Stormsinger wrote on Sep 24, 2016, 18:17:

Verno wrote on Sep 24, 2016, 13:43:

Stormsinger wrote on Sep 23, 2016, 18:51:
I just stopped in to see what the MRAs were raving about this week. Come on guys, this is -way- too tame...I made popcorn and everything!

Come on guys agree with my views or you're a racist/bigot/misogynist

I didn't figure you for one of them, Verno...but with the apparent butthurt, I guess I missed something.

Lumping me in with another crowd because you made a dumb comment sounds more like butthurt but ok. I guess I'll have to find a way to sleep at night but gosh it's going to be tough

Verno wrote on Sep 24, 2016, 13:43:

Stormsinger wrote on Sep 23, 2016, 18:51:
I just stopped in to see what the MRAs were raving about this week. Come on guys, this is -way- too tame...I made popcorn and everything!

Come on guys agree with my views or you're a racist/bigot/misogynist

I didn't figure you for one of them, Verno...but with the apparent butthurt, I guess I missed something.

Stormsinger wrote on Sep 23, 2016, 18:51:
I just stopped in to see what the MRAs were raving about this week. Come on guys, this is -way- too tame...I made popcorn and everything!

Come on guys agree with my views or you're a racist/bigot/misogynist

1badmf wrote on Sep 24, 2016, 00:37:

jdreyer wrote on Sep 23, 2016, 14:45:

Cutter wrote on Sep 23, 2016, 12:41:
I seriously doubt she even remotely understands what that really means. Everytime we hear this bullshit from her it really means 'I want more than my 15 minutes! Give me more money for doing nothing!'

Even though I respect what she (poorly) is trying to do, it's hard to get past this aspect of things. She loves attention. Still, she didn't deserve the hate she got.

i think you're mistaking what she's trying to do. she isn't trying to bring any awareness to feminism in gaming - she's just trying to make money by selling a thin veneer of social outrage. she's not and never has been a gamer and there's a video where she admits it. she doesn't know the first thing about real gaming.

to be clear, i don't believe she gives two fucks about feminist roles in gaming, she's just conning a bunch of naive millennials into giving her money by any means necessary.

Yeesh, dude, that's pretty cynical. Can't it be both? She can be both passionate about what she perceives as a wrong, and thinks she's entitled to cash in on said project.

jdreyer wrote on Sep 23, 2016, 14:45:

Cutter wrote on Sep 23, 2016, 12:41:
I seriously doubt she even remotely understands what that really means. Everytime we hear this bullshit from her it really means 'I want more than my 15 minutes! Give me more money for doing nothing!'

Even though I respect what she (poorly) is trying to do, it's hard to get past this aspect of things. She loves attention. Still, she didn't deserve the hate she got.

i think you're mistaking what she's trying to do. she isn't trying to bring any awareness to feminism in gaming - she's just trying to make money by selling a thin veneer of social outrage. she's not and never has been a gamer and there's a video where she admits it. she doesn't know the first thing about real gaming.

to be clear, i don't believe she gives two fucks about feminist roles in gaming, she's just conning a bunch of naive millennials into giving her money by any means necessary.

Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Sep 23, 2016, 21:27:

Prez wrote on Sep 23, 2016, 20:22:

Also, what are "MRA's"?

Men's Rights Activists: individuals who believe and organize around the principle that the most oppressed and disadvantaged demographic group in contemporary society is straight white males.

What's the Venn diagram for MRAs and Trump supporters?

Verno wrote on Sep 23, 2016, 11:23:
I didn't care for her "work" that I bothered to watch,

She is very poorly trained. There is definitely a space for gender studies and video games but she has made the story more about herself and her "struggles" than anything to do with games.

Prez wrote on Sep 23, 2016, 20:22:

Also, what are "MRA's"?

Men's Rights Activists: individuals who believe and organize around the principle that the most oppressed and disadvantaged demographic group in contemporary society is straight white males.

Stormsinger wrote on Sep 23, 2016, 18:51:
I just stopped in to see what the MRAs were raving about this week. Come on guys, this is -way- too tame...I made popcorn and everything!

While I find her videos laughable, I think the basis of her opinion about women in games has some merit. It's just a shame she presented her arguments so poorly with ridiculous examples and assertions. She also completely failed to offer any real solutions (other than the obvious "design women in games to be more to my liking" theme of her movement, which isn't really helpful...)

I was always far more aggravated at the gaming media for championing her without pointing out the many fallacies in her arguments than I ever was at Sarkeesian herself.

Also, what are "MRA's"?

EndoSkull wrote on Sep 23, 2016, 15:11:

I don't think she should have gotten the hate - what she should have got was nothing at all and left alone to vanish with her ignorance - instead the childish behavior of the internet made her popular and continue to do so.


And by the way - if you harass her - congratulations you made her.

Except the hate she received isn't what she says it is. I don't think Blues posted it, but Crash Override Network kept data on various individuals -- they were being bankrolled (I guess they still are) by Sarkeesian. It turned out that they had no data whatsoever showing that groups like #GamerGate ever harassed her. In fact, they showed no active harassment under her Trello card.

The only known harassers -- actively harassing her -- was that Brazilian guy and Kevin Dobson. Dobson's account was quickly deleted minutes after making the threats.

I know there are plenty of people defending her for one reason or another, but purely looking over the available facts, I can't seem to find the active harassment that she claims she gets. This is not to say that it doesn't happen, but there just isn't enough evidence to support the claims.

I just stopped in to see what the MRAs were raving about this week. Come on guys, this is -way- too tame...I made popcorn and everything!

Parallax Abstraction wrote on Sep 23, 2016, 16:42:

Beamer wrote on Sep 23, 2016, 15:47:
The most common complaint I see of her is "why isn't she showing this game, which doesn't have the trope?!" I mean, it answers the question - it doesn't have the trope! It's like if I watch a Youtube video about cats falling off of TVs and complained that it didn't feature any cats not falling off of TVs to demonstrate that not all cats fall of off TVs.

My complaint is her cherry picking and outright lies in order to suit her agenda. Look up the video where she used Hitman Absolution as an example. As someone who has finished that game, she straight up lied about it and the creator's intentions with the scene she uses.

I don't dislike her because of her arguments, I dislike the fact that she distorts her research and outright lies in order to be able to make the point she wants to make. It's the same kind of crap Michael Moore pulls. But at least Michael Moore didn't take a ton of crowdfunding and donations, only to never finish the project, even years after it was funded. She has still not delivered on all her originally planned episodes and Kickstarter rewards, even though she's now moved on to another project. And especially considering the production quality and hilariously bad research in her videos, it's insane that it's taken this long, given many YouTubers put out better videos on a daily basis. But getting work done means she can't collect tens of thousands of dollars giving woe is me speeches.

If you listen, she isn't discussing solely Hitman. She says "many games" and discusses a few points. She never says "Hitman is an example of all of these."

Beamer wrote on Sep 23, 2016, 15:47:
The most common complaint I see of her is "why isn't she showing this game, which doesn't have the trope?!" I mean, it answers the question - it doesn't have the trope! It's like if I watch a Youtube video about cats falling off of TVs and complained that it didn't feature any cats not falling off of TVs to demonstrate that not all cats fall of off TVs.

My complaint is her cherry picking and outright lies in order to suit her agenda. Look up the video where she used Hitman Absolution as an example. As someone who has finished that game, she straight up lied about it and the creator's intentions with the scene she uses.

I don't dislike her because of her arguments, I dislike the fact that she distorts her research and outright lies in order to be able to make the point she wants to make. It's the same kind of crap Michael Moore pulls. But at least Michael Moore didn't take a ton of crowdfunding and donations, only to never finish the project, even years after it was funded. She has still not delivered on all her originally planned episodes and Kickstarter rewards, even though she's now moved on to another project. And especially considering the production quality and hilariously bad research in her videos, it's insane that it's taken this long, given many YouTubers put out better videos on a daily basis. But getting work done means she can't collect tens of thousands of dollars giving woe is me speeches.

jdreyer wrote on Sep 23, 2016, 14:45:

Cutter wrote on Sep 23, 2016, 12:41:
I seriously doubt she even remotely understands what that really means. Everytime we hear this bullshit from her it really means 'I want more than my 15 minutes! Give me more money for doing nothing!'

Even though I respect what she (poorly) is trying to do, it's hard to get past this aspect of things. She loves attention. Still, she didn't deserve the hate she got.

She deserves it and more. She's a grifter and completely immoral. She painted a huge fuckin' bullseye on herself because she so desperately wants fame and fortune she'd stoop to any level to attain it. If I was a gamblin' man I'd be wagering money she's a clinical sociopath.

EndoSkull wrote on Sep 23, 2016, 15:11:
I have no respect for her at all.
Originally I was interested in the original kickstarter - I thought it might be interesting - it turned out to be an agenda with bias research and ignorance.

This kind of cracks me up, though. She didn't say "I'm going to do a careful evaluation of how women are treated in video games, and compare it to how everyone is," she said "This video project will explore, analyze and deconstruct some of the most common tropes and stereotypes of female characters in games. The series will highlight the larger recurring patterns and conventions used within the gaming industry rather than just focusing on the worst offenders."

That says right there "I'm looking at tropes and stereotypes, which means a bias. I'm not showcasing games that don't have the tropes or stereotypes, because this isn't about women in gaming, it's about tropes and stereotypes about women in gaming."

The most common complaint I see of her is "why isn't she showing this game, which doesn't have the trope?!" I mean, it answers the question - it doesn't have the trope! It's like if I watch a Youtube video about cats falling off of TVs and complained that it didn't feature any cats not falling off of TVs to demonstrate that not all cats fall of off TVs.

I have no respect for her at all.
Originally I was interested in the original kickstarter - I thought it might be interesting - it turned out to be an agenda with bias research and ignorance.

I don't think she should have gotten the hate - what she should have got was nothing at all and left alone to vanish with her ignorance - instead the childish behavior of the internet made her popular and continue to do so.


And by the way - if you harass her - congratulations you made her.

Cutter wrote on Sep 23, 2016, 12:41:
I seriously doubt she even remotely understands what that really means. Everytime we hear this bullshit from her it really means 'I want more than my 15 minutes! Give me more money for doing nothing!'

Even though I respect what she (poorly) is trying to do, it's hard to get past this aspect of things. She loves attention. Still, she didn't deserve the hate she got.

Prez wrote on Sep 23, 2016, 11:21:
I had just been thinking to myself recently that we haven't heard anything from Anita Sarkeesian lately. So I guess this is my fault. Sorry everyone.

Kind of like the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man? One stray though willed her into being?

I seriously doubt she even remotely understands what that really means. Everytime we hear this bullshit from her it really means 'I want more than my 15 minutes! Give me more money for doing nothing!'

Prez wrote on Sep 23, 2016, 11:21:
I had just been thinking to myself recently that we haven't heard anything from Anita Sarkeesian lately. So I guess this is my fault. Sorry everyone.

What did you do, Ray Prez!?