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27.
 
Re: Steam Top 10
Jun 21, 2016, 15:16
27.
Re: Steam Top 10 Jun 21, 2016, 15:16
Jun 21, 2016, 15:16
 
NKD wrote on Jun 20, 2016, 23:20:
You don't remember all the times you were distracted by a flashy sign, or some strange looking vehicle, or whatever else. You didn't cause an accident due to chance, and a lack of willful stupidity, not any personal skill.

I'll mirror what I said to descender. I'm sure I've been distracted, but it's never been in a situation where my full attention was required. As proof, I can offer that in half a million kms driven, I've never been in an accident that was my fault. I would like to point out that that is the EXACT SAME STATISTIC that Google and others use to demonstrate how safe their cars are. (and before you counter that they have a lot more miles, sure, but the large majority of those are miles driving not during rush hour, and in the middle of like the California desert. )

Traffic flow has momentum. A bunch of cars going down a freeway in zero-to-light traffic for example requires equipment malfunction, extremely profound lapse in attention, or willful recklessness for an accident to occur. There's no pedestrians, no cross traffic, no signals, and sometimes miles between having to start looking at signage. Everyone is basically on low-attention autopilot. It's very hard to stay attentive when you're not required to make any decisions. Ask any long haul trucker type about how much time they spent white-knuckled and attentive.

None of this disproves my point. My brain being on low-usage autopilot is still safe enough to not cause accidents. I still have enough willpower to NOT dig out my freaking phone at a time like this, unlike a huge percentage of all the idiots we see driving around us.

In city driving, there's a lot more shit going on, and a lot more that can go wrong. But there's also a lot more to distract. And you do get distracted. Everyone does. Literally no one is immune to being distracted.

And in city driving, I don't drive on low-usage autopilot brain mode. I drive in "pay attention mode."

[ You can snap yourself back to attention over and over but those lapses are still there and it takes very little for an accident to occur.

How long do you drive in the city? Like ten hours in a row or something? Is it that hard to just, you know, pay attention for 30-45 minutes?

Once more data is available, it will become clear that human drivers are vastly inferior to self-driven cars both in terms of performance and of safety. You can paint yourself as some kind of godly outlier, but you know it isn't true.

I don't paint myself as a godly outlier, because I don't HAVE to be. I have proven through 26 years of driving that I am a safe road user. Let self-driving cars be on the road for 26 years without killing someone, and I'll re-evaluate. Btw, again, right now self-driving cars are useless in anything but "nice, clear weather." so let's not start hailing them as these fantastic saviors of all traffic-related accidents just yet. The NHTSC (however their acronym goes) has yet to certify a single car as a class 4 autonomous vehicle, which is what we would need to get before they would actually be allowed on the road for normal use.

Your reaction is an understandable one, but it's basically the standard issue rejection of unfamiliar technology thing that's been going on since some caveman started a fire and another caveman shit his loincloth and ran away grunting the equivalent of "FOUL MAGIC!! YOUVE DOOMED US ALL!" Every time machines have come along to replace humans, theres a bunch of people who insist the machines can't possibly be more reliable than them. And they are almost always wrong.

Hilarity aside, I know quite a bit about self-driving technology, and it is precisely because I know about the technology that I refuse to put my life in the hands of one. If you feel perfectly confident about putting your life in the hands of a device made by GM's lowest bidders, more power to you. (I just hope you don't wind up another number in another series of massive lawsuits fifteen years down the road because GM/Takata found a flaw in their driving software and decided it was cheaper to just ignore it and pay the lawsuits.)

I'll just keep driving along, being safe. And don't get me wrong, I would actually love to use a self-driving car and gain an hour of my life back where I don't have to sit in traffic every morning and every afternoon. I just don't trust engineers to be able to make a car that can cope with the insanity of modern traffic.

Maybe some day they will, and I will change my tune. But right now, despite what Elon Musk promises, it's not there. It's not even anywhere near close.

(still, again, let's cram every idiot who causes an accident through distracted driving into one today, because the cars are at least already safer than those assholes.)

This comment was edited on Jun 21, 2016, 15:23.
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26.
 
Re: Steam Top 10
Jun 21, 2016, 15:04
26.
Re: Steam Top 10 Jun 21, 2016, 15:04
Jun 21, 2016, 15:04
 
descender wrote on Jun 20, 2016, 18:56:
The only bone I will pick is "in your 26 years of driving"... while you may not have caused an accident you can be damn sure there were times that you were inattentive, distracted or otherwise could have caused an accident if the situation was different. Confirmation bias in it's truest form. I know you think you haven't, but that is exactly the point. Fractions of a second here or there are all I'm talking about. You think you're paying attention, but you're singing a song or thinking about some shit at work.

Fair enough, but now you're really arguing semantics. I have never been distracted to the point where it interfered with me safely being able to operate a car. I don't think about "shit at work" when I'm going 70mph in heavy traffic and overtaking some guy who I noticed swerving around in his lane five seconds earlier.

When traffic is quiet and there's nobody really near me, I'm sure my mind has wandered. Even so, other than my mind wandering, the only thing I'm doing is driving my car. I don't pull out my phone to see what's new on twitter.


The AI is never doing anything except spending 100% of it's time driving the car.

The AI (and let's be honest, it's not a freaking AI.) also never has more skill to react to something than what was coded into it. So if it comes into a situation that has not been coded for, it's screwed. Where this is concerned, at least Tesla has a valid claim for their self-driving vehicles, because every Tesla sold is gathering reams of data on where and how they drive for the main company to use.

Furthermore, the self-driving software spends 100% of its time driving the car, until it borks. And since it's a computer, it WILL bork. Hopefully for the people in the car, it won't bork right in a potentially life threatening situation. To give a nice example, about two weeks ago, suddenly owners of certain Lexus vehicles got a nice little blinking purple screen on their touch screen displays. Nav didn't work anymore, in most cases the airconditioning didn't work anymore, and they had to all take them into the dealer for a hard reset to get their units functional again. Cause? A bad OTA update.

Let's hope that never happens while you're in traffic going 75 mph (or even the vaunted 100mph you're talking about.)

The goal of autonomous cars is not so people can sleep on the way to work, it's to automate every car on the road so that we can have travel speeds exceeding 100MPH and eliminate ALL traffic.

That will never happen in my lifetime. Self driving cars will drive at literally the speed limit (so 65-70) and no faster, and no government turdwallet is going to be the first to go "Hey, we can safely increase the speed to 100mph." Maybe 50 years from now they'll go there.

You, as cautious as you may be, will never be able to keep up with an automated system and would be a liability to every other automated car around you.

Not in my lifetime. (in fairness, I have always said that when I get too old to drive anything other than 100% safe, I want people to take my keys away from me. So at that point, I likely would get a self-driving car and just hope I don't become one of the BSOD deaths.)

The in-between period where both drivers and driverless cars co-exist will be a nightmare, because the automated cars literally have to be programmed to anticipate every stupid thing a human driver could do before people will deem them "safe enough".

Well, that period is going to be at least fifty years, if not more. It'll take two generational shifts, most likely, before there will be an entire population that considers self-driving cars normal, and will use them at will. My generation, for sure, will have a lot of leftovers who refuse to buy into it. (and again, I think the technology is fine and SHOULD be forced onto people who cause accidents because they weren't paying attention, and I think it could be fantastic for the elderly who otherwise can't drive. But I also know how god awfully terribly computers screw things up, and I'm not going to be the test case for some Google Car sending me careening into a semi head-on because some frikking sensor got dirty.)

If they (somehow, magically) cut the entire fleet over in one shot to automated, nearly every traffic incident would be eliminated because all cars would be in constant communication and any developing incident with any individual vehicle could be accommodated nearly instantly. Car 00003346530016 blows a tire and the AI moves every car behind it out of that lane within a second of it happening.

Multi-car pile-ups become a thing of the past.

In a utopia, sure. In reality, that mass switchover never happens, because literally the entire GDP of the entire world couldn't pay for it to happen, nor could the production capacity of the entire planet even come close to filling 1% of the amount of cars that are required.

Furthermore, let's get real, this is corporate America/the world we're talking about. All of these cars are going to come with proprietary bullshit that won't talk to model A, B, or C from manufacturer, D, E and F.

Btw, I'd like to point out that so far, self-driving cars:

A) Don't work well in the rain.
B) Don't work for shit in the snow/fog.
C) Don't really work well on not-well-defined roads.

So yeah, if we switch over tomorrow, I guess we'll have a lot of vacation days due to rain.

This comment was edited on Jun 21, 2016, 15:21.
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25.
 
Re: Steam Top 10
Jun 20, 2016, 23:20
NKD
25.
Re: Steam Top 10 Jun 20, 2016, 23:20
Jun 20, 2016, 23:20
NKD
 
Creston wrote on Jun 20, 2016, 18:30:
For myself, however, I know damn well that when I drive, I focus on driving, nothing else. In 26 years of driving, I've been in two accidents, both blatantly the other guy's fault. I will trust myself over some Google/Tesla engineer's code.


You don't remember all the times you were distracted by a flashy sign, or some strange looking vehicle, or whatever else. You didn't cause an accident due to chance, and a lack of willful stupidity, not any personal skill.

Traffic flow has momentum. A bunch of cars going down a freeway in zero-to-light traffic for example requires equipment malfunction, extremely profound lapse in attention, or willful recklessness for an accident to occur. There's no pedestrians, no cross traffic, no signals, and sometimes miles between having to start looking at signage. Everyone is basically on low-attention autopilot. It's very hard to stay attentive when you're not required to make any decisions. Ask any long haul trucker type about how much time they spent white-knuckled and attentive.

In city driving, there's a lot more shit going on, and a lot more that can go wrong. But there's also a lot more to distract. And you do get distracted. Everyone does. Literally no one is immune to being distracted. You can snap yourself back to attention over and over but those lapses are still there and it takes very little for an accident to occur. Once more data is available, it will become clear that human drivers are vastly inferior to self-driven cars both in terms of performance and of safety. You can paint yourself as some kind of godly outlier, but you know it isn't true.

Your reaction is an understandable one, but it's basically the standard issue rejection of unfamiliar technology thing that's been going on since some caveman started a fire and another caveman shit his loincloth and ran away grunting the equivalent of "FOUL MAGIC!! YOUVE DOOMED US ALL!" Every time machines have come along to replace humans, theres a bunch of people who insist the machines can't possibly be more reliable than them. And they are almost always wrong.
"Sometimes, there are two sides. But more often, one side says it is a car. And one side says it is an umbrella. And only one is right. And the other one doesn’t deserve our attention." -Shepard Smith
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24.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 20, 2016, 21:05
24.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 20, 2016, 21:05
Jun 20, 2016, 21:05
 
jdreyer wrote on Jun 20, 2016, 20:42:
SimplyMonk wrote on Jun 20, 2016, 13:29:
Fully automated cars can't come soon enough. Would pay anything to get an extra hour or sleep while driving too and from work.
What happens when the autopilot BSODs while driving on the highway?
The vehicle enters limp mode, turns on the hazards, sounds the horn and instructs the driver/passengers to remove sharp objects, such as pencils or keys, from your pockets. Next bend over, and put your head between your knees. And when you hear the sound of crunching plastic and shattering glass, kiss your ass goodbye...
A mask is not a political statement. It's an IQ test.
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23.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 20, 2016, 20:42
23.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 20, 2016, 20:42
Jun 20, 2016, 20:42
 
SimplyMonk wrote on Jun 20, 2016, 13:29:
Fully automated cars can't come soon enough. Would pay anything to get an extra hour or sleep while driving too and from work.
What happens when the autopilot BSODs while driving on the highway?
To prevent CV-19, avoid the Serious Seven: weddings, funerals, faith-based activities, bars, gyms, house gatherings and other small events.
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22.
 
Re: Steam Top 10
Jun 20, 2016, 18:56
22.
Re: Steam Top 10 Jun 20, 2016, 18:56
Jun 20, 2016, 18:56
 
The only bone I will pick is "in your 26 years of driving"... while you may not have caused an accident you can be damn sure there were times that you were inattentive, distracted or otherwise could have caused an accident if the situation was different. Confirmation bias in it's truest form. I know you think you haven't, but that is exactly the point. Fractions of a second here or there are all I'm talking about. You think you're paying attention, but you're singing a song or thinking about some shit at work.

The AI is never doing anything except spending 100% of it's time driving the car.

The goal of autonomous cars is not so people can sleep on the way to work, it's to automate every car on the road so that we can have travel speeds exceeding 100MPH and eliminate ALL traffic. You, as cautious as you may be, will never be able to keep up with an automated system and would be a liability to every other automated car around you. The in-between period where both drivers and driverless cars co-exist will be a nightmare, because the automated cars literally have to be programmed to anticipate every stupid thing a human driver could do before people will deem them "safe enough".

If they (somehow, magically) cut the entire fleet over in one shot to automated, nearly every traffic incident would be eliminated because all cars would be in constant communication and any developing incident with any individual vehicle could be accommodated nearly instantly. Car 00003346530016 blows a tire and the AI moves every car behind it out of that lane within a second of it happening.

Multi-car pile-ups become a thing of the past.
Avatar 56185
21.
 
Re: Steam Top 10
Jun 20, 2016, 18:30
21.
Re: Steam Top 10 Jun 20, 2016, 18:30
Jun 20, 2016, 18:30
 
descender wrote on Jun 20, 2016, 17:20:
They will simply never be released to the public until the error rates are low. Those failures don't actually have to be all that low to be several magnitudes better than human drivers.

If only human drivers were held to the same standards. You say you wouldn't trust an AI car... I don't trust people.

At the very least the AI car is never going to be checking it's cellphone while driving a 2 ton missile into the back of a school bus. There are obviously ways for autonomy to fail, but they are dwarfed by all of the reasons a human doesn't pay 100% attention to driving 100% of the time.

Traffic around me is outside of my control. Whether I am in self-driving car or I'm behind the wheel myself, if some bitch/asshole sits there texting WHILE checking on their fucking kid in the backseat and swerves into me, there's nothing I can do about that.

For myself, however, I know damn well that when I drive, I focus on driving, nothing else. In 26 years of driving, I've been in two accidents, both blatantly the other guy's fault. I will trust myself over some Google/Tesla engineer's code.

I can no longer accept other people on the road nearly killing me and my family because of their own inattentiveness, aggressiveness or lack of driving skills.

Which is why THOSE assclowns need to have their licenses revoked, and be stuffed into a self-driving car.

Human driving ability will never change, every day they hand the keys to some new 16 year old schmuck that can now drive 60+MPH because he demonstrated the ability to park a car without hitting a curb.

The driver's license exam in the US is a fucking joke. 99% of the people that get their license here would never pass their test in most countries in Europe. Here in OK it's basically parallel park (why??? There's 500 trillion parking spaces here!!), drive 25 through a residential area, and take 3 turns while making sure to hit your indicator. Never go onto the highway, never face a difficult intersection, nothing. It's actually too benign to call it a joke. It should be a fucking crime.

Private ownership of autonomous cars will probably only last a few decades until they become another public utility, just like water/power/internet/etc. I see corporate fleets being the first widespread adaptation. Instead of giving people company cars or subsidizing public transportation, you'll buy a handful of autonomous cars to pick up and drop off your employees every day.

Possible. I think companies like Uber etc will reap the major, major benefit of it (not incidentally, Uber is a massive backer of self-driving technology,) and several of the main car manufacturers are betting heavily on it. GM outright bought a ride-sharing company so they'd have things like that in place when the self-driving ball really starts rolling.

However, all that said, I think it is at least ten years out, despite Elon Musk's claims that Tesla will be ready in two years.
Avatar 15604
20.
 
Re: Steam Top 10
Jun 20, 2016, 17:20
20.
Re: Steam Top 10 Jun 20, 2016, 17:20
Jun 20, 2016, 17:20
 
They will simply never be released to the public until the error rates are low. Those failures don't actually have to be all that low to be several magnitudes better than human drivers.

If only human drivers were held to the same standards. You say you wouldn't trust an AI car... I don't trust people.

At the very least the AI car is never going to be checking it's cellphone while driving a 2 ton missile into the back of a school bus. There are obviously ways for autonomy to fail, but they are dwarfed by all of the reasons a human doesn't pay 100% attention to driving 100% of the time.

I can accept failure of programming as a risk of using (early model) autonomous cars. These failure rates will be low, documentable, correctable and generally safer in the long run.
I can no longer accept other people on the road nearly killing me and my family because of their own inattentiveness, aggressiveness or lack of driving skills. Human driving ability will never change, every day they hand the keys to some new 16 year old schmuck that can now drive 60+MPH because he demonstrated the ability to park a car without hitting a curb.

Private ownership of autonomous cars will probably only last a few decades until they become another public utility, just like water/power/internet/etc. I see corporate fleets being the first widespread adaptation. Instead of giving people company cars or subsidizing public transportation, you'll buy a handful of autonomous cars to pick up and drop off your employees every day.

This comment was edited on Jun 20, 2016, 17:31.
Avatar 56185
19.
 
Re: Steam Top 10
Jun 20, 2016, 17:04
19.
Re: Steam Top 10 Jun 20, 2016, 17:04
Jun 20, 2016, 17:04
 
descender wrote on Jun 20, 2016, 12:37:
Liability insurance as you know it will have to change completely to accommodate driverless cars.

Since there is no operator error, the car manufacturer of whichever car was "at fault" for the crash would be liable. Most crashes of automated cars are going to be software errors.

Once all cars are automated, car crashes will be so rare that it really isn't going to matter. People suck at driving and they are the only reason that the car insurance industry is what it is today.

That came to mind after posing the question.

Still, I'll never set foot in an Auto-Car. I don't like the idea of not being in control if an AI car fucks up. Plus the future of hacking a car is already here (job security for some I guess).
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18.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 20, 2016, 16:15
18.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 20, 2016, 16:15
Jun 20, 2016, 16:15
 
The Half Elf wrote on Jun 20, 2016, 16:04:
What will be worse is all the drunks who get into their self driving cars and are so damn drunk they can't even tell the car to go home and instead will end up in front of my house taking up all the parking space! Just how bad it would be if ya had a driveway!
We ain't talking about a horse knowing it's way home. I think your parking space will be safe unless self-driving cars have muscle memory.
This does not even need mentioning, but DWI laws will still apply.
A mask is not a political statement. It's an IQ test.
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17.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 20, 2016, 16:11
Cutter
 
17.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 20, 2016, 16:11
Jun 20, 2016, 16:11
 Cutter
 
afka Rossini wrote on Jun 20, 2016, 15:08:
Cutter wrote on Jun 20, 2016, 09:52:
I'd love self-driving cars for absolutely no other reason than it giving the middle-finger to auto-insurance.

Cutter, I never figured you to be that optimistic. The insurance companies will get theirs as long as there are politicians to buy.

Yeah, true enough, who am I kidding. They always get us coming or going, it doesn't matter. Just bend over, grit your teeth and think of England.
"I didn't know you had it in you. Sorry, poor choice of words." - David
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16.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 20, 2016, 16:04
16.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 20, 2016, 16:04
Jun 20, 2016, 16:04
 
Creston wrote on Jun 20, 2016, 13:48:
SimplyMonk wrote on Jun 20, 2016, 13:29:
Fully automated cars can't come soon enough. Would pay anything to get an extra hour or sleep while driving too and from work.

Personally I would never get one (I support computers for a living, and I see the fucking bullshit they do every single day, so there's no way I'm going to trust my life to one of those pieces of shit), but as soon as Class IV autonomous vehicles are here, we need to get one very simple law on the books in the US:

If a person is in an accident (their fault), and the cause of the accident is "distracted driving", their driver's licence is immediately revoked, and the government trades their car for a self-driving one. No more fucking driving privileges for all those FUCKERS who can't put your FUCKING CELLPHONES DOWN.

What will be worse is all the drunk fucktards who get into their self driving cars and are so damn drunk they can't even tell the car to go home and instead will end up in front of my house taking up all the parking space! Just how bad it would be if ya had a driveway!
Avatar 12670
15.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 20, 2016, 15:11
15.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 20, 2016, 15:11
Jun 20, 2016, 15:11
 
No way would they do HL3 on VR only.

I don't even think they'd do a half life "VR Experience" either, just because of the angry lashback they'd get from the gaming community.

They'd have to do a normal HL3 first before any VR half-life stuff.
14.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 20, 2016, 15:08
14.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 20, 2016, 15:08
Jun 20, 2016, 15:08
 
Cutter wrote on Jun 20, 2016, 09:52:
I'd love self-driving cars for absolutely no other reason than it giving the middle-finger to auto-insurance.
Cutter, I never figured you to be that optimistic. The insurance companies will get theirs as long as there are politicians to buy.
"Let them eat Twinkies" - Proposed followup to Melania Trump's "Be Best" campaign.
13.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 20, 2016, 14:16
13.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 20, 2016, 14:16
Jun 20, 2016, 14:16
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jun 20, 2016, 13:51:
SimplyMonk wrote on Jun 20, 2016, 13:29:
Fully automated cars can't come soon enough. Would pay anything to get an extra hour or sleep while driving too and from work.
If the technology is already here to fly an Airbus A380 crammed with 853 lives sans pilot, Driving to walmart while you play candy crush or count sheep ain't nothing.
Crash-less cars are coming, now if they could only hand wax themselves.

Weather, pot holes, real traffic, the friendly skies are more predictable. But not saying impossible, they are basically pixilizing the world, I just don't understand how they think we can be alert if there is an anomaly that should be very rare. We won't be alert, we'll be human.
Avatar 17232
12.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 20, 2016, 13:51
12.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 20, 2016, 13:51
Jun 20, 2016, 13:51
 
SimplyMonk wrote on Jun 20, 2016, 13:29:
Fully automated cars can't come soon enough. Would pay anything to get an extra hour or sleep while driving too and from work.
If the technology is already here to fly an Airbus A380 crammed with 853 lives sans pilot, Driving to walmart while you play candy crush or count sheep ain't nothing.
Crash-less cars are coming, now if they could only hand wax themselves.
A mask is not a political statement. It's an IQ test.
Avatar 58135
11.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 20, 2016, 13:48
11.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 20, 2016, 13:48
Jun 20, 2016, 13:48
 
SimplyMonk wrote on Jun 20, 2016, 13:29:
Fully automated cars can't come soon enough. Would pay anything to get an extra hour or sleep while driving too and from work.

Personally I would never get one (I support computers for a living, and I see the fucking bullshit they do every single day, so there's no way I'm going to trust my life to one of those pieces of shit), but as soon as Class IV autonomous vehicles are here, we need to get one very simple law on the books in the US:

If a person is in an accident (their fault), and the cause of the accident is "distracted driving", their driver's licence is immediately revoked, and the government trades their car for a self-driving one. No more fucking driving privileges for all those FUCKERS who can't put your FUCKING CELLPHONES DOWN.
Avatar 15604
10.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 20, 2016, 13:29
10.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 20, 2016, 13:29
Jun 20, 2016, 13:29
 
Fully automated cars can't come soon enough. Would pay anything to get an extra hour or sleep while driving too and from work.
Avatar 55902
9.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 20, 2016, 13:21
9.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 20, 2016, 13:21
Jun 20, 2016, 13:21
 
Well you still need insurance. I know I was happy my Insurance covered the $5000+ of damage done by a hailstorm. No amount of computer control would have avoided that.

A computerized car will at least require the owner to keep its sensors and input clear of debris. Or force User intervention to drive when it bugs out.

I can understand how it would make a bit of a mess for insurance adjuster's.
Avatar 58207
8.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 20, 2016, 13:17
8.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 20, 2016, 13:17
Jun 20, 2016, 13:17
 
Creston wrote on Jun 20, 2016, 12:56:
A THIRD of Valve is now doing VR??? Half Life 3 VR Confirmed!!!!!

That's gotta be mostly hardware development and suppport though, right? I just don't see Valve going the software route for VR. I hope I'm wrong about that, because The Lab is unbelievable. Just showing that to my friends and family has been worth the cost.

Need to check out new game, Battle Dome. Apparently it's a blast. I guess it's a cover based multiplayer FPS, with mechanics stolen from Splatoon. movement is teleportation based, but you can only move where your team has painted the floor.
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