Muscular Beaver wrote on Dec 14, 2016, 08:02:jdreyer wrote on Dec 13, 2016, 22:42:Nobody questions that the electronics in the F-35 are very advanced. Its still a plane that wasnt necessary, since you could simply upgrade older planes with stuff like that or make a new simpler one. Stealth is overrated and this plane tries to do too many jobs at once. Thats why its mediocre at best.
Here's an article on what the pilots who fly the F-35 actually think of it.
A taste:I was conducting a strike mission and Red Air was coming at me. In a 4th Gen fighter you must do a whole lot of interpretation. You see things in azimuth, and you see things in elevation. In the F-35 you just see the God’s eye view of the whole world. It’s very much like you are watching the briefing in real time.
I am coming in to perform the simulated weapons release, and Red Air is coming the other direction. I have enough situational awareness to assess whether Red Air is going to be a factor to me by the time I release the weapon. I can make the decision, I’m going to go to the target, I’m going to release this weapon. Simultaneously I pre-target the threat, and as soon as I release the A2G weapon, I can flip a switch with my thumb and shoot the Red Air. This is difficult to do in a 4th Gen fighter, because there is so much manipulation of systems in the cockpit. All while paying attention to the basic mechanics of flying the airplane and interpreting threat warnings that are often very vague, or only directional. In the F-35 I know where the threats are, what they are and I can thread the needle. I can tell that the adversary is out in front of me and I can make a very, very smart decision about whether to continue or get out of there. All that, and I can very easily switch between mission sets.
I recently saw a picture of a F-35 flying side by side with a F-16 at low speeds. The F-35 had to fly a far higher angle and to the eye it seemed like it was very close to stalling. The F-16 went pretty much straight.
I thought that picture revealed how bad the aerodynamics of that plane really are.
jdreyer wrote on Dec 13, 2016, 22:42:Nobody questions that the electronics in the F-35 are very advanced. Its still a plane that wasnt necessary, since you could simply upgrade older planes with stuff like that or make a new simpler one. Stealth is overrated and this plane tries to do too many jobs at once. Thats why its mediocre at best.
Here's an article on what the pilots who fly the F-35 actually think of it.
A taste:I was conducting a strike mission and Red Air was coming at me. In a 4th Gen fighter you must do a whole lot of interpretation. You see things in azimuth, and you see things in elevation. In the F-35 you just see the God’s eye view of the whole world. It’s very much like you are watching the briefing in real time.
I am coming in to perform the simulated weapons release, and Red Air is coming the other direction. I have enough situational awareness to assess whether Red Air is going to be a factor to me by the time I release the weapon. I can make the decision, I’m going to go to the target, I’m going to release this weapon. Simultaneously I pre-target the threat, and as soon as I release the A2G weapon, I can flip a switch with my thumb and shoot the Red Air. This is difficult to do in a 4th Gen fighter, because there is so much manipulation of systems in the cockpit. All while paying attention to the basic mechanics of flying the airplane and interpreting threat warnings that are often very vague, or only directional. In the F-35 I know where the threats are, what they are and I can thread the needle. I can tell that the adversary is out in front of me and I can make a very, very smart decision about whether to continue or get out of there. All that, and I can very easily switch between mission sets.
I was conducting a strike mission and Red Air was coming at me. In a 4th Gen fighter you must do a whole lot of interpretation. You see things in azimuth, and you see things in elevation. In the F-35 you just see the God’s eye view of the whole world. It’s very much like you are watching the briefing in real time.
I am coming in to perform the simulated weapons release, and Red Air is coming the other direction. I have enough situational awareness to assess whether Red Air is going to be a factor to me by the time I release the weapon. I can make the decision, I’m going to go to the target, I’m going to release this weapon. Simultaneously I pre-target the threat, and as soon as I release the A2G weapon, I can flip a switch with my thumb and shoot the Red Air. This is difficult to do in a 4th Gen fighter, because there is so much manipulation of systems in the cockpit. All while paying attention to the basic mechanics of flying the airplane and interpreting threat warnings that are often very vague, or only directional. In the F-35 I know where the threats are, what they are and I can thread the needle. I can tell that the adversary is out in front of me and I can make a very, very smart decision about whether to continue or get out of there. All that, and I can very easily switch between mission sets.
Agent.X7 wrote on Dec 13, 2016, 18:23:descender wrote on Dec 13, 2016, 15:29:Obama directly cost me my job
Here is another perfect place where actual facts help. The Budget Control act that actually cut Lockheed's funding was a bipartisan effort in congress. Congress couldn't reach a budget agreement and it triggered automatic spending cuts, which is why Lockheed cut 10,000 jobs. You can blame the GOP congressmen that fought to put that automatic trigger in the bill, you can blame the GOP congressmen that failed at their jobs and shut down the government forcing the sequester and spending cuts... but you can't blame Obama. He had very little to do with it.
Wrong. That program was cut due to Obama having Defense Secretary Gates review the program and then deciding it was not worth the money. The other cuts came later. Senator McCain suggested to Obama that it might not be worth it, but in the end Obama made that decision. Which is why it's even funnier that a project even more ridiculously in the red like the X-35 is allowed to continue, especially since Lockheed originally proposed outfitting our existing planes with better electronics instead. (Which is what we were doing to the existing fleet of AH-64 helicopters.)
Burrito of Peace wrote on Dec 13, 2016, 15:29:Angrius Maximis wrote on Dec 13, 2016, 15:21:
OH SHUT UP you crying baby. Fuck you liberals are worse than bed bugs you follow every story everywhere and get into anything
FLAG ON THE FIELD! Unsupportable ad hominem attack. 25 yard penalty, third down.
Agent.X7 wrote on Dec 13, 2016, 13:59:
Trump just said what everyone in any way already familiar with the project knows to be true. We've wasted billions on a jet that is outclassed at every level by fighters we sold to our enemies. Political bullshit is the only reason we are still throwing money at this failed project.
Also, Obama directly cost me my job at Lockheed when he took office, so fuck people who think this is just a Trump thing.
NKD wrote on Dec 13, 2016, 15:46:Angrius Maximis wrote on Dec 13, 2016, 15:21:NKD wrote on Dec 13, 2016, 13:17:
It's very disturbing that his supporters are okay with this kind of behavior and even applaud it.
OH SHUT UP you crying baby. Fuck you liberals are worse than bed bugs you follow every story everywhere and get into anything
You sound like a triggered cuck. Low energy. Sad. *insert Pepe Frog picture here*
NKD wrote on Dec 13, 2016, 14:15:After 2 terms of a decent president our country is definitely looking like a sad joke.
There's a difference between the President's policies creating and ending jobs, and reckless tweeting doing it. Maybe not to the person losing their job, but to the other hundreds of millions of people living here. One is unavoidable, the other is tacky and makes the entire country look like a joke.
descender wrote on Dec 13, 2016, 15:29:Obama directly cost me my job
Here is another perfect place where actual facts help. The Budget Control act that actually cut Lockheed's funding was a bipartisan effort in congress. Congress couldn't reach a budget agreement and it triggered automatic spending cuts, which is why Lockheed cut 10,000 jobs. You can blame the GOP congressmen that fought to put that automatic trigger in the bill, you can blame the GOP congressmen that failed at their jobs and shut down the government forcing the sequester and spending cuts... but you can't blame Obama. He had very little to do with it.
Angrius Maximis wrote on Dec 13, 2016, 15:21:NKD wrote on Dec 13, 2016, 13:17:
It's very disturbing that his supporters are okay with this kind of behavior and even applaud it.
OH SHUT UP you crying baby. Fuck you liberals are worse than bed bugs you follow every story everywhere and get into anything
Obama directly cost me my job
Angrius Maximis wrote on Dec 13, 2016, 15:21:
OH SHUT UP you crying baby. Fuck you liberals are worse than bed bugs you follow every story everywhere and get into anything