Into the Black

Link of the Day: Penn Jillette in a room full of dummies.
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15.
 
Re: Into the Black
Jun 22, 2016, 01:22
15.
Re: Into the Black Jun 22, 2016, 01:22
Jun 22, 2016, 01:22
 
Other than the entire most of the rest of the world being a perfect example of gun control laws working to reduce gun violence...

How could we ever possibly know if we don't even remotely attempt to keep track of them? If we don't attempt to curtail illegal sales in parking lots? If we are legally not allowed to study solutions to gun violence or it's relation to mental health thanks to the NRA?

Changes must be made.

It's insane to worry about how ineffective the changes might be. The current situation is not working at all.

The US is the only modern, "civilized" country in the world with a gun violence problem. Do we have the only crazy people? No.
What we do have is the only country with more guns than people. More guns than sense.

Almost anything else would be better at this point.

This comment was edited on Jun 22, 2016, 01:39.
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14.
 
Re: Into the Black
Jun 22, 2016, 01:11
NKD
14.
Re: Into the Black Jun 22, 2016, 01:11
Jun 22, 2016, 01:11
NKD
 
descender wrote on Jun 22, 2016, 00:44:
The NRA goes to great lengths to make the public believe that "gun control" only means "taking away guns" and it really doesn't.

Yeah, the NRA is full of shit, and measures to reform sales and registration of firearms are a good idea. We should do that. But I personally don't see those as meaningful steps towards reducing gun violence. There are just too many guns floating around out there changing hands in parking lots and private property in ways that law enforcement would have a problem actually dealing with.

Do you think that sales and registration reforms can significantly reduce gun violence in the way that people want? Most of what I've seen proposed is sensible legislation, but it's also a bit toothless. Again, I'm not saying these are bad ideas or shouldn't be done, but that we need to broaden the conversation a bit.

This comment was edited on Jun 22, 2016, 01:17.
Do you have a single fact to back that up?
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13.
 
Re: Into the Black
Jun 22, 2016, 00:44
13.
Re: Into the Black Jun 22, 2016, 00:44
Jun 22, 2016, 00:44
 
Modern gun control advocates can't seem to get past their fixation on "Let's just ban the scary looking ones!" And that's why we can't have real, effective, gun control.

I agree with most of the post, but this part is pretty much bullshit.

Gun control advocates would (should?) actually happily take any one of a number of advances in gun control laws. Those desired changes are certainly not limited to "scary guns". Expanded background checks, terrorist watchlist access, federal registration and electronic databasing of ALL gun-sale records (they are legally required to ONLY keep paper records... WTF?! Thanks NRA!).

None of these have anything to do with what kind of gun shot who.

The NRA goes to great lengths to make the public believe that "gun control" only means "taking away guns" and it really doesn't. Their propaganda fractures the debate by getting pedantic over things like "what constitutes an assault rifle" and "what type of background checks" and other bullshit. This just poisons and clutters the debate with meaningless stuff no one was or should be wasting time arguing over.

If you have to split hairs over whether a gun qualifies as exceedingly deadly or not... it probably does. is this the important part of the debate? Worth holding up the entire rest of the legislation over? of course not, it's merely a distraction.

The only reason there has been no "meaningful gun control" and that is the NRA. It has nothing to do with anything else. The NRA, the rubes they've swindled into their political movement through fear-mongering, and the politicians they've bought.
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12.
 
Re: Into the Black
Jun 22, 2016, 00:18
NKD
12.
Re: Into the Black Jun 22, 2016, 00:18
Jun 22, 2016, 00:18
NKD
 
Bub wrote on Jun 21, 2016, 07:28:
I consider assault guns weapons of mass destruction.

Define an "assault gun." Part of the reason we don't see movement on gun control is that many gun control proponents don't seem to have a familiarity with guns and it's never really clear what guns they are talking about. It's hard to get support when people think you are talking about one thing, but you actually be another. Use proper terminology, not meaningless phrases like assault gun.



The founding fathers were talking about one shot weapons that took ages to reload, not devices that any fool can use to spray death into a crowd like assault guns do.

Repeating rifles with large magazines and good rates of fire were already starting to appear when the 2nd Amendment was written and it stands to reason the people who wrote it were aware of the fact that technology advances and knew that firearms would only continue to get more powerful.

We already prevent 50 cal machine guns from private use, it's time assault weapons were treated that same.

Did you know that the vast majority (>75%) of firearm homicides in the US are by simple pistols? Prior to the Pulse massacre, the worse mass shooting in US history, the VA Tech shooting, was done solely by regular old pistols. These are the most common and cheapest firearms available, and generally have magazines of only 7-12 rounds. They are also the most easily concealed.

The assault weapons that the media talks about are used in a tiny portion of firearm homicides. That's why when you bring up terms like "assault weapon" you lose the attention of the Pro-2nd Amendment crowd.

The only way to reduce firearm homicides in the US by a significant amount is a widespread reduction in the number of firearms, particularly handguns, that are floating around. I'm not sure the best way to go about that, but I do know that you can't accomplish it by banning weapons that are used in only a small portion of shootings.

Modern gun control advocates can't seem to get past their fixation on "Let's just ban the scary looking ones!" And that's why we can't have real, effective, gun control.
Do you have a single fact to back that up?
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11.
 
Re: Into the Black
Jun 21, 2016, 14:34
11.
Re: Into the Black Jun 21, 2016, 14:34
Jun 21, 2016, 14:34
 
RoboNerd wrote on Jun 21, 2016, 13:20:
I'd just like to point out when the founders wrote the 2nd ammend. single shot rifles were all that the military had as well.

There's some disingenuity on the pro-2nd amendment side. They claim a strict interpretation of the amendment means that ordinary citizens are granted the right to bear arms. "Arms" means all guns, cannons, rockets, bombs, and anything else the military has should be available to all.

If that's not your stand, then you don't actually believe the 2nd amendment should be enforced as written, and think that citizens should be restricted in what arms they can have.
10.
 
Re: Into the Black
Jun 21, 2016, 13:20
10.
Re: Into the Black Jun 21, 2016, 13:20
Jun 21, 2016, 13:20
 
Bub wrote on Jun 21, 2016, 07:28:
I consider assault guns weapons of mass destruction.

The founding fathers were talking about one shot weapons that took ages to reload, not devices that any fool can use to spray death into a crowd like assault guns do.

We already prevent 50 cal machine guns from private use, it's time assault weapons were treated that same.

At the risk of getting flamed, and called rude names, I'd just like to point out when the founders wrote the 2nd ammend. single shot rifles were all that the military had as well. Also, a private citizen in the US (depending on their state laws) can still own a 50 cal machine gun - but you are going to need a huge pile of cash, fill out a stack of paperwork, and wait a long time while your background is examined. Then you have to be willing to be open to inspection anytime by the feds. But it is possible. Rifle
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9.
 
Re: Into the Black
Jun 21, 2016, 08:36
9.
Re: Into the Black Jun 21, 2016, 08:36
Jun 21, 2016, 08:36
 
Tom wrote on Jun 20, 2016, 23:02:
Pigeon wrote on Jun 20, 2016, 21:38:
If they're going to claim video games and other media cause violence, can I claim day time talk shows cause stupidity? At least video games don't try to pass fictitious entertainment off as reality.
Yes, you can claim whatever you want to claim, just like them. But the difference is, they got you to watch their stupid claims. You bowed to their will. They achieved exactly what they set out to achieve. You would do well to remember that.

I bowed to their will? That's a bit of a dramatic thing to say. I'm not sure what they gained from me watching a 5 and 1/2 minute ad-less clip. I would suggest there is value in knowing what others think, even if it is ignorant and insipid.
8.
 
Re: Into the Black
Jun 21, 2016, 07:28
Bub
8.
Re: Into the Black Jun 21, 2016, 07:28
Jun 21, 2016, 07:28
Bub
 
I consider assault guns weapons of mass destruction.

The founding fathers were talking about one shot weapons that took ages to reload, not devices that any fool can use to spray death into a crowd like assault guns do.

We already prevent 50 cal machine guns from private use, it's time assault weapons were treated that same.
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7.
 
Re: Into the Black
Jun 21, 2016, 06:27
7.
Re: Into the Black Jun 21, 2016, 06:27
Jun 21, 2016, 06:27
 
I feel like I've just watched an Inside Out parody from Donald Trump's head.


Tom wrote on Jun 20, 2016, 23:02:
They achieved exactly what they set out to achieve.

The idea that these people have some kind of goal beyond liking the sound of their own voices is hilarious.
6.
 
Re: Into the Black
Jun 21, 2016, 01:34
6.
Re: Into the Black Jun 21, 2016, 01:34
Jun 21, 2016, 01:34
 
Dirwulf wrote on Jun 21, 2016, 00:20:
Mark this day in history. Cutter with a reasonable post that I happen to agree with. Too bad he blocked me all those years ago lol.

Every once in a while, Cutter has brilliant moments of clarity. And lately he's had a few.

And while Cutter and I disagree about things from time to time I find it stimulating. There are times I love a good debate and we'll have a pretty strong discussion.
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5.
 
Re: Into the Black
Jun 21, 2016, 00:20
5.
Re: Into the Black Jun 21, 2016, 00:20
Jun 21, 2016, 00:20
 

Mark this day in history. Cutter with a reasonable post that I happen to agree with. Too bad he blocked me all those years ago lol.
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4.
 
Re: Into the Black
Jun 20, 2016, 23:02
Tom
4.
Re: Into the Black Jun 20, 2016, 23:02
Jun 20, 2016, 23:02
Tom
 
Pigeon wrote on Jun 20, 2016, 21:38:
If they're going to claim video games and other media cause violence, can I claim day time talk shows cause stupidity? At least video games don't try to pass fictitious entertainment off as reality.
Yes, you can claim whatever you want to claim, just like them. But the difference is, they got you to watch their stupid claims. You bowed to their will. They achieved exactly what they set out to achieve. You would do well to remember that.
3.
 
Re: Into the Black
Jun 20, 2016, 22:25
3.
Re: Into the Black Jun 20, 2016, 22:25
Jun 20, 2016, 22:25
 
What's the expression as old as language itself? Oh right, you can't fix stupid.

However, anyway you slice it, easy access to guns does make contribute to all those killings. In every other country it's an expensive and time consuming process to acquire a gun and even more onerous if you want to use it at a range - which are almost non-existent here anyway. In my life I've shot a few .22's and .303s, mainly when I was an Air Cadet and at my uncle's farm. I've handled a handgun once, but never shot it. And apart from 2 other times where I've actually seen handguns in public - bad situations - you only ever see on a cop's hip - or someone else like a prison guard or money truck guard. Otherwise guns do not exist here for all intents and purposes and that's a good thing.

This is what we see in the US. Someone gets mad and rather than go fight them, or even take it to a level of a bat or maybe a knife, so many just go straight to gun, and then it's all over but the crying. I've seen videos on Youtube of assholes walking around loaded for bear in open carry places and thinking they're some sort of patriot hero yet the overwhelming response you see in the comments are is they're precisely the sort of jackass that shouldn't be permitted anywhere near a gun. And I agree with that. The more vehement you are that you should be a walking gun store, the less you should probably be able to carry even one to begin with.

This good samaritan fantasy of gun nuts needs to end. Mire often than not they only make the situation worse. I'm not saying no one should have guns, but people should be suitably terrified of using one because of the harsh repercussions of misuse. Which means you better be in a life and death situation before you jerk that pistol and go to work.

"Van Gogh painted alone and in despair and in madness and sold one picture in his entire life. Millions struggled alone, unrecognized, and struggled as heroically as any famous hero. Was it worthless? I knew it wasn't."
2.
 
Re: Into the Black
Jun 20, 2016, 21:38
2.
Re: Into the Black Jun 20, 2016, 21:38
Jun 20, 2016, 21:38
 
Wow that was hard to watch. One moronic claim after another, and what the hell was the lady in blue going on about. Sounded like she was making up a story based on her flawed knowledge of Asperger's and trying to pass it off as something that actually happens.

If they're going to claim video games and other media cause violence, can I claim day time talk shows cause stupidity? At least video games don't try to pass fictitious entertainment off as reality.
1.
 
Re: Into the Black
Jun 20, 2016, 20:54
1.
Re: Into the Black Jun 20, 2016, 20:54
Jun 20, 2016, 20:54
 
I have grown up with guns in my family, I was raised knowing how to use them, and I have probably killed over a million other people in video/computer games.
But my parents TAUGHT ME, right from wrong. The ONLY time I would even aim, let alone fire a weapon(at a person/animal) would be in defense of my personal safety or that of my family members.
These women are ignorant and grasping at Fox News "Reports" and are symptomatic of being uneducated and unwilling to think for themselves.

As someone who has worked at a Gamestop and Toy'R'Us, I have seen parents who do not give a damn about what game their kids are playing, especially when you tell them WHY a game has an adult rating. So if ya had a kid in a room (with Asperger Syndrome) you HAVE TO ASK WHO GAVE THAT KID A CALL OF DUTY GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE.
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