Op Ed

WIRED - Hey, Here’s an Idea: Maybe Stop Preordering Videogames.
"Just to name one example, if you go to the Penny Arcade Expo convention in Seattle this weekend, Nintendo will be recruiting players visiting its booth to place a preorder for the new Pokemon games by offering “a collectable gift.” Today’s preorder campaigns start early and get flogged hard. Square Enix is promising Final Fantasy fans a boatload of physical and digital exclusive bonus items if they would only pay full price, sight unseen, for a game that’s spent 10 years in development hell. What could possibly go wrong?"

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39 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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39.
 
Re: What ever happened to Shareware?
Sep 5, 2016, 09:03
39.
Re: What ever happened to Shareware? Sep 5, 2016, 09:03
Sep 5, 2016, 09:03
 
Bub wrote on Sep 1, 2016, 07:58:
I guess that's what happens from when you move from making games because you love them and want them to be great to moving to corporate 'lets only market to the masses' mindset, forget enthusiasts, lets just rope in as many clods as we can.

Not surprised to see this from an Axis re-reg. I'm sure you go to work every day and give away the fruits of your labor too. What a fuckin ridiculous argument. They gave away pieces of the level because the shareware market was the only way to get people to buy them, not because they wanted to. I guess you've conveniently forgot about all of the piracy from back then too.
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38.
 
Re: What ever happened to Shareware?
Sep 1, 2016, 11:28
38.
Re: What ever happened to Shareware? Sep 1, 2016, 11:28
Sep 1, 2016, 11:28
 
Bub wrote on Sep 1, 2016, 07:58:
I guess that's what happens from when you move from making games because you love them and want them to be great to moving to corporate 'lets only market to the masses' mindset, forget enthusiasts, lets just rope in as many clods as we can.


Yes, it's because they sold-out. Right...

Nothing to do with the fact that the Duke Nukem 3d development team was all of 14 people - and now most modern games have bigger QA teams.

It's the same thing as music though. It's super easy to be passionate and 100% personally invested when it's only affecting a handful of people. But just like any other creative endeavor when you have success you start having more dependents and the ability to take risks diminishes. It's not about only marketing to the masses, it's about taking safer bets.

Or should the creative types continue to starve for their whole lives so the consumer can benefit from uncompromised artistic integrity (never mind the actual cost of the creative's well being).
37.
 
Re: What ever happened to Shareware?
Sep 1, 2016, 08:59
37.
Re: What ever happened to Shareware? Sep 1, 2016, 08:59
Sep 1, 2016, 08:59
 
Bub wrote on Sep 1, 2016, 07:58:
I thought one of the most successful marketing methods was how the original Doom, Descent, and Duke Nukem basically gave out free copies of the full first several levels. That was confidence in their product and you knew when you paid for the full game what your were getting.

I guess that's what happens from when you move from making games because you love them and want them to be great to moving to corporate 'lets only market to the masses' mindset, forget enthusiasts, lets just rope in as many clods as we can.

If they did it out of love, would it be a marketing move?

Your "assuming the best about something I loved and the worst about something I don't" is, at best, misguided.
36.
 
What ever happened to Shareware?
Sep 1, 2016, 07:58
Bub
36.
What ever happened to Shareware? Sep 1, 2016, 07:58
Sep 1, 2016, 07:58
Bub
 
I thought one of the most successful marketing methods was how the original Doom, Descent, and Duke Nukem basically gave out free copies of the full first several levels. That was confidence in their product and you knew when you paid for the full game what your were getting.

I guess that's what happens from when you move from making games because you love them and want them to be great to moving to corporate 'lets only market to the masses' mindset, forget enthusiasts, lets just rope in as many clods as we can.
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"There is a sucker born every minute." - PT Barnum
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35.
 
Re: Op Ed
Sep 1, 2016, 07:12
35.
Re: Op Ed Sep 1, 2016, 07:12
Sep 1, 2016, 07:12
 
Suppa7 wrote on Sep 1, 2016, 05:05:
RedEye9 wrote on Aug 31, 2016, 17:18:
Take Half Life from the 1998 magazine archive mentioned earlier. 48.99 in chips-n-bits. Adjusted for http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ makes it over $70 today.

Can't believe the regular punters claiming they would just steal pirate it have not posted in this thread yet.

Games are getting cheaper, clueless old senile whiners are getting whinier.

I'm sorry to tell you but this is bad reasoning, the market for video games has expanded since the 1980's. So you can't compare costs directly without taking into account market size. AKA it could very well be that games WERE cheaper in the 80's vs the size of the market then, it's an illusion.

Also there's tonnes of new negative things today, games are released unfinished because with the expansion of the market the lower half of the bell curve in intelligence came online. AKA the people who pre-order games and are fucking irrational. The people who feed f2p games and online drm.

Games in the 80s were also typically made by 1-5 people. Today, it's more like 100-1,000.
34.
 
Re: Op Ed
Sep 1, 2016, 05:05
34.
Re: Op Ed Sep 1, 2016, 05:05
Sep 1, 2016, 05:05
 
RedEye9 wrote on Aug 31, 2016, 17:18:
Take Half Life from the 1998 magazine archive mentioned earlier. 48.99 in chips-n-bits. Adjusted for http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ makes it over $70 today.

Can't believe the regular punters claiming they would just steal pirate it have not posted in this thread yet.

Games are getting cheaper, clueless old senile whiners are getting whinier.

I'm sorry to tell you but this is bad reasoning, the market for video games has expanded since the 1980's. So you can't compare costs directly without taking into account market size. AKA it could very well be that games WERE cheaper in the 80's vs the size of the market then, it's an illusion.

Also there's tonnes of new negative things today, games are released unfinished because with the expansion of the market the lower half of the bell curve in intelligence came online. AKA the people who pre-order games and are fucking irrational. The people who feed f2p games and online drm.
33.
 
Re: Op Ed
Aug 31, 2016, 22:21
Quboid
 
33.
Re: Op Ed Aug 31, 2016, 22:21
Aug 31, 2016, 22:21
 Quboid
 
Kxmode wrote on Aug 31, 2016, 19:11:
Jivaro wrote on Aug 31, 2016, 13:41:
Now..season passes...those should burn in hell. Specifically the ones that don't detail completely what all of the promised DLC will include. But that's another discussion....

Are season passes preorders for DLC content?

Effectively yes. A season pass is typically all the DLC so you're preordering any DLC which hasn't been released yet.

It can be useful after all the DLC has been released. I own Fallout 4 but none of the DLC so if I was to replay it now, the season pass may be cheaper than either buying the DLC separately or buying a GOTY edition (and paying for a 2nd copy of the base FO4 game).
Avatar 10439
32.
 
Re: Op Ed
Aug 31, 2016, 19:11
Kxmode
 
32.
Re: Op Ed Aug 31, 2016, 19:11
Aug 31, 2016, 19:11
 Kxmode
 
Jivaro wrote on Aug 31, 2016, 13:41:
Now..season passes...those should burn in hell. Specifically the ones that don't detail completely what all of the promised DLC will include. But that's another discussion....

Are season passes preorders for DLC content?
"...and in stonks, Fizzy Squeezy Stocklebocks leaped over Droopy Whoopy Bondfluffs, hitting 300-gigglebits to their 150-snorebucks. Meanwhile, in Whimsyland's market, the pancakes reached parity with pogo sticks."
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31.
 
Re: Op Ed
Aug 31, 2016, 19:09
Kxmode
 
31.
Re: Op Ed Aug 31, 2016, 19:09
Aug 31, 2016, 19:09
 Kxmode
 
jdreyer wrote on Aug 31, 2016, 13:12:
Tipsy McStagger wrote on Aug 31, 2016, 12:39:
I honestly believe that this will never stop. People are just too responsive to Hype.

Young, naive people are susceptible to hype. Oh, and Kxmode.


I've changed my ways! Promise.
"...and in stonks, Fizzy Squeezy Stocklebocks leaped over Droopy Whoopy Bondfluffs, hitting 300-gigglebits to their 150-snorebucks. Meanwhile, in Whimsyland's market, the pancakes reached parity with pogo sticks."
Avatar 18786
30.
 
Re: Op Ed
Aug 31, 2016, 19:07
Kxmode
 
30.
Re: Op Ed Aug 31, 2016, 19:07
Aug 31, 2016, 19:07
 Kxmode
 
As a recent convert to the "Don't Preorder" mindset, I thought NMS would've been the nail in the coffin for preorders. At least for me, it was.
"...and in stonks, Fizzy Squeezy Stocklebocks leaped over Droopy Whoopy Bondfluffs, hitting 300-gigglebits to their 150-snorebucks. Meanwhile, in Whimsyland's market, the pancakes reached parity with pogo sticks."
Avatar 18786
29.
 
Re: Op Ed
Aug 31, 2016, 18:36
Quboid
 
29.
Re: Op Ed Aug 31, 2016, 18:36
Aug 31, 2016, 18:36
 Quboid
 
Beamer wrote on Aug 31, 2016, 15:18:
Jivaro wrote on Aug 31, 2016, 15:02:
Weird, my memory says 20-25 years ago games were 40-50 bucks at launch. Doom 2 was $49.99 at Sam's Club, for example.

Pretty certain that, when I finally tracked down a copy of Jagged Alliance (it took calling about 10 stores), I ended up having to pay $60 for it, making my poor dad drive god knows how far to a place he knew would rip me off. But, having finished the demo, and knowing it was the only copy within miles...

We can prove this, though, right? CGW is archived online. At random, I chose September, 1997. This kind of cracks me up because this one has an editorial from someone saying video games need to grow up and stop marketing themselves solely at undersexed teenage boys, but regardless, Chips and Bits is on page 290. New releases seem to be $42 to $52 (for Red Baron II on CD, possibly the biggest disappointment I'd ever had gaming.) Starfleet Acadamy is $56. Starcraft is $46. Quake is $49. Quake 2 preorder is $52.

FWIW, $50 in 1997 is worth $74.97 now. 50% inflation, and cheaper games now.

There could be differences in exchange rate or taxes that affect Canada but I'll leave Cutter's research to him.
Avatar 10439
28.
 
Re: Op Ed
Aug 31, 2016, 18:01
PHJF
 
28.
Re: Op Ed Aug 31, 2016, 18:01
Aug 31, 2016, 18:01
 PHJF
 
I mean, sure, I could have waited a week and then paid full price for Deus Ex: Mankind Divided

It's $45 on GMG at this moment.
Steam + PSN: PHJF
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27.
 
Re: Op Ed
Aug 31, 2016, 17:30
27.
Re: Op Ed Aug 31, 2016, 17:30
Aug 31, 2016, 17:30
 
RedEye9 wrote on Aug 31, 2016, 17:18:
Take Half Life from the 1998 magazine archive mentioned earlier. 48.99 in chips-n-bits. Adjusted for http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ makes it over $70 today.

Can't believe the regular punters claiming they would just steal pirate it have not posted in this thread yet.

Games are getting cheaper, clueless old senile whiners are getting whinier.

NES games were frequently $50. $50 in 1988 is $100 today.

When SMB3 came out, my mom dragged me all over humanity looking for it. We found it at a kiosk in the mall. A damn kiosk. I'm pretty certain they charged her $70 for it, and she bought the last two (knowing several friends' mothers were looking for the same game and one would be very happy to have it.)
26.
 
Re: Op Ed
Aug 31, 2016, 17:18
26.
Re: Op Ed Aug 31, 2016, 17:18
Aug 31, 2016, 17:18
 
Take Half Life from the 1998 magazine archive mentioned earlier. 48.99 in chips-n-bits. Adjusted for http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ makes it over $70 today.

Can't believe the regular punters claiming they would just steal pirate it have not posted in this thread yet.

Games are getting cheaper, clueless old senile whiners are getting whinier.
"I expect death to be nothingness and by removing from me all possible fears of death, I am thankful to atheism." Isaac Asimov
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25.
 
Re: Op Ed
Aug 31, 2016, 17:15
25.
Re: Op Ed Aug 31, 2016, 17:15
Aug 31, 2016, 17:15
 
Regarding whether or not you should pre-order... how bout simply having some standards and learning patterns.

But... this is a world where Molyneux was able to get away with outright lying for 15 years before he was outted from the industry, where Shafer was clearly incapable of running a business for 15 years before people got sick of his sh*t, where Shyamalan still gets picked as a writer/director, and people are passionately pissed about No Man's Sky even after YEARS of VERY DIRECT clues... so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised... at all.

F*ck people are stupid.
24.
 
Re: Op Ed
Aug 31, 2016, 17:12
24.
Re: Op Ed Aug 31, 2016, 17:12
Aug 31, 2016, 17:12
 
jdreyer wrote on Aug 31, 2016, 16:55:
Cutter wrote on Aug 31, 2016, 15:36:
Games are hella more expensive now - triple A at least. Even 3 years ago we were on par with the US now we pay $20 more a game. Over a 30% increase in price in just 3 years. And they wonder why we flock to G2A and the like.

LOL, you pull these stats out of your ass, and no wonder, they smell like it. Evidence or GTFO.

A AAA game was $50 at launch 15 years ago, as Beam just demonstrated. Today, they are $60, which is basically the same after adjusting for inflation.

Dude they were 50 bucks 25-to-30 years ago. I know Cutter talks out of his ass... a LOT... but this is stupid even for him. Yes, there was a slight bump recently (where AAA PC games went from 50 to 60) but overall the price of games is ridiculously low.

Cutter, if you know how to search for information on the internet, I highly recommend you look for an Arstechnica article entitled "Why retail console games have never been cheaper, historically". Find a 10 year old if you don't know how to use the internet to find facts, they'll learn ya.

Sorry man... I couldn't resist (I won't lie, I didn't want to)... that was just *REALLY*... *REALLY* stupid.
23.
 
Re: Op Ed
Aug 31, 2016, 16:55
23.
Re: Op Ed Aug 31, 2016, 16:55
Aug 31, 2016, 16:55
 
Cutter wrote on Aug 31, 2016, 15:36:
Games are hella more expensive now - triple A at least. Even 3 years ago we were on par with the US now we pay $20 more a game. Over a 30% increase in price in just 3 years. And they wonder why we flock to G2A and the like.

LOL, you pull these stats out of your ass, and no wonder, they smell like it. Evidence or GTFO.

A AAA game was $50 at launch 15 years ago, as Beam just demonstrated. Today, they are $60, which is basically the same after adjusting for inflation.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
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22.
 
Re: Op Ed
Aug 31, 2016, 16:29
22.
Re: Op Ed Aug 31, 2016, 16:29
Aug 31, 2016, 16:29
 
Beamer wrote on Aug 31, 2016, 16:09:
You mention Arkham Knight. I can't remember, that was port issues, right?

Yeah, that was the one where they stopped selling it for six months because of how terrible it was. It's often mentioned as an example of why people should never preorder, but it was a game that had two good previous versions already, so it's easy to see why people would bite on it.

And yeah, the PS4 version is great.
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21.
 
Re: Op Ed
Aug 31, 2016, 16:26
21.
Re: Op Ed Aug 31, 2016, 16:26
Aug 31, 2016, 16:26
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Aug 31, 2016, 14:41:
So you have a larger pool to cash in on now than at any other time in history.

Everyone else addressed the pricing thing.

That pool is now divided even more than it ever was. Like it or not mobile phones count for a large portion of the industry same as consoles. While the returns are much greater from a very high level perspective that doesn't mean it's a even increase across the board.

Using platforms like Unity is a necessity to be competitive now. UE only went 'free' after Unity established itself as a viable alternative. Otherwise, if memory serves me correctly, a commercial UE license was about a million a few years ago.

But again it all boils back down to personal responsibility. There's no reason for any company to not offer pre-orders. There's also no reason for a consumer to let themselves get suckered. If you have any doubts or are tight on money, then just don't pre-order.

I mean really, when is the last time there were actual shortages of physical copies at launch?
20.
 
Re: Op Ed
Aug 31, 2016, 16:09
20.
Re: Op Ed Aug 31, 2016, 16:09
Aug 31, 2016, 16:09
 
Creston wrote on Aug 31, 2016, 15:53:
Avus wrote on Aug 31, 2016, 14:00:
I said this many times, pre-order games in the era digital distribution age is beyond stupid.

Even for a 25% discount? On a game that you know you'll get anyway, and are 99% sure you're going to love?

I mean, sure, I could have waited a week and then paid full price for Deus Ex: Mankind Divided. I kind of liked having the 15 bucks off. That's pizza money! I also like being able to preload, as my internet, while not as slow as it used to be (when it would have taken me five days to download), would still take like 4-5 hours, which is time I can spend playing it instead.

Of course, then you get crap like Batman Arkham Knight...


The list someone posted below was an interesting one to me. It was all sequels. It was all sequels in franchises known to not change very much. I get why people would preorder that - those are safe buys. They probably won't be the most amazing games ever (though they may be), but the expectations for them are pretty grounded, the devs have delivered before (with more or less the same product), and people will be easier to satisfy unless there's a huge flaw.

You mention Arkham Knight. I can't remember, that was port issues, right? Metacritic is great for it for consoles. I think I bought it cheap in the last Steam sale and will get to it, but typically that's the type of game I'd do console only.

And yes, a 25% off is worth the risk to me for many games. Especially if you can still get it after reviews start trickling out.
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