nin wrote on Aug 5, 2016, 09:54:

Zanthar wrote on Aug 5, 2016, 09:43:
So many cry babies in the world today. This is what happens when we don't have World Wars on a regular basis to purge the weak and stupid.

Thanks, Clint!

I rate that zinger 10/10. Bravo!

nin wrote on Aug 5, 2016, 09:54:

Zanthar wrote on Aug 5, 2016, 09:43:
So many cry babies in the world today. This is what happens when we don't have World Wars on a regular basis to purge the weak and stupid.

Thanks, Clint!

Go ahead... make my day.

Zanthar wrote on Aug 5, 2016, 09:43:
So many cry babies in the world today. This is what happens when we don't have World Wars on a regular basis to purge the weak and stupid.

Thanks, Clint!

So many cry babies in the world today. This is what happens when we don't have World Wars on a regular basis to purge the weak and stupid.

Inevitably the dystopic games simply mirror our world more and more, because that is what is happening on a parallel level. Also interesting that people leave out any mention of Palestine in reference to Apartheid - since after all, they are viewed as sub-human and don't matter. Even South African Ambassadors call what Israel does by name, Apartheid. And just like when Native Americans fought back until the very end, they are defined as savages for doing so. These games are about the rise of Fascism and largely not learning from History. One Fascism replaces another Fascism, Power seeks to Divide, Conquer, and Confuse the population against one another. The first Deus Ex game, U.S. Separatists are labeled "Terrorists" while in the new Deus Ex games, 1%, corporations, and conspiracies win, people are subjugated and then are labeled when pushed to the brink.

* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on Aug 4, 2016, 20:01.

jdreyer wrote on Aug 4, 2016, 16:17:

Tumbler wrote on Aug 4, 2016, 15:02:
Doesn't "Aug lives matter" fit all to well? The story is about augmented people not being treated as human or worse...? Assuming Aug lives matter is said seriously in the game that seems ok. Assuming black lives matter accomplishes something people would Co opt in the future for their own cause.

I agree. I don't think it's out of place.

Although, there are a lot of people out there that wrongly think blacks are trying to make themselves special and get special treatment through the BLM movement. So you're going to get pushback for such a politically charged phrase.

It makes sense in the context of the game, from what I know of it. Using it on marketing, referencing current events where people are dying, is a bit tacky especially if they were intentionally courting controversy.

Not saying this is trivial (except I am, because it is) but I'm honestly more bothered by the apparent bad grammar. It should be either "Augs' Lives Matter" or "Aug Lives Matter", depending on whether it means "Augmented People's Lives" or "Augmented Lives".

Tumbler wrote on Aug 4, 2016, 15:02:
Doesn't "Aug lives matter" fit all to well? The story is about augmented people not being treated as human or worse...? Assuming Aug lives matter is said seriously in the game that seems ok. Assuming black lives matter accomplishes something people would Co opt in the future for their own cause.

I agree. I don't think it's out of place.

Although, there are a lot of people out there that wrongly think blacks are trying to make themselves special and get special treatment through the BLM movement. So you're going to get pushback for such a politically charged phrase.

That isn't even a "lexicon" definition. The OED definition of apartheid is very specifically "segregation based on race". It's not a word that can accurately be applied to mere segregation based on random other factors.

CJ_Parker wrote on Aug 4, 2016, 13:01:

Quboid wrote on Aug 4, 2016, 11:01:
It is rather cack-handed marketing. Is there a specific 'apartheid' controversy, or is it just that the game includes segregation? I'm in favour of games tackling such issues even if the result is likely to be a bit of a caricature.

The controversy is or was that they were calling it "apartheid" which stands for a unique kind of segregation and lots of injustice and suffering in South Africa.
I don't think that anyone had a problem with the segregation theme per se (many games/RPGs had those in the past) but only with using the term apartheid which probably should not be tampered with in this way.

The word apartheid has entered the lexicon as a general synonym for segregation.

CJ_Parker wrote on Aug 4, 2016, 15:05:
I disagree with that. Holocaust is also just an old Greek word but it has become synonymous with the genocide of the Jews in WW2. Likewise, Apartheid has become synonymous with extreme racial segregation and prejudice.

That's a very fair point, but on the flipside, the fact that the genocide of the Jews in WW2 is referred to as the Holocaust doesn't mean the word can't ever be used again. It is used in different contexts. So to say that the word apartheid can't ever be used for anything else ever again seems weird.

Those terms, imo, should not be used lightly in inflationary ways especially not in video games where you have a very high chance that some dumb kids will think that racial segregation in South Africa has been named after the video game Deus Ex MD and not vice versa ("d00d the game is so popular they have even named real life shit after it!!!11").

Yeah, but by that benchmark we can't use any more words ever. Let's not start making rules just to protect ignorance.

The dev should use their creativity and come up with a term of their own. Not that hard and problem solved.

But if they call it Florpheid, nobody will know what it means, and it has no resonance. Justified or not, Apartheid evokes an image of brutal and often violent segregation, which judging from the trailers is exactly what's being shown in DE:MD.

I don't see an issue with using it again, same as I wouldn't see an issue with something else being referred to as a holocaust (as long as it isn't referred to as THE Holocaust.)

Holocaust is used in other contexts, such as nuclear holocaust. I view the word apartheid in similar light; clearly associated with one particular case but still with the wider meaning. Ground Zero and D-Day are other examples.

If the segregation in the game is done right then I don't think there is any problem at all. I don't follow "especially not in video games" at all, why would video games be held to a different standard to other media?

People getting it the wrong way around are idiots and should not be pandered too.

Creston wrote on Aug 4, 2016, 14:39:

CJ_Parker wrote on Aug 4, 2016, 13:01:

Quboid wrote on Aug 4, 2016, 11:01:
It is rather cack-handed marketing. Is there a specific 'apartheid' controversy, or is it just that the game includes segregation? I'm in favour of games tackling such issues even if the result is likely to be a bit of a caricature.

The controversy is or was that they were calling it "apartheid" which stands for a unique kind of segregation and lots of injustice and suffering in South Africa.
I don't think that anyone had a problem with the segregation theme per se (many games/RPGs had those in the past) but only with using the term apartheid which probably should not be tampered with in this way.

Which I think is much hand wringing over nothing anyway. Apartheid is simply the Dutch word for segregation, so it being called Apartheid in South Africa isn't because of some kind of special feeling or the idea that the struggle there was worse than elsewhere, that's just what it's called in Dutch, and thus what it's called in Afrikaans. (which is basically a dialect of Dutch.)

So while it's weird that people in the US would call the Aug segregation "apartheid", the whining over how that diminishes the struggle in south africa is just ugh. There must be an entire segment of the population now that literally does nothing else but find shit to be offended about on the internet.

I disagree with that. Holocaust is also just an old Greek word but it has become synonymous with the genocide of the Jews in WW2. Likewise, Apartheid has become synonymous with extreme racial segregation and prejudice.

Those terms, imo, should not be used lightly in inflationary ways especially not in video games where you have a very high chance that some dumb kids will think that racial segregation in South Africa has been named after the video game Deus Ex MD and not vice versa ("d00d the game is so popular they have even named real life shit after it!!!11").

The dev should use their creativity and come up with a term of their own. Not that hard and problem solved.

Doesn't "Aug lives matter" fit all to well? The story is about augmented people not being treated as human or worse...? Assuming Aug lives matter is said seriously in the game that seems ok. Assuming black lives matter accomplishes something people would Co opt in the future for their own cause.

CJ_Parker wrote on Aug 4, 2016, 13:01:

Quboid wrote on Aug 4, 2016, 11:01:
It is rather cack-handed marketing. Is there a specific 'apartheid' controversy, or is it just that the game includes segregation? I'm in favour of games tackling such issues even if the result is likely to be a bit of a caricature.

The controversy is or was that they were calling it "apartheid" which stands for a unique kind of segregation and lots of injustice and suffering in South Africa.
I don't think that anyone had a problem with the segregation theme per se (many games/RPGs had those in the past) but only with using the term apartheid which probably should not be tampered with in this way.

Which I think is much hand wringing over nothing anyway. Apartheid is simply the Dutch word for segregation, so it being called Apartheid in South Africa isn't because of some kind of special feeling or the idea that the struggle there was worse than elsewhere, that's just what it's called in Dutch, and thus what it's called in Afrikaans. (which is basically a dialect of Dutch.)

So while it's weird that people in the US would call the Aug segregation "apartheid", the whining over how that diminishes the struggle in south africa is just ugh. There must be an entire segment of the population now that literally does nothing else but find shit to be offended about on the internet.

Thanks CJ_Parker, nin, there is more to it than I knew.

Quboid wrote on Aug 4, 2016, 11:01:
It is rather cack-handed marketing. Is there a specific 'apartheid' controversy, or is it just that the game includes segregation? I'm in favour of games tackling such issues even if the result is likely to be a bit of a caricature.

The controversy is or was that they were calling it "apartheid" which stands for a unique kind of segregation and lots of injustice and suffering in South Africa.
I don't think that anyone had a problem with the segregation theme per se (many games/RPGs had those in the past) but only with using the term apartheid which probably should not be tampered with in this way.

JayDeath wrote on Aug 4, 2016, 12:14:
The reference is coincidental. Ha!

Yeah, I don't believe that for a second.

The reference is coincidental. Ha!

Quboid wrote on Aug 4, 2016, 11:01:
It is rather cack-handed marketing. Is there a specific 'apartheid' controversy, or is it just that the game includes segregation? I'm in favour of games tackling such issues even if the result is likely to be a bit of a caricature.

https://www.bluesnews.com/s/162526/morning-interviews

https://www.bluesnews.com/s/171888/deus-ex-mankind-divided-live-action-trailer