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20.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Dec 14, 2016, 21:15
KS
20.
Re: Morning Mobilization Dec 14, 2016, 21:15
Dec 14, 2016, 21:15
KS
 
Cutter wrote on Dec 14, 2016, 13:20:
Pigeon wrote on Dec 14, 2016, 11:53:
Burrito of Peace wrote on Dec 14, 2016, 11:28:
I read it and it lines up with what I have suspected all along that we, the US, is on the losing side of the "cyberwar".

Our politicians are too clueless to understand the breadth of the problem, and too willing to use the results for political leverage. Honestly they didn't even need the details, just putting forth a vague implication that wrong doing had occurred based on out of context statements. What was actually the worst thing in those emails? Probably Donna Brazile leaking a debate question to Hillary's aide and that was the least focused on aspect.

Exactly if this was going the other way the GOP would be screaming bloody murder for the next 4 years. Ultimately it really doesn't matter than Giant Douche beat Turd Sandwich because they're two sides of the same corporate coin.

It's small consolation, but at least you get Mr. Garrison and Caitlyn Jenner as the president and VP for the next 4 years.

Buckle up, buckaroos!
19.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Dec 14, 2016, 19:04
19.
Re: Morning Mobilization Dec 14, 2016, 19:04
Dec 14, 2016, 19:04
 
NewMaxx wrote on Dec 14, 2016, 18:27:
If you're willing to consider a conspiracy of that magnitude to get Trump elected then I fail to see how you can ignore Hillary's security mis-steps, Pizzagate, or any other "ridiculous" theory.

There's a distinction between "a conspiracy of that magnitude to get Trump elected" and a foreign intelligence operation in the midst of an election. To be clear, I do not think Trump's election was illegitimate. He was elected because just enough people in just enough states voted for him, not because of an Illuminati Grand Conspiracy. However, Trump being legitimately elected does not preclude a foreign intelligence operation to disrupt the election.

Likewise, there is a distinction between the fantastical on the one hand, and a probable assessment inferred from known facts on the other. The former is contradictory, the latter is fallible but reasonable: the conclusion could be wrong, but there is good reason to think it isn't. Pizzagate supposes a child sex ring operated out of the basement of a building which has no basement. In contrast, the reports of Russian intelligence operations to penetrate the DNC and RNC depend upon a chain of evidence, some of which is publicly known and some of which isn't, analyzed by intelligence professionals. It is entirely possible that the CIA and FBI are wrong in their assessment, and likewise it is entirely possible the factual claims made in the previously mentioned NYT article are incorrect. However, if we suppose that the CIA/FBI/etc. are basically competent, and if we suppose that the who/what/where/when factual claims presented in the NYT reporting is basically correct, then we are left with a reasonable argument that the Russians are very likely responsible for the hacking of the DNC and RNC.

It is entirely fair to reject an inference with a probability of 0; it is absurd to reject an inference solely because its probability is less than 1.

This comment was edited on Dec 14, 2016, 19:12.
18.
 
Re: Morning Safety Dance
Dec 14, 2016, 18:38
18.
Re: Morning Safety Dance Dec 14, 2016, 18:38
Dec 14, 2016, 18:38
 
your voice matters! you can make a difference!

you are free! go live the american dream!
17.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Dec 14, 2016, 18:27
17.
Re: Morning Mobilization Dec 14, 2016, 18:27
Dec 14, 2016, 18:27
 
Russia has influenced every modern U.S. election. Technology is besides the point. To the contrary, spycraft was borne of social engineering. The U.S. and especially the CIA has meddled in numerous political battlegrounds in other states and the latter has often acted as counter-intelligence, as well. The fact it's all of a sudden hashtag-worthy where you have people talking about "rogue elements" of the FBI only speaks to the reality that everything is hunky-dory until the candidate all the money was behind loses. Then you pull a "Plan B" and the true elements come out of the woodwork. If you're willing to consider a conspiracy of that magnitude to get Trump elected then I fail to see how you can ignore Hillary's security mis-steps, Pizzagate, or any other "ridiculous" theory. Then again, hypocrisy is a dish best served hot.
16.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Dec 14, 2016, 18:06
16.
Re: Morning Mobilization Dec 14, 2016, 18:06
Dec 14, 2016, 18:06
 
Squirmer wrote on Dec 14, 2016, 17:35:
"Act of war"? Put away the nukes. The US government has spied on everyone, it has intervened in so many other countries' elections, it has militarily intervened in so many countries and caused the deaths of countless people. But we're supposed to be outraged by one Russian hack of a political party that had no provable impact?

This is all just distraction stoked by a febrile media and a political party that can't accept it lost. And what's more it's dangerous distraction.

Fair enough on US spying. However, to your second point, while an impact probably cannot be proved, it can certainly be reasonably inferred. Likewise, this is not a distraction and it's not a matter of refusing to accept a loss. Trump is our President for the next 4 years, barring impeachment. He won narrowly, but he won. The question is: what kind of President is he going to be? Is he going to be a President who rejects intelligence out of hand that doesn't flatter his ego? Is he going to be a President who isn't transparent about his financial/business interests and how they entangle with potentially hostile foreign powers? Is his Republican Congressional majority potentially blackmail-able by Russian intelligence (the CIA and FBI maintain that the RNC was penetrated by Russian intelligence too: what kompromat, if any, were they able to glean from those hacks?) Hopefully there's nothing to these concerns, but we won't know unless the Russian intrusions are thoroughly investigated. Perhaps you're satisfied with Trump dismissing this all out of hand, but his business record suggests that those who place their trust in him, and don't insist on up-front accountability, ultimately end up regretting it.
15.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Dec 14, 2016, 18:02
15.
Re: Morning Mobilization Dec 14, 2016, 18:02
Dec 14, 2016, 18:02
 
Timmeh wrote on Dec 14, 2016, 15:51:
i am braindead
the first step is realizing the problem
14.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Dec 14, 2016, 17:35
14.
Re: Morning Mobilization Dec 14, 2016, 17:35
Dec 14, 2016, 17:35
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Dec 14, 2016, 11:15:
None of you read the article that was cited in that claim did you? At least no one commented in the relevant thread last night: https://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=postmessage&boardid=1&threadid=176985

Whether or not the Russian intrusion actually tipped the election, you cannot read the NYT's story from yesterday afternoon documenting the Russian attacks on our political organizations without coming to the conclusion that this was a plausibly deniable act of war.
"Act of war"? Put away the nukes. The US government has spied on everyone, it has intervened in so many other countries' elections, it has militarily intervened in so many countries and caused the deaths of countless people. But we're supposed to be outraged by one Russian hack of a political party that had no provable impact?

This is all just distraction stoked by a febrile media and a political party that can't accept it lost. And what's more it's dangerous distraction.
13.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Dec 14, 2016, 17:05
13.
Re: Morning Mobilization Dec 14, 2016, 17:05
Dec 14, 2016, 17:05
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Dec 14, 2016, 16:07:
I used to hang out on a forum that had a pretty sizeable Russian population, and it was fascinating watching a subset of that population go all in on Putinism over time. Some of the Russian posters maintained a healthy skepticism of their government, were horrified at the assassination of journalists, saw their government's interventions in the "near abroad" as an attempt to distract from economic stagnation and oligarchic cronyism, etc., but others swallowed it hook, line, and sinker. As Timmeh, and others like him, show, that process seems to be happening much faster with the American right-wing and Trumpism. I'd argue with him, but what would be the point? In his world, there are no verifiable facts, reasonable inference is impossible, anything reported in the media is de facto false, and all information is suspect except for the party line of the glorious leader. Why discuss the specific malware that was used in penetrating the DNC and how it was also used in Ukraine and against NATO (gee which foreign actor has this constellation of interests?), or that the hours of illicit network activity overlap exactly with working hours in the Moscow timezone, or that the supposed Romanian leaker Guccifer 2.0 appears to have used an online translator to conduct conversations with the press in "Romanian", or that the phishing link pointed to a server which is known to be used to Russian advanced persistent threats, etc? All of that was reported in the "media" so therefore it cannot have any basis in reality, and therefore the truth of Trump saying it wasn't the Russians is self-evident.

Eliza Cassan comes to mind for some reason.

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12.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Dec 14, 2016, 16:07
12.
Re: Morning Mobilization Dec 14, 2016, 16:07
Dec 14, 2016, 16:07
 
I used to hang out on a forum that had a pretty sizeable Russian population, and it was fascinating watching a subset of that population go all in on Putinism over time. Some of the Russian posters maintained a healthy skepticism of their government, were horrified at the assassination of journalists, saw their government's interventions in the "near abroad" as an attempt to distract from economic stagnation and oligarchic cronyism, etc., but others swallowed it hook, line, and sinker. As Timmeh, and others like him, show, that process seems to be happening much faster with the American right-wing and Trumpism. I'd argue with him, but what would be the point? In his world, there are no verifiable facts, reasonable inference is impossible, anything reported in the media is de facto false, and all information is suspect except for the party line of the glorious leader. Why discuss the specific malware that was used in penetrating the DNC and how it was also used in Ukraine and against NATO (gee which foreign actor has this constellation of interests?), or that the hours of illicit network activity overlap exactly with working hours in the Moscow timezone, or that the supposed Romanian leaker Guccifer 2.0 appears to have used an online translator to conduct conversations with the press in "Romanian", or that the phishing link pointed to a server which is known to be used to Russian advanced persistent threats, etc? All of that was reported in the "media" so therefore it cannot have any basis in reality, and therefore the truth of Trump saying it wasn't the Russians is self-evident.

11.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Dec 14, 2016, 15:51
11.
Re: Morning Mobilization Dec 14, 2016, 15:51
Dec 14, 2016, 15:51
 
Cutter wrote on Dec 14, 2016, 13:20:
Pigeon wrote on Dec 14, 2016, 11:53:
Burrito of Peace wrote on Dec 14, 2016, 11:28:
I read it and it lines up with what I have suspected all along that we, the US, is on the losing side of the "cyberwar".

Our politicians are too clueless to understand the breadth of the problem, and too willing to use the results for political leverage. Honestly they didn't even need the details, just putting forth a vague implication that wrong doing had occurred based on out of context statements. What was actually the worst thing in those emails? Probably Donna Brazile leaking a debate question to Hillary's aide and that was the least focused on aspect.

Exactly if this was going the other way the GOP would be screaming bloody murder for the next 4 years. Ultimately it really doesn't matter than Giant Douche beat Turd Sandwich because they're two sides of the same corporate coin.

Yeah unless they hacked the republicans and all the lefties found out that gosh these guys actually love America and the constitution and our freedom and they are not lying vote stealing scumbags like the entire democrat party.

But of course the leftist Venezuela dictator loving media would spin it all into brain programming lies to their brain slave masses anyway.
10.
 
Re: Morning Safety Dance
Dec 14, 2016, 15:47
10.
Re: Morning Safety Dance Dec 14, 2016, 15:47
Dec 14, 2016, 15:47
 
""DNC figure John Podesta told to follow phishing link, instead of link to enable 2FA""

No it cant be.. its Trump and the evil Ruskies taking over the country...

Oh wait... there is ZERO EVIDENCE it was the Russians at all.

Oh and Hillary signed off on Uranium One to the Ruskies for 45 million into her personal coffers... * cough* I mean speeches and foundation.

Oh and Obama on camera told the leader of Russia that after he won his election he could really get it going between America and the USA...

But no...

the Brain dead leftist idiots in the country only want to know what the leftist lying media programs them with or doesn't because they ignore or spin all the so called news to fit their communist takeover agenda.
9.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Dec 14, 2016, 13:20
Cutter
 
9.
Re: Morning Mobilization Dec 14, 2016, 13:20
Dec 14, 2016, 13:20
 Cutter
 
Pigeon wrote on Dec 14, 2016, 11:53:
Burrito of Peace wrote on Dec 14, 2016, 11:28:
I read it and it lines up with what I have suspected all along that we, the US, is on the losing side of the "cyberwar".

Our politicians are too clueless to understand the breadth of the problem, and too willing to use the results for political leverage. Honestly they didn't even need the details, just putting forth a vague implication that wrong doing had occurred based on out of context statements. What was actually the worst thing in those emails? Probably Donna Brazile leaking a debate question to Hillary's aide and that was the least focused on aspect.

Exactly if this was going the other way the GOP would be screaming bloody murder for the next 4 years. Ultimately it really doesn't matter than Giant Douche beat Turd Sandwich because they're two sides of the same corporate coin.
"I didn't know you had it in you. Sorry, poor choice of words." - David
Avatar 25394
8.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Dec 14, 2016, 12:10
8.
Re: Morning Mobilization Dec 14, 2016, 12:10
Dec 14, 2016, 12:10
 
Pigeon wrote on Dec 14, 2016, 11:53:
Burrito of Peace wrote on Dec 14, 2016, 11:28:
I read it and it lines up with what I have suspected all along that we, the US, is on the losing side of the "cyberwar".

Our politicians are too clueless to understand the breadth of the problem, and too willing to use the results for political leverage. Honestly they didn't even need the details, just putting forth a vague implication that wrong doing had occurred based on out of context statements. What was actually the worst thing in those emails? Probably Donna Brazile leaking a debate question to Hillary's aide and that was the least focused on aspect.

Again, I'd highly recommend reading the NYT story: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/us/politics/russia-hack-election-dnc.html

The thing that was concerning to me was less the nothingburger email drama -- which as you point out was embarrassing for democrats but hardly criminal -- than the leaking of the DNCs campaign strategy, budgets, personnel assignments, etc. all of which were out their on the internet for the Trump campaign to pick through even if it didn't consume the headlines like John Podesta's email. That's the sort of thing that the Watergate burglars were after and which ended the Nixon presidency. I'm doubtful the Trump campaign was directly coordinating with Russian intelligence, but the fact is they directly benefited from Russian intelligence operations and that the Russians acted as their Gordon Liddy et al.

Again, I'm willing to give Trump the benefit of the doubt and not assume he's been compromised by Russian intelligence, but he needs to put his pride aside and rather than try to deny something that diminishes his victory, instead commit his administration to an investigation of Russian intelligence operations during the election and to an appropriate response, whether it be further economic sanctions on Russia or retaliatory cyberwarfare. If Trump gives Putin a pass on cyberwar against the US, then that pretty much confirms he places his own ego ahead of the national security of the United States.
7.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Dec 14, 2016, 11:53
7.
Re: Morning Mobilization Dec 14, 2016, 11:53
Dec 14, 2016, 11:53
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Dec 14, 2016, 11:28:
I read it and it lines up with what I have suspected all along that we, the US, is on the losing side of the "cyberwar".

Our politicians are too clueless to understand the breadth of the problem, and too willing to use the results for political leverage. Honestly they didn't even need the details, just putting forth a vague implication that wrong doing had occurred based on out of context statements. What was actually the worst thing in those emails? Probably Donna Brazile leaking a debate question to Hillary's aide and that was the least focused on aspect.
6.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Dec 14, 2016, 11:28
6.
Re: Morning Mobilization Dec 14, 2016, 11:28
Dec 14, 2016, 11:28
 
I read it and it lines up with what I have suspected all along that we, the US, is on the losing side of the "cyberwar".
"No matter where you go, there you are." Buckaroo Banzai

There are two types of computer users: Masochists and Linux users.

If you would like help or further details on a technical discussion we're having, email me at bnhelp (at sign) keepusiel.net . Pl
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5.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Dec 14, 2016, 11:15
5.
Re: Morning Mobilization Dec 14, 2016, 11:15
Dec 14, 2016, 11:15
 
None of you read the article that was cited in that claim did you? At least no one commented in the relevant thread last night: https://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=postmessage&boardid=1&threadid=176985

Whether or not the Russian intrusion actually tipped the election, you cannot read the NYT's story from yesterday afternoon documenting the Russian attacks on our political organizations without coming to the conclusion that this was a plausibly deniable act of war.
4.
 
Re: Morning Safety Dance
Dec 14, 2016, 11:10
4.
Re: Morning Safety Dance Dec 14, 2016, 11:10
Dec 14, 2016, 11:10
 
Well, it does surprise me that many blame the hack vs the content of the hack for the loss. As for the plurality of votes...that is why the Electoral College was set up. Otherwise, we might as well let California vote for all of us. Nah.
3.
 
Re: Morning Safety Dance
Dec 14, 2016, 10:40
Cutter
 
3.
Re: Morning Safety Dance Dec 14, 2016, 10:40
Dec 14, 2016, 10:40
 Cutter
 
Oh for god sake, if you don't understand why she lost by now you never will. The rationalizations are simply pathetic and show how far out of touch some people are.

Maybe Hil didn't win because she forgot to make the appropriate animal sacrifices to Apollo, yeah, that's definitely it!
Rolleyes

"I didn't know you had it in you. Sorry, poor choice of words." - David
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2.
 
Re: Morning Safety Dance
Dec 14, 2016, 10:40
2.
Re: Morning Safety Dance Dec 14, 2016, 10:40
Dec 14, 2016, 10:40
 
Just stop you whinning pathetic losers, ya lost get over it Baby 's
1.
 
Re: Morning Safety Dance
Dec 14, 2016, 10:20
1.
Re: Morning Safety Dance Dec 14, 2016, 10:20
Dec 14, 2016, 10:20
 

Trump was over 2.5 million votes short of a winning the election, much less a landslide. But if they want to blame it on a typo, so be it.
A mask is not a political statement. It's an IQ test.
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