13 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
Newer [  1  ] Older
13.
 
Re: Evening Metaverse
Jul 19, 2016, 09:56
13.
Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 19, 2016, 09:56
Jul 19, 2016, 09:56
 
VaranDragon wrote on Jul 19, 2016, 09:34:
Hey Erazer, you seem to be conveniently forgetting or misrepresenting a large part of what happened in your country's history. Here is a good documentary that's pretty much spot on with regards to how and why Hitler could do what he did in Germany at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KiD4Sps48U

It's a good documentary But I think we are confusing each other now.. I never said he is the next Hitler, I said he is creating the environment where the next Hitler could gain power. Nazi Germany, aka the Nazi party, had tons of staged trials against political opposition, and they brought down real democracy well before Hitler became Reichskanzler. I guess we'll see how it turns out in Turkey, but Erdogan himself said he takes inspiration from Hitler

Anyway, no point arguing about it.. as I said, if there are indeed fair trials post coup then I stand corrected. And that means none of them can receive the death penalty. Since they already committed the crimes (if any) and a punishment for an already committed crime can not be legally changed
Avatar 54727
12.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 19, 2016, 09:36
12.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 19, 2016, 09:36
Jul 19, 2016, 09:36
 
As someone who tries to keep up with geopolitical events and domestic affairs in the U.S., I suspect most Americans simply follow along and nod with what CNN tells them. If you want juicy Erdogan details then look for directly translated news sources.

- Erdogan/Hitler comparison is literally because he himself stated he is a fan of how Hitler used "Democracy" to become a leader (I.e. effective propaganda)
- He has purged judges, and other branches of government to create "loyalty." The Military was already purged prior.
- In the past journalists were arrested for going against his party (best Democracy) or simply making fun of him such as comparing him to Gollum.
- The coup itself may have been staged as TOP EU politicians have stated
- Erdogans son is suspected in laundering stolen Syrian Oil that is directly transported by ISIS loyalist s
- Erdogans party has been implicated in selling arms to ISIS and providing training (although several countries are implicated)
- For centuries, Turkey's Military has been the last line of defense in case a politician attempts to circumvent Democracy to turn Turkey non-Secular.
- Translated news is showing that people are blindly following in line, believing the arrests are to preserve "Democracy" and chanting in the streets for all 20,000 to be executed because "Democracy." Erdogans is quoted as saying "If the will of the people are calling for executions, then that is what we must do" (mmmmm gotta love "Democracy")

So yeah he is not Hitler, but rather a two-bit phoney POS politician dictator wannabe utilizing Democracy against itself. As long as you repeat something over and over, people will believe it ;). I wrote this in haste, since I'm on my phone.

This comment was edited on Jul 19, 2016, 09:43.
Avatar 37119
11.
 
Re: Evening Metaverse
Jul 19, 2016, 09:35
11.
Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 19, 2016, 09:35
Jul 19, 2016, 09:35
 
VaranDragon wrote on Jul 19, 2016, 09:13:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 19, 2016, 00:43:

In German we even have a phrase for that. "Nacht der langen Messer"


Really? How many trials did Hitler organise after that night? Oh yeah, none. Which is more likely? That Erdogan himself staged that coup, organizing a conspiracy of thousands who are now willingly facing trial for him, as convenient scapegoats? Or that an outside power with ties to Turkey's elites financed and organized the coup, something that has been factually documented in the Middle East since the Ottoman Empire...

Yeah Im gonna go ahead and safely use Occam's razor on this one.

Fair enough, fact is history will be the judge... and history would show you that what Erdogan is doing now is 1:1 what the NSDAP was doing, albeit over a much longer time period. So if we actually see 20000 fair trials then I take it back.. but somehow I really doubt that In fact I am pretty sure those 3000 judges will never be seen again...
Avatar 54727
10.
 
Re: Evening Metaverse
Jul 19, 2016, 09:34
10.
Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 19, 2016, 09:34
Jul 19, 2016, 09:34
 
Hey Erazer, you seem to be conveniently forgetting or misrepresenting a large part of what happened in your country's history. Here is a good documentary that's pretty much spot on with regards to how and why Hitler could do what he did in Germany at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KiD4Sps48U
Avatar 58327
9.
 
Re: Evening Metaverse
Jul 19, 2016, 09:25
9.
Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 19, 2016, 09:25
Jul 19, 2016, 09:25
 
jdreyer wrote on Jul 19, 2016, 04:33:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 19, 2016, 00:43:
Task wrote on Jul 18, 2016, 23:13:
20,000 arrested. Would have needed pre-planned arrest lists for such nonsense.

“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.” - George Orwell

In German we even have a phrase for that. "Nacht der langen Messer"

To be honest, to me Turkey isn't a democracy and never was. And now the masks are falling and Erdogan shows his true face. That of someone who wants to become Sultan.

And why should you worry? Because this is *EXACTLY* how Nazi Germany came to be. Albeit in case of Turkey this now happens 20 times faster.

Remember, Hitler was also "elected" but it was anything but a democratic vote. In an atmosphere of fear and oppression, of violent mob rule and murders of political enemies, there can be no such thing as democracy.


Look, I have no love of Erdogan, but comparing him to Hitler is not useful. Although Turkey has one of the more formidable militaries in the world, they're not going to start steamrolling their neighbors or start programs of ethnic cleansing.

And while he is hated by vast swaths of the Turkish population, even the opposition turned out in support of Erdogan and against the coup.

As for arresting 20,000, that could be as simple as "Group A opposed us, so arrest them all. Same for groups B, D, and E." In a country of 75M, 20K is not very many.

I compared the currently employed methods to how Nazi Germany came to be, as in, the system that lead to mass oppression and hard repression against any opposition and which cemented the 1 men rule...

And no ethnic cleansing? Kurds would disagree, very strongly or do you think it's just an accident weapon shipments to IS took place who just randomly happened to be fighting Kurds at the time?
Avatar 54727
8.
 
Re: Evening Metaverse
Jul 19, 2016, 09:13
8.
Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 19, 2016, 09:13
Jul 19, 2016, 09:13
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 19, 2016, 00:43:

In German we even have a phrase for that. "Nacht der langen Messer"


Really? How many trials did Hitler organise after that night? Oh yeah, none. Which is more likely? That Erdogan himself staged that coup, organizing a conspiracy of thousands who are now willingly facing trial for him, as convenient scapegoats? Or that an outside power with ties to Turkey's elites financed and organized the coup, something that has been factually documented in the Middle East since the Ottoman Empire...

Yeah Im gonna go ahead and safely use Occam's razor on this one.
Avatar 58327
7.
 
Re: Evening Metaverse
Jul 19, 2016, 08:32
7.
Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 19, 2016, 08:32
Jul 19, 2016, 08:32
 
A lot of people talking about shit going down in Turkey, but how many of you have actually been in Turkey? Fact of the matter is that Erdogan is hugely popular in Turkey, except with a part of the elites, which is why the coup was attempted in the first place and why it was doomed to failure.

I wouldnt be surprised if the US and EU had something to do with it too. They dislike a muslim populist in power, they've been meddling in the Middle East for more than a century (*hint* Iran *hint*), and just look at the recent history of what happened to popular leaders in the region. Qaddafi, Morsi, etc...

The EU is particularly concerned with Turkey's relationship with Syria and its important strategic position as a bastion to thwart refugee movement towards Europe. A secular military dictatorship (that belongs to NATO) is a much safer alternative to a muslim populist president who draws his support not from the elites, but from broad national support.

I don't doubt that a lot of the people arrested are part of the moderate opposition in Turkey, but what exactly did you expect Erdogan to do? It's politics, and a good politician covers his bases when he can, while he can. Also calling Erdogan a second Hitler is really stretching it, even with the Kurd issue taken in consideration.

This comment was edited on Jul 19, 2016, 09:04.
Avatar 58327
6.
 
Re: Evening Metaverse
Jul 19, 2016, 08:03
Cutter
 
6.
Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 19, 2016, 08:03
Jul 19, 2016, 08:03
 Cutter
 
jdreyer wrote on Jul 19, 2016, 04:33:
Look, I have no love of Erdogan, but comparing him to Hitler is not useful. Although Turkey has one of the more formidable militaries in the world, they're not going to start steamrolling their neighbors or start programs of ethnic cleansing.

And while he is hated by vast swaths of the Turkish population, even the opposition turned out in support of Erdogan and against the coup.

As for arresting 20,000, that could be as simple as "Group A opposed us, so arrest them all. Same for groups B, D, and E." In a country of 75M, 20K is not very many.

Tell that to the Kurds. I'm no expert on Turkish politics but apparently that support of Ed was because the main players in the coup were an even worse alternative. So backing Ed was choosing the lesser of two evils.

Yeah, and those mass arrests are just dragnetting and people ratting out one another as quick as possible to save their own bacon.

I find it far more comical that clowns like Kerry and Obama are telling Turkey and their own citizens to respect the rule of law while doing nothing to reign in decades of out of control policing that's led to this point. Whenever I see the US gov't preaching to others about the rule of law I roll my eyes because it's a bad punchline.
"I didn't know you had it in you. Sorry, poor choice of words." - David
Avatar 25394
5.
 
Re: Evening Metaverse
Jul 19, 2016, 04:33
5.
Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 19, 2016, 04:33
Jul 19, 2016, 04:33
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 19, 2016, 00:43:
Task wrote on Jul 18, 2016, 23:13:
20,000 arrested. Would have needed pre-planned arrest lists for such nonsense.

“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.” - George Orwell

In German we even have a phrase for that. "Nacht der langen Messer"

To be honest, to me Turkey isn't a democracy and never was. And now the masks are falling and Erdogan shows his true face. That of someone who wants to become Sultan.

And why should you worry? Because this is *EXACTLY* how Nazi Germany came to be. Albeit in case of Turkey this now happens 20 times faster.

Remember, Hitler was also "elected" but it was anything but a democratic vote. In an atmosphere of fear and oppression, of violent mob rule and murders of political enemies, there can be no such thing as democracy.


Look, I have no love of Erdogan, but comparing him to Hitler is not useful. Although Turkey has one of the more formidable militaries in the world, they're not going to start steamrolling their neighbors or start programs of ethnic cleansing.

And while he is hated by vast swaths of the Turkish population, even the opposition turned out in support of Erdogan and against the coup.

As for arresting 20,000, that could be as simple as "Group A opposed us, so arrest them all. Same for groups B, D, and E." In a country of 75M, 20K is not very many.
To prevent CV-19, avoid the Serious Seven: weddings, funerals, faith-based activities, bars, gyms, house gatherings and other small events.
Avatar 22024
4.
 
Re: Evening Metaverse
Jul 19, 2016, 00:43
4.
Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 19, 2016, 00:43
Jul 19, 2016, 00:43
 
Task wrote on Jul 18, 2016, 23:13:
20,000 arrested. Would have needed pre-planned arrest lists for such nonsense.

“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.” - George Orwell

In German we even have a phrase for that. "Nacht der langen Messer"

To be honest, to me Turkey isn't a democracy and never was. And now the masks are falling and Erdogan shows his true face. That of someone who wants to become Sultan.

And why should you worry? Because this is *EXACTLY* how Nazi Germany came to be. Albeit in case of Turkey this now happens 20 times faster.

Remember, Hitler was also "elected" but it was anything but a democratic vote. In an atmosphere of fear and oppression, of violent mob rule and murders of political enemies, there can be no such thing as democracy.

Avatar 54727
3.
 
Re: Evening Metaverse
Jul 18, 2016, 23:13
3.
Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 18, 2016, 23:13
Jul 18, 2016, 23:13
 
20,000 arrested. Would have needed pre-planned arrest lists for such nonsense.

“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.” - George Orwell
Avatar 37119
2.
 
Re: Evening Metaverse
Jul 18, 2016, 20:57
2.
Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 18, 2016, 20:57
Jul 18, 2016, 20:57
 
About Trek... *Picard voice* "We already know there are TEN films... We'll soon know if there are FIVE series."
1.
 
Re: Evening Metaverse
Jul 18, 2016, 18:26
1.
Re: Evening Metaverse Jul 18, 2016, 18:26
Jul 18, 2016, 18:26
 
Bye cable!
Avatar 15604
13 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
Newer [  1  ] Older