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26. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 27, 2016, 18:49 NKD
 
It's a sad statement on American culture that one of the most praised traits a person can have is "hard worker." Slaving away for shitty pay in order to make someone else rich is apparently the peak of human accomplishment.  
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25. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 27, 2016, 12:49 eRe4s3r
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Nov 26, 2016, 23:27:
jdreyer wrote on Nov 26, 2016, 21:54:
I'll agree that it's time to start thinking of a new paradigm. Most people enjoy "work" in order to have some purpose and stimulation in life.
They do? Got any support for that? I would have assumed the exact opposite. That a vast majority of people work simply because they "have to" ie.. to pay the rent and buy food. And if given any choice they wouldn't want to work.

I personally never enjoyed work, per se. Which is not to say I hated my job, just that it never appeared on my list of "things I want to do." Did I like some of the people I worked with? Absolutely. A few of them are still my very best friends even though we haven't worked together in many years.

I worked in an "education" company, and we before we got bought up by a larger company, our CEO used to give us these pep talks about the company and how great it was we were helping kids learn and make their lives better. I was sitting in the back of the room thinking, "Hey, it's great the kids are getting helped, but the only reason I am here is because you are paying me."

Well that was not the point of the article, though I understand why it can be constructed in that way. It is not about enjoying work... at all. But If you enjoyed what you did you would probably be much happier in life, don't you agree? Anyway, this isn't what he meant, I think.

The vast majority of people really grew up with the mindset that "hard (paid) work = valuable human being that should be respected by society" I mean, we even got some "special" examples of them on this forum. This is very different from "enjoying" your job, or not.

The point of the article was that this logic of attributing "social standing through work" does no longer work, and also it made the point (though it didn't elaborate) that work for community, neighbors and quality of life should be valued more, even if it is unpaid (private farming comes to mind, but also helping people and doing community jobs, like volunteering as firefighter, educating children, adults etc.). The core problem is that many people would never do something like that without being paid for it. And you know what else? in Germany 50% of pensioners find their social heart after the job ends. Just imagine what we could achieve if the population group below 67 could be accessed to do the same. There'd be an explosion in art and culture on par with the Roman empire or the Renaissance in it's golden age. Without the shackles of slavery or religion that held these periods back.

But really, this is the core problem. Try convincing someone who grew up with this mindset -> "hard (paid) work = valuable human being that should be respected by society" and who now lost his job and is angry at this. To him anyone not working is a "deadbeat" and not worth of even consideration as human being. To him, anyone doing anything without being paid, "just for fun" is a waste of life.

Finally, minimum wage is good and nice, but when 50% of jobs are below the (very real) poverty line (aka, jobs where you can not save money, you are continuously spending 100% (and more (ie. debt)) to merely live. Then capitalism as a whole has failed. There should be no job that doesn't allow you to live from, because any normal human being should refuse working at these jobs in a proper society. This of course is petty talk when jobs are exported to china et al, where the poverty affects more people than live in Europe and USA together. You will always find cheap labor there.

Anyway.. I have no solutions or anything, but I think the article is valuable to open your thinking up to a new mindset, or at the very least to a new viewpoint. The one that this valuation of work can not continue, because it drives people into more and more poverty as the wages of questionable jobs fall and the expenses increase. Minimum wage is below poverty lines in nearly all countries or require working 40 hour weeks to barely sustain above poverty line (aka no personal freedoms for creating own culture, and no money to pursue any to boot)

And this problem permeates western society as a whole. Society becomes rougher and less caring every year. Because this effect of dehumanization along social borders increases as poverty and "us vs them" thinking spreads. And the more it spreads, the less stable a country becomes.
 
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24. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 27, 2016, 11:11 sauron
 
1badmf wrote on Nov 27, 2016, 00:03:
Creston wrote on Nov 26, 2016, 23:27:
sauron wrote on Nov 26, 2016, 20:58:
Hmm, while browsing the All-Seeing Eye network here at Barad-Dur, I noticed what seems like a good deal online.

Surface Pro 3 deal

And shipping to Mordor is free, via Hobbit Special Delivery.

So the deal seems to include both entertainment, and dinner...

Any comments welcome - would this thing run Divinity: Original Sin? And maybe Pillars of Eternity? Thanks for advice.

I would stay faaaaaar the fuck away from Surfaces. I support them at work and they are non-stop problems. Microsoft is STILL trying to fix the battery life issues on the Surface 3 (and have been for well over a year now.)


that's surprising. i have a surface 3 that i bought for black friday last year. its battery life is one of its pluses i feel. maybe i just got lucky but i've gone through a bunch of cheap notebooks and the surface was the first one that really did everything i wanted.

Thanks guys. The deal is so good that I will probably order one.

Plus, Microsoft has been informed of the consequences of displeasing Mordor (ie total annihilation).

So their customer service has been really quite helpful.
 
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Kittens!
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23. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 27, 2016, 05:12 yuastnav
 
bigspender wrote on Nov 27, 2016, 02:28:
ledhead1969 wrote on Nov 26, 2016, 23:13:
jdreyer wrote on Nov 26, 2016, 21:54:
eRe4s3r wrote on Nov 26, 2016, 12:53:
I am just gonna leave this link here

What if jobs are the problem, not the solution

It made me realize that computerization of large portions of jobs may not be as far fetched and far away as I thought, and imo it should be a mandatory read, and should be seen as a new experience, to look at work from an different angle, and to look at the consequence of doing so, so leave your preconceptions about how "work builds character" at the door before entering.

And remember, Asian school children dominate math, but you know what they don't dominate? Cultural development. Those making culture are not the ones acing math and science and culture is what defines a nation, not it's jobs. Shouldn't this mean that we should strife to educate children so they further our culture and society, and not our economy?

Isn't Trump winning the perfect proof? Everyone puts so much value on jobs, everyone is sad and angry they lost their jobs, instead of creating something new out of that, something that does not benefit the economy, but the society of your nation, your neighborhood even, even if it's based on "entitlements" and even if you have to sustain yourself on a slightly lower luxury level... mhh, food for thought.

I'll agree that it's time to start thinking of a new paradigm. Most people enjoy "work" in order to have some purpose and stimulation in life. Just sitting around doing nothing sucks and saps your morale, leading to drug abuse, mental illness, and other issues. And here's a nasty quote from the article:

Almost half of employed adults in this country are eligible for food stamps (most of those who are eligible donít apply). The market in labour has broken down, along with most others.

Income inequality is just STUPID. How about instituting a living minimum wage, like $20 per hour? That would cut down on the user of government services is a massive way. Walmart and places like it actually train their workers to use government services to supplement their incomes. It's corporate welfare at its most pernicious.

The sad thing (because it is politically untenable) is that it would be a HUGE boon to the economy. Poor and lower middle income people spend their money, nearly all of it. This stimulates the economy by cycling the money through it. Rich people just sock it away, often overseas. Or they invest it, but trickle down economics has been pretty much proven to fail at this point.

I guess you don't understand math or economics. Taking other people's money and giving it to someone with no expectation of them doing anything to earn it would be hugely inefficient and wasteful. They will spend it on cheetos and beer and video games. It would be much smarter to take all that money you want to take from real earners, and give it back to those who produce in the form of tax breaks. They will then take that money and build something of value that deadbeats can choose to work for.

You Bernie fools are a riot. Go to Cuba and see your shit-hole commie/socialist utopia...or Venezuela. Seriously, go to one of those awesome places that gives everything to everyone. Only problem is that when the government runs out of people producing, runs out of their money, it turns evil. But, ya know free shit and Bernie. Idiots.

What does having a fair wage have to do with communism? I don't understand how you've made that connection.

It's all in the nickname.
 
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22. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 27, 2016, 02:28 bigspender
 
ledhead1969 wrote on Nov 26, 2016, 23:13:
jdreyer wrote on Nov 26, 2016, 21:54:
eRe4s3r wrote on Nov 26, 2016, 12:53:
I am just gonna leave this link here

What if jobs are the problem, not the solution

It made me realize that computerization of large portions of jobs may not be as far fetched and far away as I thought, and imo it should be a mandatory read, and should be seen as a new experience, to look at work from an different angle, and to look at the consequence of doing so, so leave your preconceptions about how "work builds character" at the door before entering.

And remember, Asian school children dominate math, but you know what they don't dominate? Cultural development. Those making culture are not the ones acing math and science and culture is what defines a nation, not it's jobs. Shouldn't this mean that we should strife to educate children so they further our culture and society, and not our economy?

Isn't Trump winning the perfect proof? Everyone puts so much value on jobs, everyone is sad and angry they lost their jobs, instead of creating something new out of that, something that does not benefit the economy, but the society of your nation, your neighborhood even, even if it's based on "entitlements" and even if you have to sustain yourself on a slightly lower luxury level... mhh, food for thought.

I'll agree that it's time to start thinking of a new paradigm. Most people enjoy "work" in order to have some purpose and stimulation in life. Just sitting around doing nothing sucks and saps your morale, leading to drug abuse, mental illness, and other issues. And here's a nasty quote from the article:

Almost half of employed adults in this country are eligible for food stamps (most of those who are eligible donít apply). The market in labour has broken down, along with most others.

Income inequality is just STUPID. How about instituting a living minimum wage, like $20 per hour? That would cut down on the user of government services is a massive way. Walmart and places like it actually train their workers to use government services to supplement their incomes. It's corporate welfare at its most pernicious.

The sad thing (because it is politically untenable) is that it would be a HUGE boon to the economy. Poor and lower middle income people spend their money, nearly all of it. This stimulates the economy by cycling the money through it. Rich people just sock it away, often overseas. Or they invest it, but trickle down economics has been pretty much proven to fail at this point.

I guess you don't understand math or economics. Taking other people's money and giving it to someone with no expectation of them doing anything to earn it would be hugely inefficient and wasteful. They will spend it on cheetos and beer and video games. It would be much smarter to take all that money you want to take from real earners, and give it back to those who produce in the form of tax breaks. They will then take that money and build something of value that deadbeats can choose to work for.

You Bernie fools are a riot. Go to Cuba and see your shit-hole commie/socialist utopia...or Venezuela. Seriously, go to one of those awesome places that gives everything to everyone. Only problem is that when the government runs out of people producing, runs out of their money, it turns evil. But, ya know free shit and Bernie. Idiots.

What does having a fair wage have to do with communism? I don't understand how you've made that connection.
 
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"Money doesn't exist in the 24th century, the acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity." - Jean-Luc Picard
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21. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 27, 2016, 01:53 SlimRam
 
Ron Glass passed, he was 71.

Yi Lu Shwen Fohn, Shepherd Book
 
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20. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 27, 2016, 00:03 1badmf
 
Creston wrote on Nov 26, 2016, 23:27:
sauron wrote on Nov 26, 2016, 20:58:
Hmm, while browsing the All-Seeing Eye network here at Barad-Dur, I noticed what seems like a good deal online.

Surface Pro 3 deal

And shipping to Mordor is free, via Hobbit Special Delivery.

So the deal seems to include both entertainment, and dinner...

Any comments welcome - would this thing run Divinity: Original Sin? And maybe Pillars of Eternity? Thanks for advice.

I would stay faaaaaar the fuck away from Surfaces. I support them at work and they are non-stop problems. Microsoft is STILL trying to fix the battery life issues on the Surface 3 (and have been for well over a year now.)


that's surprising. i have a surface 3 that i bought for black friday last year. its battery life is one of its pluses i feel. maybe i just got lucky but i've gone through a bunch of cheap notebooks and the surface was the first one that really did everything i wanted.
 
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19. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 26, 2016, 23:27 Mr. Tact
 
jdreyer wrote on Nov 26, 2016, 21:54:
I'll agree that it's time to start thinking of a new paradigm. Most people enjoy "work" in order to have some purpose and stimulation in life.
They do? Got any support for that? I would have assumed the exact opposite. That a vast majority of people work simply because they "have to" ie.. to pay the rent and buy food. And if given any choice they wouldn't want to work.

I personally never enjoyed work, per se. Which is not to say I hated my job, just that it never appeared on my list of "things I want to do." Did I like some of the people I worked with? Absolutely. A few of them are still my very best friends even though we haven't worked together in many years.

I worked in an "education" company, and we before we got bought up by a larger company, our CEO used to give us these pep talks about the company and how great it was we were helping kids learn and make their lives better. I was sitting in the back of the room thinking, "Hey, it's great the kids are getting helped, but the only reason I am here is because you are paying me."
 
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18. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 26, 2016, 23:27 Creston
 
sauron wrote on Nov 26, 2016, 20:58:
Hmm, while browsing the All-Seeing Eye network here at Barad-Dur, I noticed what seems like a good deal online.

Surface Pro 3 deal

And shipping to Mordor is free, via Hobbit Special Delivery.

So the deal seems to include both entertainment, and dinner...

Any comments welcome - would this thing run Divinity: Original Sin? And maybe Pillars of Eternity? Thanks for advice.

I would stay faaaaaar the fuck away from Surfaces. I support them at work and they are non-stop problems. Microsoft is STILL trying to fix the battery life issues on the Surface 3 (and have been for well over a year now.)

 
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17. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 26, 2016, 23:13 ledhead1969
 
jdreyer wrote on Nov 26, 2016, 21:54:
eRe4s3r wrote on Nov 26, 2016, 12:53:
I am just gonna leave this link here

What if jobs are the problem, not the solution

It made me realize that computerization of large portions of jobs may not be as far fetched and far away as I thought, and imo it should be a mandatory read, and should be seen as a new experience, to look at work from an different angle, and to look at the consequence of doing so, so leave your preconceptions about how "work builds character" at the door before entering.

And remember, Asian school children dominate math, but you know what they don't dominate? Cultural development. Those making culture are not the ones acing math and science and culture is what defines a nation, not it's jobs. Shouldn't this mean that we should strife to educate children so they further our culture and society, and not our economy?

Isn't Trump winning the perfect proof? Everyone puts so much value on jobs, everyone is sad and angry they lost their jobs, instead of creating something new out of that, something that does not benefit the economy, but the society of your nation, your neighborhood even, even if it's based on "entitlements" and even if you have to sustain yourself on a slightly lower luxury level... mhh, food for thought.

I'll agree that it's time to start thinking of a new paradigm. Most people enjoy "work" in order to have some purpose and stimulation in life. Just sitting around doing nothing sucks and saps your morale, leading to drug abuse, mental illness, and other issues. And here's a nasty quote from the article:

Almost half of employed adults in this country are eligible for food stamps (most of those who are eligible donít apply). The market in labour has broken down, along with most others.

Income inequality is just STUPID. How about instituting a living minimum wage, like $20 per hour? That would cut down on the user of government services is a massive way. Walmart and places like it actually train their workers to use government services to supplement their incomes. It's corporate welfare at its most pernicious.

The sad thing (because it is politically untenable) is that it would be a HUGE boon to the economy. Poor and lower middle income people spend their money, nearly all of it. This stimulates the economy by cycling the money through it. Rich people just sock it away, often overseas. Or they invest it, but trickle down economics has been pretty much proven to fail at this point.

I guess you don't understand math or economics. Taking other people's money and giving it to someone with no expectation of them doing anything to earn it would be hugely inefficient and wasteful. They will spend it on cheetos and beer and video games. It would be much smarter to take all that money you want to take from real earners, and give it back to those who produce in the form of tax breaks. They will then take that money and build something of value that deadbeats can choose to work for.

You Bernie fools are a riot. Go to Cuba and see your shit-hole commie/socialist utopia...or Venezuela. Seriously, go to one of those awesome places that gives everything to everyone. Only problem is that when the government runs out of people producing, runs out of their money, it turns evil. But, ya know free shit and Bernie. Idiots.
 
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16. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 26, 2016, 22:04 sauron
 
jdreyer wrote on Nov 26, 2016, 21:32:
Mordhaus wrote on Nov 26, 2016, 17:51:
Rogue One 'official' final trailer...releases new one a day later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWNvdoRnNv8

They must be really worried about people showing up. This is the fifth trailer or something. After TFA, I'm not very interested. I'm going to see Dr. Strange and Arrival before R1.

I took Ms. Sauron 1 and Ms. Sauron 2 (and relevant orcs) to see Dr. Strange this evening in Queens. ^^

Must admit it was pretty decent. Even though the levels of sorcery on show were somewhat amateurish...
 
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Kittens!
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15. RIP Fidel? Nov 26, 2016, 22:00 Ahumado
 
RIP Fidel?

WTF this is the guy that allowed ballistic missiles in his country pointed at the US. I hope he is getting a pitchfork up his arse.
I am not including the torment of Cubans for 50 years in my sanction...RIP BARF
 
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14. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 26, 2016, 21:54 jdreyer
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Nov 26, 2016, 12:53:
I am just gonna leave this link here

What if jobs are the problem, not the solution

It made me realize that computerization of large portions of jobs may not be as far fetched and far away as I thought, and imo it should be a mandatory read, and should be seen as a new experience, to look at work from an different angle, and to look at the consequence of doing so, so leave your preconceptions about how "work builds character" at the door before entering.

And remember, Asian school children dominate math, but you know what they don't dominate? Cultural development. Those making culture are not the ones acing math and science and culture is what defines a nation, not it's jobs. Shouldn't this mean that we should strife to educate children so they further our culture and society, and not our economy?

Isn't Trump winning the perfect proof? Everyone puts so much value on jobs, everyone is sad and angry they lost their jobs, instead of creating something new out of that, something that does not benefit the economy, but the society of your nation, your neighborhood even, even if it's based on "entitlements" and even if you have to sustain yourself on a slightly lower luxury level... mhh, food for thought.

I'll agree that it's time to start thinking of a new paradigm. Most people enjoy "work" in order to have some purpose and stimulation in life. Just sitting around doing nothing sucks and saps your morale, leading to drug abuse, mental illness, and other issues. And here's a nasty quote from the article:

Almost half of employed adults in this country are eligible for food stamps (most of those who are eligible donít apply). The market in labour has broken down, along with most others.

Income inequality is just STUPID. How about instituting a living minimum wage, like $20 per hour? That would cut down on the user of government services is a massive way. Walmart and places like it actually train their workers to use government services to supplement their incomes. It's corporate welfare at its most pernicious.

The sad thing (because it is politically untenable) is that it would be a HUGE boon to the economy. Poor and lower middle income people spend their money, nearly all of it. This stimulates the economy by cycling the money through it. Rich people just sock it away, often overseas. Or they invest it, but trickle down economics has been pretty much proven to fail at this point.
 
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The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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13. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 26, 2016, 21:33 jdreyer
 
Pigeon wrote on Nov 26, 2016, 21:23:
And now Ron Glass aka Shepard Book from firefly is dead. Damn 2016...

Aww, damn. RIP Book.
 
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The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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12. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 26, 2016, 21:32 jdreyer
 
Mordhaus wrote on Nov 26, 2016, 17:51:
Rogue One 'official' final trailer...releases new one a day later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWNvdoRnNv8

They must be really worried about people showing up. This is the fifth trailer or something. After TFA, I'm not very interested. I'm going to see Dr. Strange and Arrival before R1.
 
Avatar 22024
 
The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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11. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 26, 2016, 21:23 Pigeon
 
And now Ron Glass aka Shepard Book from firefly is dead. Damn 2016...  
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10. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 26, 2016, 20:58 sauron
 
Hmm, while browsing the All-Seeing Eye network here at Barad-Dur, I noticed what seems like a good deal online.

Surface Pro 3 deal

And shipping to Mordor is free, via Hobbit Special Delivery.

So the deal seems to include both entertainment, and dinner...

Any comments welcome - would this thing run Divinity: Original Sin? And maybe Pillars of Eternity? Thanks for advice.
 
Avatar 8692
 
Kittens!
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9. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 26, 2016, 19:07 Creston
 
Pigeon wrote on Nov 26, 2016, 15:28:
Picked up Witcher 3 goty ed. figured $30 was more than a worth while price. Seeing the file was over 40gigs I decided I'd go on a long bike ride figured it'd be done when I got back. Well it was mostly done, when I got back my network was down, I reset it then my computer started flipping out, 99% memory and disk usage even after a full shutdown/boot. Managed to get it into safe mode, where the problem did not occur, and some googling pointed to the network drivers as a possible cause. Disabled it in the start up, replaced the drivers and everything seems to be working now. I guess the game defaults to hard mode and the challenge starts before you even get it downloaded . That or Comcast was pissed I was using the bandwidth I paid for and decided to hose my network and computer.

Weird. Here's a tip if you run into Witcher 3 black screening OFTEN (as in within minutes of starting): Underclock your video card. I know it sounds weird, but if I run my card at normal speed I can't even get past the very first balcony view. Underclock it by like 10mhz and 30mhz, boom, it'll crash maybe twice in 150 hours of play.

The game is so fucking awesome, it's well worth the hassle. Trust me.
 
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8. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 26, 2016, 17:51 Mordhaus
 
Rogue One 'official' final trailer...releases new one a day later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWNvdoRnNv8
 
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7. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 26, 2016, 16:04 Pigeon
 
The Half Elf wrote on Nov 26, 2016, 15:40:
And that guy was "barely" hit, bullshit, he still had a hair!

The pilot must have mistaken him for a US Navy ship.
 
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