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Re: Evening Safety Dance
Dec 11, 2016, 02:55
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Re: Evening Safety Dance Dec 11, 2016, 02:55
Dec 11, 2016, 02:55
 
Quboid wrote on Dec 10, 2016, 09:20:
Scheherazade wrote on Dec 10, 2016, 05:40:
I'm amused how people care more about who was the messenger, than they do about the message.

I'm surprised by how some people like the message so much, they don't like discussion about who the messenger was or what the messenger might want to achieve. Perhaps when you like how the people who would turn your country to rubble are interfering, introspection is unpleasant.

Let's be clear, the information provided was from the democratic party itself, and it exposed how the democratic party was subverting democracy by working to bias the primary election.

The 3rd party that facilitated leaking of that information, did not author that information, and was itself not stating that they are the primary source. The primary source (DNC) did not deny the legitimacy, and only complained about the fact that it even happened (the leak).

Personally, I say "thank you" to whoever leaked it. These are the kinds of leaks we _need_ in order to have legitimate elections.

I presume you are referring to 'Trump elected = ruin'?
Given how close Bernie was to Hillary in the primary, and how he could have been the candidate had the democratic party not worked to undo him, and how he likely would have shat all over Trump in the general election (polls had him favored against trump by a significantly larger margin than Hillary) ... tbh, the democratic party deserved to get crapped on in the election. Maybe they will learn to not be aholes to their own supporters.

In any case, dems will be back in 2 years. The government shits the bed every year no matter who is in charge, hence folks are always tired of whoever they have, and it flip flops dem rep election over election. Hence the legislature will go dem in 2 years. Then we can go back to the stalemate and inaction that keeps this country from getting completely picked apart by regulatory capture.


eRe4s3r wrote on Dec 11, 2016, 00:37:
Scheherazade wrote on Dec 10, 2016, 05:40:
I'm amused how people care more about who was the messenger, than they do about the message.

And yet in your sidenote you make clear that the only thing that matters when we know the facts, is who tells you otherwise and why. Not what he says specifically.

The messenger is far more important than the message. If you don't know the intention of the former, you can't trust the latter whatsoever. Hence, establishing that CIA says thing X, means it's 100% bullshit no matter what is said. An agency built upon lies, will never ever tell you the truth.

Critical analysis matters. Arbitrary claims depend heavily on the messenger. Leaked documents whose apparent author in no way denies are legitimate (but rather cries about how unfair it is that someone other than 'whoever they intended/desired' got a chance to read them), are another.

The point of the side note was to illustrate how the government likes to accuse 'whoever they don't like' of 'anything undesirable that happens' - immediately, off the cuff, and without evidence. And whenever evidence comes along that shows otherwise, instead of saying 'sorry', they just fall quiet and hope no one pays attention. It pertains to how they blame Russia for the hack, without actually knowing if Russia did or didn't commit the hack, because the evidence they point to is tangential and not specific to Russia (hacking style). Simply : Who did it? Russia. BAM. Answer is immediate. The investigation follows later - and let's be honest, they are only interested in finding and presenting information that corroborates. Any info that doesn't corroborate or disproves : that info gets filed away and it's crickets about that info from then on. You don't find out until some FOIA request 30 years later after it's ancient history.

But in any case, this is academic. The DNC doesn't deny the documents are real... which is why I couldn't care less who delivered the message. And it's why no other unbiased person should either.



I should add : The leaked info was no surprise for me. I expect that every party will make an effort to sell its incumbent interests and the candidates that champion those interests. I'm 100% confident Republicans do the same, and were simply fortunate enough to not get compromised. It in no way affected my vote. The only thing it did was give me a chuckle from watching politicians squirm after people see the shit stains on their dirty laundry.

-scheherazade

This comment was edited on Dec 11, 2016, 05:11.
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