Verno wrote on Nov 10, 2016, 12:32:
Just sayin' Sure, polls and all that but still, way to go DNC.

The polls, including those from months ago, are not a prediction as we have clearly seen. HRC won the DNC nomination fair and square. That horse has been kicked to death, move along. just sayin

The Pyro wrote on Nov 10, 2016, 09:56:
The Affordable Care Act is failing the middle class because it has done nothing to address the root of the issue: costs are out of control. Instead, the ACA just spreads the same outrageous prices around and allows the inflation to continue unabated.

Consider a medical procedure like having a baby. The cost of a routine vaginal delivery can exceed $20,000 in San Fransisco this year (and a C-section is twice that). The same service in other developed countries costs half or less. This is the problem that we desperately need to fix. The cost increases are unsustainable no matter how we try to pay for them.

Premiums have skyrocketed because people are using more health care - but we haven't brought the costs down at all.

It's true that the ACA was supposed to reduce costs, and for the first couple of years it did, but the last couple, they've gone way up again. The main problem IMO is using a bunch of private insurers. Profit is always a motive.

There are 3 models that the rest of the industrial world uses to control health care costs:
1. Single payer (Canada, Sweden) - by having a massive single pool, costs are distributed and massive bulk purchasing power is in play
2. A public option (Japan) - provides a baseline low with which everyone else must compete.
3. Private, but heavily regulated and high competition (Swiss) - Have a lot of smart regs controlling how healthcare companies can operate, require everyone into the free market, and have the system be national. Still, Swiss healthcare costs are second only to the USA.

The USA has several problems:
1. Each state can have its own healthcare regs, which any carrier is required to follow. This increases costs.
2. Often, like ISPs or the phone company, there are only one or two healthcare options to choose from. You end up with ISP/Phone company pricing.
3. You'll never get a national single payer or a public option past congress. There are too many insurance lobbyists.

Interestingly, the most efficient healthcare in the USA is Medicare. It's a shame we couldn't extend that to everyone as a sort of public option.

I know the Repubs are going to repeal the ACA, but they probably won't right away. The private healthcare system is making too much money from the 20M people that have swelled their ranks over the past 5 years, so the lobbyists will oppose it. Until the Repubs can field their own plan (which they've yet to show an ability to do) it will stay in place.

Just sayin' Sure, polls and all that but still, way to go DNC.

RedEye9 wrote on Nov 10, 2016, 12:22:

BobBob wrote on Nov 10, 2016, 12:07:
I'm quite scared for our future. Jingoism, sexism, science ignorance, and bigotry will not only be prevalent in this upcoming administration, but it will validate such behavior nationwide by its fanatical constituents.

Executive leadership often sets a culture tone in law, education. and attitude.

Many news outlets are trying to down play it to keep the peace and to prevent widespread panic, but history has shown that often the situation is much worse than is either predicted or what people are willing to imagine.

I truly hope our California government can protect us.

i think we're only mildly fucked. If you thought Congress stonewalled President Obama, just wait and see what happens with President Fuckstick Von Clownstein.

PS
Congress refusal to approve the SCOTUS nomination was a national disgrace.

Very different scenario. This time, he will be one of their own, Let's not underestimate the ability of an extremist to manipulate sycophants against each in order to obtain an uncontested outcome. See history. ...

BobBob wrote on Nov 10, 2016, 12:07:
I'm quite scared for our future. Jingoism, sexism, science ignorance, and bigotry will not only be prevalent in this upcoming administration, but it will validate such behavior nationwide by its fanatical constituents.

Executive leadership often sets a culture tone in law, education. and attitude.

Many news outlets are trying to down play it to keep the peace and to prevent widespread panic, but history has shown that often the situation is much worse than is either predicted or what people are willing to imagine.

I truly hope our California government can protect us.

i think we're only mildly fucked. If you thought Congress stonewalled President Obama, just wait and see what happens with President Fuckstick Von Clownstein.

PS
Congress refusal to approve the SCOTUS nomination was a national disgrace.

I'm quite scared for our future. Jingoism, sexism, science ignorance, and bigotry will not only be prevalent in this upcoming administration, but it will validate such behavior nationwide by its fanatical constituents.

Executive leadership often sets a culture tone in law, education. and attitude.

Many news outlets are trying to down play it to keep the peace and to prevent widespread panic, but history has shown that often the situation is much worse than is either predicted or what people are willing to imagine.

I truly hope our California government can protect us.

Trump's 100 day plan, from the man himself:

If he can accomplish just the lobbying reform alone it would be an incredible achievement.

His environmental derailment efforts are of course a disaster but that's a whole other ball of wax.

History repeats: California Today: With Trump’s Rise, a Return to the ‘Rebel State

Finding yourself disenchanted with your state's 'red' election status? There is hope for you.

Verno wrote on Nov 10, 2016, 10:11:

That they are willing to overlook that he's an utterly vile human being, as I explained in my previous post, just because he's making crazy promises, and for many because he hates the same people they hate, makes Trump voters look like a combination of fools and vile human beings themselves.

Maybe but that's what people wanted, the chance of it happening. Certainly wasn't going to be possible under Clinton from their perspective. Trump will get a chance to make good on his promises and if he doesn't then he will be held accountable in the next election. In the meantime rather than blaming Trump voters I think there's a fair amount of blame to go around in the Democratic party.

You guys had a real shot with Sanders, not sure why the signs were continually ignored. Hell I would've voted for Sanders and I'm fairly right of center.

Bernie would have burned some of it down, and a lot of people weren't ready for that (particularly the Democratic Party, who he joined months before his candidacy and did not have a good relationship with.)

Plus, he had the stigma of "socialist," which would have resonated strongly in the midwest, particularly as much of Obama's policies they rallied against were ones framed as just that.

That said, I loved Bernie. Only politician I loved in this whole thing. Would have been super excited for him. I'm not as convinced as anyone else he would have won, because I think he would have drawn in the anti-establishment Trump fans while pushing some of the others, and some Hillary fans, away with his "socialist" rhetoric.

Also, in retrospect, he seems far more willing to play nicely with the Democratic Party than anyone expected.

None of this is excusing the choice to put someone so hated up, but I kind of get it.

BobBob wrote on Nov 10, 2016, 09:29:
Take a very deep breath and hold it for 4 years.

No worries.. the population will be decreasing because of all the deaths due to environmental poisoning as a result of cuts at the EPA and other regulatory agencies.

That they are willing to overlook that he's an utterly vile human being, as I explained in my previous post, just because he's making crazy promises, and for many because he hates the same people they hate, makes Trump voters look like a combination of fools and vile human beings themselves.

Maybe but that's what people wanted, the chance of it happening. Certainly wasn't going to be possible under Clinton from their perspective. Trump will get a chance to make good on his promises and if he doesn't then he will be held accountable in the next election. In the meantime rather than blaming Trump voters I think there's a fair amount of blame to go around in the Democratic party.

You guys had a real shot with Sanders, not sure why the signs were continually ignored. Hell I would've voted for Sanders and I'm fairly right of center.

jdreyer wrote on Nov 10, 2016, 02:42:

Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Nov 10, 2016, 02:10:

Ozmodan wrote on Nov 9, 2016, 17:32:
The funny thing, either Bernie or Joe Biden would have wiped the floor with Trump. It was the democrats fault for putting up a very weak candidate. Personally I thought her position on many of the important policies were worse than Trumps. So maybe the country dodged a bullet.

Yeah, the Dems put up a weak candidate. Can't argue that, but the Republicans put up a guy that wraps himself in the flag and says all the patriotic catchphrases that you can think of, and then attacks a gold star family for exercising their right to free speech after their son gave his life fighting for his country. Yet he is still elected president!!

Doesn't even matter that he's a draft-dodging coward who demeans the sacrifices of our vets by comparing their service to dodging STDs while banging models.

What a fucking great country we live in!! Great choice people!!

On the one hand, I agree. It's inconceivable that Trump got elected. On the other hand, Dems were offering More of the Same, and people both on the left (Bernie) and the right (Trump) had had enough. Even the Dems weren't excited; turnout was down 10% vs. Obama in 2012. If they'd turned out the same for Hill, she'd be prez-elect.

Working class whites have for decades been feeling left out of the party: the oligarchy doesn't include them. Wages have stagnated for 40 years, jobs have disappeared. Billionaire Trump told them what they wanted to hear, he sold them. We'll see if he follows through. I have my doubts, as he's well established in the oligarchy.

Still, Clinton failed to appeal to 40% of the electorate, and it bit her in the ass.

That's kind of the point though. People buy into Trump's transparent bullshit. He's obviously just making a ton of empty promises mixed in with a lot of terrible policy choices, like building that ridiculous wall, or a 45% tariff on imports. I've read through several of his proposals from his site. It's meaningless drivel with no detail at all.

That they are willing to overlook that he's an utterly vile human being, as I explained in my previous post, just because he's making crazy promises, and for many because he hates the same people they hate, makes Trump voters look like a combination of fools and vile human beings themselves.

At least more of the same with a Congress that would actually work with the president could get us some improvement. We've seen a lot of improvement from the cliff the Republicans sent us over last time. Obama wasn't allowed to implement his jobs and infrastructure plans, or implement fixes to the ACA, because the Republicans wanted to block everything and blame it on him.

Now Trump voters will probably end up worse off, but I guess as long as Trump tells them that everything is awesome, they'll probably believe him.

The Affordable Care Act is failing the middle class because it has done nothing to address the root of the issue: costs are out of control. Instead, the ACA just spreads the same outrageous prices around and allows the inflation to continue unabated.

Consider a medical procedure like having a baby. The cost of a routine vaginal delivery can exceed $20,000 in San Fransisco this year (and a C-section is twice that). The same service in other developed countries costs half or less. This is the problem that we desperately need to fix. The cost increases are unsustainable no matter how we try to pay for them.

Premiums have skyrocketed because people are using more health care - but we haven't brought the costs down at all.

Take a very deep breath and hold it for 4 years.

NKD wrote on Nov 9, 2016, 20:57:

Creston wrote on Nov 9, 2016, 20:10:

NKD wrote on Nov 9, 2016, 18:33:
Any hopes for real steps towards universal healthcare are dead.

Repealing Obamacare will be the best thing Trump does.

Not for the millions of low income Americans who will lose coverage, or people getting denied for pre-existing conditions. What would you say to those people? What would your boy Trump do for them in lieu of Obamacare?

Please kindly don't call him "my boy Trump", as I didn't vote for that fucking oompa loompa.

As for the rest, I already basically explained that in my post to Bodolza.

Bodolza wrote on Nov 9, 2016, 20:25:

Creston wrote on Nov 9, 2016, 20:10:
- In the three years of Obamacare, my premium went from 280 to 300 to 400 to 720 (what it would be next year if I kept it..

You have no evidence that your premiums wouldn't have gone up just as much if Obamacare didn't pass.

No, I am not Nostradamus. But from 2002 to 2012, my premiums went up from 180 to 280 a month in total, with little change to deductibles and Out of Pocket Max. In 3 years in Obamacare, they went from 280 to 720, with a 5 times increase in deductible and a triple increase in OOPM.

I shudder to even think what it would be in 2018. A 1000 bucks a month? By 2020 it'll be 10 grand a month?

honestly hope you don't have a pre-existing condition, because if you do, once Obamacare is repealed, you're fucked.

Yes, and that is a big issue. (A YOOGE issue). But bankrupting everyone with healthcare for the sake of those with pre-existing conditions is not a solution. (I think the best solution would be to split off pre-existing conditions into their own pool, but even that's not a great option.)

Btw, I say this as someone WITH a pre-existing condition. So yes, I would lose my healthcare, but it doesn't really matter one way or the other, because I can't afford to pay for it anymore anyway.

Millions of Americans are going to lose their healthcare in a couple months. People are going to die unnecessarily because of what happened last night, and that makes me really sad.

I agree. On the flipside, right now for 2017, there are millions of Americans who can't afford their healthcare anymore, will decide not to get it anymore because they literally won't be able to eat if they do, and then would be TAXED because they apparently "willingly" decide not to get healthcare?

That is not a sustainable system. Especially because it's clear that it's just going to get worse and worse and worse every single year.

This comment was edited on Nov 10, 2016, 09:03.

Cutter wrote on Nov 9, 2016, 23:36:

Rigs wrote on Nov 9, 2016, 22:48:
What a shit show. I will NOT have any problem putting Obamacare in the ground. Unless Trump institutes something even worse...=-Rigs-=

Yeah, socialized medicine sucks. You guys pay $3500 a year on average for it? Barring any major problems your insurance may not cover. You know what I pay? Nothing. You know what everyone else pays in a socialized democracy? Nothing. Oh sure, it comes out of our taxes, but we choose to spend in on important shit like that. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad how right-wing extremists like you guys think something like socialized medicine is pure evil at several billion a year, but wasting a trillion dollars a year - still socialism - on the military industrial complex is just fine. Christ, you clowns don't know whether you're coming or going.

Riiight. Whatever, Cutter. How am I a 'right wing extremist'? I think you're fucking delusional and didn't read anything that I wrote (per usual)!

Go have a drink with Rob Ford or something, you Canadian puck fucker! I'm sure he'll gladly listen to your fluff as he's hittin' that crack pipe some more...hell, maybe he'll even put you on his staff? I'm sure anything you say will sound good through the crack haze, eh?

=-Rigs-=

This comment was edited on Nov 10, 2016, 11:01.

Verno wrote on Nov 9, 2016, 12:37:
Oh right, all of those celebrities might have to emigrate to Canada now I forgot about that. I hope someone does a list to see who makes good on it

They can piss off and go to Mexico or Venezuela instead. We've got enough far-left retards trying to screw us over, we don't need them helping the situation.

jdreyer wrote on Nov 10, 2016, 02:25:

LOL, dude. The Dems weren't kicking blacks, latinos, women, & handicap people out of their rallies. Trump was.

Trump wasn't either. Except when they were agitators, just like the ones that would show up at any other candidates rally. One also can't forget that the DNC had an entire network of paid agitators. That mini-riot in Chicago wearing Sanders t-shirts? Paid clinton work, that comes right out of the DNC and Podesta emails. The guy the other day(who was locked in a bathroom) when Trump was rushed off the stage? Paid agitator, known as a birddog in the Clinton Camp, the guys name and FB profile even shows up in the Podesta emails.

This comment was edited on Nov 10, 2016, 02:57.

Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Nov 10, 2016, 02:10:

Ozmodan wrote on Nov 9, 2016, 17:32:
The funny thing, either Bernie or Joe Biden would have wiped the floor with Trump. It was the democrats fault for putting up a very weak candidate. Personally I thought her position on many of the important policies were worse than Trumps. So maybe the country dodged a bullet.

Yeah, the Dems put up a weak candidate. Can't argue that, but the Republicans put up a guy that wraps himself in the flag and says all the patriotic catchphrases that you can think of, and then attacks a gold star family for exercising their right to free speech after their son gave his life fighting for his country. Yet he is still elected president!!

Doesn't even matter that he's a draft-dodging coward who demeans the sacrifices of our vets by comparing their service to dodging STDs while banging models.

What a fucking great country we live in!! Great choice people!!

On the one hand, I agree. It's inconceivable that Trump got elected. On the other hand, Dems were offering More of the Same, and people both on the left (Bernie) and the right (Trump) had had enough. Even the Dems weren't excited; turnout was down 10% vs. Obama in 2012. If they'd turned out the same for Hill, she'd be prez-elect.

Working class whites have for decades been feeling left out of the party: the oligarchy doesn't include them. Wages have stagnated for 40 years, jobs have disappeared. Billionaire Trump told them what they wanted to hear, he sold them. We'll see if he follows through. I have my doubts, as he's well established in the oligarchy.

Still, Clinton failed to appeal to 40% of the electorate, and it bit her in the ass.

Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Nov 10, 2016, 02:07:
This is disingenuous too. They may not have picked her outright, but the DNC did work against him, and from what we saw in the emails, they were colluding with the media. Preventing Bernie from getting the media coverage he needed is largely what prevented him from getting that critical mass.

I supported Bernie, and liked his policies best. But, c'mon. The dude wasn't even a Democrat until it suited him. You can barely expect a johnny-come-lately to be treated as an equal partner.