are aggressively anti intellectual.

Kuchera got some minor factual details wrong, but AFAIK that's it. Parallax Abstraction, is there more to this?

El Pit, I don't know what your point is. That has nothing to do with what I said.

This comment was edited on Jan 2, 2017, 15:42.
Avatar 10439
39.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jan 2, 2017, 14:22
39.
Re: Op Ed Jan 2, 2017, 14:22
Jan 2, 2017, 14:22
 
Thank you for going full retard and completely proving my point about the similarities between you guys and climate change deniers. I'm amused by your willfull ignorance and look forward to more of your angry shit-throwing ape posts as the world progresses and leaves you behind. Seriously, you may as well be arguing the Earth is flat or the sun revolves around the Earth at this point. Good luck tilting the windmills, you poor soul.

Suppa7 wrote on Jan 2, 2017, 09:14:
sdgundamx wrote on Jan 2, 2017, 07:47:
It's still baffling to me how there are people on this site who want to stick their fingers in their ears and pretend there isn't a problem with character representation in video games (and all media, really).

There isn't, talk about FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS. How about you use that brain and morality to solve actual problems. Where does having girls in videogames fall on the list of worlds most pressing problems?

Reality is your a moralist and a bad one, most people complaining about gender in entertainment are stupid. Just like religious folks and old people claimed rockin roll was the devil and comic books are signs of moral degeneration.

The reality is art is limitless it shouldn't be made to cater to anyone's moral compass.
38.
 
Re: Into the Black
Jan 2, 2017, 12:41
Beamer
 
38.
Re: Into the Black Jan 2, 2017, 12:41
Jan 2, 2017, 12:41
 Beamer
 
Parallax Abstraction wrote on Jan 1, 2017, 14:20:
NegaDeath wrote on Dec 31, 2016, 19:04:
Finding a Mario game offensive is when you know you've hit rock bottom on your crusade. Also, did they just assume Mario's gender? Shameful.

Next the writer will find Tetris shapes to be too phallic.

Ben Kuchera from Polygon already wrote something a while back about how because Tetris was made in communist Russia, playing it is tantamount to endorsing those ideals or something like that.

I think this writer is ridiculous and like most moral crusaders of years past, is trying to make a name for themselves by assuming the world needs to pander to their ridiculous personal hangups. Demanding games change to suit your personal sensibilities (or those of a group you have appointed yourself to represent) is no different than what Jack Thompson did, it's just got a different hat this time.

If a piece of art offends you, you have two options: Don't consume it or make your own that tells what you want it to and make it successful. Whining in an op-ed is the worst kind of slacktivism. But doing real work to invoke change is hard.

You're really, really reaching to spin his tetras comments in a way that can gleefully confirm your opinion of him.

Someone on Twitter challenged the idea that all art, and therefore games, are political, by pointing out tetris. He then rose to it by reading into the politics of tetras, accurately pointing out that releasing a game in the US with soviet music in the 1980s was politically loaded. Back when anything Russian was heavily demonized.

That's a very neutral thing, and hard to dispute. I'm no kuchera fan, but you're working overdrive to find ways to not challenge your own opinion. The sites that claimed he was saying it would brainwash you or were deliberately made as propaganda are aggressively anti intellectual.
37.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Jan 2, 2017, 10:47
El Pit
 
37.
Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 2, 2017, 10:47
Jan 2, 2017, 10:47
 El Pit
 
Quboid wrote on Jan 1, 2017, 17:11:
El Pit, you must have noticed that a few of these people think non-white and/or non-male representation in video games doesn't matter, while clearly thinking it's very important that it doesn't matter. If you haven't, meet Cutter.

There are idiots and murderers in EVERY race, EVERY nation, EVERY religion, BOTH sexes, and so on. The percentage of idiots and killers in each group usually changes over time because of cultural, religious, economical and/or ecological challenges the groups face at that time, but over the centuries and millennia they reach about the same level. That does not help you, of course, if you happen to live in a time where one group is extremely aggressive. Then you have to handle the situation, and if you think that it would be politically incorrect to especially look for e.g. Asian people after you heard that somebody with obviously Asian roots has robbed a shop near you, then you must have totally misunderstood political correctness.


It is difficult and there are no easy solutions no matter what The Donald tells you.
"There is no right life in the wrong one." (Theodor W. Adorno, philosopher)
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes." (Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi)
36.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jan 2, 2017, 09:52
36.
Re: Op Ed Jan 2, 2017, 09:52
Jan 2, 2017, 09:52
 
if you are talking about Japanese society, in which venerable Miyamoto-san was raised and is very much a part of - its pretty well known that womens rights still arent much of a priority - so it seems more likely the writer of this article is just clueless in general
35.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jan 2, 2017, 09:25
Quboid
 
35.
Re: Op Ed Jan 2, 2017, 09:25
Jan 2, 2017, 09:25
 Quboid
 
Suppa7 wrote on Jan 2, 2017, 09:14:
sdgundamx wrote on Jan 2, 2017, 07:47:
It's still baffling to me how there are people on this site who want to stick their fingers in their ears and pretend there isn't a problem with character representation in video games (and all media, really).

There isn't, talk about FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS. How about you use that brain and morality to solve actual problems. Where does having girls in videogames fall on the list of worlds most pressing problems?

Reality is your a moralist and a bad one, most people complaining about gender in entertainment are stupid. Just like religious folks and old people claimed rockin roll was the devil and comic books are signs of moral degeneration.

The reality is art is limitless it shouldn't be made to cater to anyone's moral compass.

So you agree that there is a problem, but you don't think it is as bad as the problems people third world countries typically face?
Avatar 10439
34.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jan 2, 2017, 09:14
34.
Re: Op Ed Jan 2, 2017, 09:14
Jan 2, 2017, 09:14
 
sdgundamx wrote on Jan 2, 2017, 07:47:
It's still baffling to me how there are people on this site who want to stick their fingers in their ears and pretend there isn't a problem with character representation in video games (and all media, really).

There isn't, talk about FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS. How about you use that brain and morality to solve actual problems. Where does having girls in videogames fall on the list of worlds most pressing problems?

Reality is your a moralist and a bad one, most people complaining about gender in entertainment are stupid. Just like religious folks and old people claimed rockin roll was the devil and comic books are signs of moral degeneration.

The reality is art is limitless it shouldn't be made to cater to anyone's moral compass.
33.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jan 2, 2017, 07:47
33.
Re: Op Ed Jan 2, 2017, 07:47
Jan 2, 2017, 07:47
 
It's still baffling to me how there are people on this site who want to stick their fingers in their ears and pretend there isn't a problem with character representation in video games (and all media, really). You guys are like the climate change deniers at this point--you just come off as incredibly insecure and uneducated. And thankfully, much like climate change deniers, you are vastly outnumbered by people who recognize the problem and are proactively working to fix things. Major game companies like Blizzard (with Overwatch) are doing their best to give players a group of characters diverse in ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender, and body types to play with. That trend will continue whether you continue to cover your eyes to avoid seeing the problem or not, so at the end of the day I guess the rest of us get the last laugh.
32.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Jan 1, 2017, 17:11
Quboid
 
32.
Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 1, 2017, 17:11
Jan 1, 2017, 17:11
 Quboid
 
Cutter wrote on Jan 1, 2017, 16:52:
El Pit wrote on Jan 1, 2017, 11:46:
Cpmartins wrote on Jan 1, 2017, 11:41:
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Dec 31, 2016, 23:11:
butthurt middle aged men of bluesnews are gonna butthurt
You forgot "white". Can't skip that one.

Because people with non-european roots respect women's rights better, right?

Well obviously. We're all that's evil in the world, as we're all rich, privileged and have absolutely no problems whatsoever. Everyone else are all paragons of what's good and right in the world.

Or maybe because this board is predominantly made up of middle aged white men? That's true and the obvious meaning to Cpmartins and SMA's posts.

El Pit, you must have noticed that a few of these people think non-white and/or non-male representation in video games doesn't matter, while clearly thinking it's very important that it doesn't matter. If you haven't, meet Cutter.
Avatar 10439
31.
 
Re: Into the Black
Jan 1, 2017, 17:06
Quboid
 
31.
Re: Into the Black Jan 1, 2017, 17:06
Jan 1, 2017, 17:06
 Quboid
 
Parallax Abstraction wrote on Jan 1, 2017, 14:20:
If a piece of art offends you, you have two options: Don't consume it or make your own that tells what you want it to and make it successful. Whining in an op-ed is the worst kind of slacktivism. But doing real work to invoke change is hard.

So only talented and lucky artists can make worthwhile points? Knowledge of the subject doesn't matter?

Setting out your case in an op-ed is a perfectly good way to debate and is not slacktivism, not when it is well written and well researched (at least, I don't see any factual errors). Slacktivism is signing a petition or sharing something on social media and telling yourself you've done something. Writing a column is actually doing something, even if this guy choose to do something stupid.
Avatar 10439
30.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Jan 1, 2017, 16:52
Cutter
 
30.
Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 1, 2017, 16:52
Jan 1, 2017, 16:52
 Cutter
 
El Pit wrote on Jan 1, 2017, 11:46:
Cpmartins wrote on Jan 1, 2017, 11:41:
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Dec 31, 2016, 23:11:
butthurt middle aged men of bluesnews are gonna butthurt
You forgot "white". Can't skip that one.

Because people with non-european roots respect women's rights better, right?

Well obviously. We're all that's evil in the world, as we're all rich, privileged and have absolutely no problems whatsoever. Everyone else are all paragons of what's good and right in the world.
"I didn't know you had it in you. Sorry, poor choice of words." - David
Avatar 25394
29.
 
Re: Into the Black
Jan 1, 2017, 14:46
nin
 
29.
Re: Into the Black Jan 1, 2017, 14:46
Jan 1, 2017, 14:46
 nin
 
Parallax Abstraction wrote on Jan 1, 2017, 14:20:
Ben Kuchera from Polygon

...will write absolutely anything to get clicks, no matter how outrageous or stupid. Avoid that guy like the plague.

28.
 
Re: Into the Black
Jan 1, 2017, 14:20
28.
Re: Into the Black Jan 1, 2017, 14:20
Jan 1, 2017, 14:20
 
NegaDeath wrote on Dec 31, 2016, 19:04:
Finding a Mario game offensive is when you know you've hit rock bottom on your crusade. Also, did they just assume Mario's gender? Shameful.

Next the writer will find Tetris shapes to be too phallic.

Ben Kuchera from Polygon already wrote something a while back about how because Tetris was made in communist Russia, playing it is tantamount to endorsing those ideals or something like that.

I think this writer is ridiculous and like most moral crusaders of years past, is trying to make a name for themselves by assuming the world needs to pander to their ridiculous personal hangups. Demanding games change to suit your personal sensibilities (or those of a group you have appointed yourself to represent) is no different than what Jack Thompson did, it's just got a different hat this time.

If a piece of art offends you, you have two options: Don't consume it or make your own that tells what you want it to and make it successful. Whining in an op-ed is the worst kind of slacktivism. But doing real work to invoke change is hard.
Parallax Abstraction
Podcast | YouTube | Twitch
Avatar 13614
27.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jan 1, 2017, 12:42
Quboid
 
27.
Re: Op Ed Jan 1, 2017, 12:42
Jan 1, 2017, 12:42
 Quboid
 
What do you guys think the reaction would be if a cartoon was made today for young children which took this approach to gender roles? What would be your reaction?

The article is about a 6 year old girl. No one is calling you a hater, NewMaxx, presumably "family-friendly" isn't a concern for you.

This is making a mountain out of a molehill IMHO but it's not completely baseless.
Avatar 10439
26.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Jan 1, 2017, 11:46
El Pit
 
26.
Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 1, 2017, 11:46
Jan 1, 2017, 11:46
 El Pit
 
Cpmartins wrote on Jan 1, 2017, 11:41:
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Dec 31, 2016, 23:11:
butthurt middle aged men of bluesnews are gonna butthurt
You forgot "white". Can't skip that one.

Because people with non-european roots respect women's rights better, right?
"There is no right life in the wrong one." (Theodor W. Adorno, philosopher)
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes." (Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi)
25.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Jan 1, 2017, 11:41
25.
Re: Morning Mobilization Jan 1, 2017, 11:41
Jan 1, 2017, 11:41
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Dec 31, 2016, 23:11:
butthurt middle aged men of bluesnews are gonna butthurt
You forgot "white". Can't skip that one.
24.
 
Re: Morning Legal Briefs
Jan 1, 2017, 11:07
24.
Re: Morning Legal Briefs Jan 1, 2017, 11:07
Jan 1, 2017, 11:07
 
killer_roach wrote on Jan 1, 2017, 01:47:
z3razerviper wrote on Jan 1, 2017, 01:10:
Wow people complain about everything........

There are some that argue that it's an instinctual reaction for some to denigrate the past and the products of past eras in order to signal one's cultural evolution beyond such outdated concepts... but at the same time, signaling one's sophistication is a fool's errand, an attempt to gain points for intelligence that one doesn't possess by appealing to the like-minded.

indeed, attempting to appear intelligent and superior is one of the most common reflexive reactions people have to any situation - especially those who feel they are inferior but refuse to admit it to themselves, which is the default status of most people

the inner truth that people are so frightened of accepting in themselves is one of the most dominant motivational forces in society - its the lifeblood of ignorance
23.
 
Re: Morning Legal Briefs
Jan 1, 2017, 01:47
23.
Re: Morning Legal Briefs Jan 1, 2017, 01:47
Jan 1, 2017, 01:47
 
z3razerviper wrote on Jan 1, 2017, 01:10:
Wow people complain about everything........

There are some that argue that it's an instinctual reaction for some to denigrate the past and the products of past eras in order to signal one's cultural evolution beyond such outdated concepts... but at the same time, signaling one's sophistication is a fool's errand, an attempt to gain points for intelligence that one doesn't possess by appealing to the like-minded.
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