too good to pass up
https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/1998/11/25/john-romero-artiste

Beamer wrote on Apr 29, 2016, 12:59:
Regardless, they got $131,000 in 3 days. If they ramped like Wasteland 2 or Shadowruns Returns, they'd be around $700-$800k. Barely making it. Late pushes as they were close, though, could probably nearly guarantee it.

Probably they didn't want to get just minimum, one of those projects where minimum wouldn't actually cover making the game and would fail 2 years later when they ran out of money.

CJ_Parker wrote on Apr 29, 2016, 21:32:
No. G.O.D was founded in January 1998. Daikatana, however, was originally scheduled for a xmas release in 1997 (yup... it was three years late when it released in Y2K ). The whole bitch thing was an early advertisement from 1997 so prior to the founding of G.O.D.
You are correct that Eidos was the gig doing Daikatana.

Yeah, that's what I thought. I don't think MW was involved in that.

Jerykk wrote on Apr 30, 2016, 05:55:
That said, it's possible that he could redeem himself. Everybody hated Harvey Smith after DX:IW until he made Dishonored.

Hey, I still hate Harvey Smith, okay?!

(Gotta admit, Dishonored was awesome.)

Jerykk wrote on Apr 30, 2016, 05:55:
You're only as good as your last game and for all intents and purposes, Daikatana was Romero's last game. That's one of the classic examples of games utterly failing to live up to the hype so I'm not sure why anyone would give him money now based on, well, hype.

That said, it's possible that he could redeem himself. Everybody hated Harvey Smith after DX:IW until he made Dishonored.

I know what you are saying, I loved dishonoured and still play it, yes I play deux too.

However Romero only fame is Doom & Quake levels tbh. He is yet to prove anything and as for his last attempt, i cannot see it getting any better. I would definately not give this man any money what so ever.

To all those who will pledge money, fingers crossed, but the odds are against you.

You're only as good as your last game and for all intents and purposes, Daikatana was Romero's last game. That's one of the classic examples of games utterly failing to live up to the hype so I'm not sure why anyone would give him money now based on, well, hype.

That said, it's possible that he could redeem himself. Everybody hated Harvey Smith after DX:IW until he made Dishonored.

CJ_Parker wrote on Apr 29, 2016, 20:27:

Doombringer wrote on Apr 29, 2016, 16:01:
Romero doesn't have any more "pull" or "cred" than, say, Chris Roberts -- and what was the last great thing that Chris did? Privateer or something? How many years ago? And, he was involved pretty heavily with the Wing Commander feature film, which was a stinker compared to the narrative in the games? How many failed ventures did Chris have, including Digital Anvil? Yet Chris raised a TON of Kickstarter dough with just a handful of dreams and wishes. He and Romero were (and probably still are) a lot alike, especially at the point when they both made a Kickstarter for a passion project.

Can't say I agree with that. No matter what you may think of the CR of today (I've come to dislike him as well), his historic achievements are several leagues above Romero.
CR was largely responsible for the entire Wing Commander saga (minus Prophecy), Privateer saga, Strike Commander, Starlancer and also did some design work on Ultima V or Times of Lore.

Doom might have kind of started the whole 3D FPS thing but id's games really don't even come close to living up to classics like the Origin games.
id games were always more like graphical showcases and games you bought just for the visual spectacle and to see what's state of the art but they never came close to the awesomeness of Origin's games which managed to combine great visuals, great gameplay and great narratives. id games had awesome visuals, simple gameplay and no story even worth mentioning.

Heck, I very well remember how id described their MO when coming up with a "story". They said they just create the levels and then basically three days before release put them in some order with a bit of narrative thrown in.

Seriously... John Romero = greenkeeper, Chris Roberts (of the 1990s) = Tiger Woods. No real contest between the two.

Origin could be innovative and they brought some great stuff, no denying that, but think about all the shovelware they pushed out too... Granted lots of it was later on as the EA claws began to dig, but eh.

Even if all id was pump out a bunch of solid engines then that would at least put them up with classic Epic and the Unreal engines for me. Did they exactly make the gaming experience for me? No, but without them the other game and mods that I did love wouldn't exist. For example, take out id and you have no Quake followup which means you have no Half-Life, no Counter-Strike, no Day of Defeat, no Front Line Force etc. And you could play that out the same way with all the great Unreal Engine games. Not to mention they probably all feed off each other in some way.

It is funny to make cracks about Romero and I would never take that away from you (I mean those offices... Dominion...? They deserve it), but I wouldn't write off everyone or everything done in those areas. I guess he could be called the greenkeeper, but he was the greenkeeper everyone wanted.

Beamer wrote on Apr 29, 2016, 17:03:

Doombringer wrote on Apr 29, 2016, 16:01:

And the "bitch" campaign was supposedly helmed by a woman advert/marketing lead, so there's that.

Mike Wilson is a woman now? Or is this more "let's blame woman for interfering with gaming?"

Mike Wilson was responsible. For anyone that knows Mike Wilson, this makes sense. Romero reportedly hated it, but that's reported in hindsight. Regardless, it was Wilson's idea. He most certainly is not a woman.

And how would you know how he feels deep inside? Maybe he is a dominatrix at heart, and simply wants to make you her bitch!

Creston wrote on Apr 29, 2016, 21:10:

Beamer wrote on Apr 29, 2016, 17:03:

Doombringer wrote on Apr 29, 2016, 16:01:

And the "bitch" campaign was supposedly helmed by a woman advert/marketing lead, so there's that.

Mike Wilson is a woman now? Or is this more "let's blame woman for interfering with gaming?"

Mike Wilson was responsible. For anyone that knows Mike Wilson, this makes sense. Romero reportedly hated it, but that's reported in hindsight. Regardless, it was Wilson's idea. He most certainly is not a woman.

Didn't Mike Wilson helm G.O.D. at the time? I didn't think Ion Storm worked for G.O.D.? I'm pretty sure it was Eidos?

No. G.O.D was founded in January 1998. Daikatana, however, was originally scheduled for a xmas release in 1997 (yup... it was three years late when it released in Y2K ). The whole bitch thing was an early advertisement from 1997 so prior to the founding of G.O.D.
You are correct that Eidos was the gig doing Daikatana.

From http://archive.gamespy.com/articles/june03/dumbestmoments/index20.shtml">here:

There we were, casually flipping through our favorite gaming magazine, and suddenly, POW! Like a kick to the jimmies, it was there: a bright red page with giant black letters, screaming "John Romero's About to Make You His Bitch." No screenshots, no game name, just an Eidos logo, an Ion Storm logo, and small text that added: "Suck it Down." It was the first game advertisement for Daikatana, hyping the game for a Christmas '97 release. Gamers everywhere had been challenged by the co-creator of DOOM in a campaign that hyped his name more than the game.

There were two ways it could've gone from there. Had Daikatana come out that holiday season and bowled over gamers as planned, all would've been forgiven. After all, Romero's name had weight; he was the most outspoken member of a team that had created the most incredible PC games of their time. Smack-talk was part of the culture he himself helped to create.


Clearly, this is the hair of a man acquainted with Pro V Vitamins.
But instead, Daikatana came out three years later in 2000 -- two game engines and a staff of about a hundred burned out employees later. By which time the pre-hyping was embarrassing ... and probably led to even harsher than necessary reviews of an admittedly mediocre game.

Beamer wrote on Apr 29, 2016, 17:03:

Doombringer wrote on Apr 29, 2016, 16:01:

And the "bitch" campaign was supposedly helmed by a woman advert/marketing lead, so there's that.

Mike Wilson is a woman now? Or is this more "let's blame woman for interfering with gaming?"

Mike Wilson was responsible. For anyone that knows Mike Wilson, this makes sense. Romero reportedly hated it, but that's reported in hindsight. Regardless, it was Wilson's idea. He most certainly is not a woman.

Didn't Mike Wilson helm G.O.D. at the time? I didn't think Ion Storm worked for G.O.D.? I'm pretty sure it was Eidos?

Doombringer wrote on Apr 29, 2016, 16:01:
Romero doesn't have any more "pull" or "cred" than, say, Chris Roberts -- and what was the last great thing that Chris did? Privateer or something? How many years ago? And, he was involved pretty heavily with the Wing Commander feature film, which was a stinker compared to the narrative in the games? How many failed ventures did Chris have, including Digital Anvil? Yet Chris raised a TON of Kickstarter dough with just a handful of dreams and wishes. He and Romero were (and probably still are) a lot alike, especially at the point when they both made a Kickstarter for a passion project.

Can't say I agree with that. No matter what you may think of the CR of today (I've come to dislike him as well), his historic achievements are several leagues above Romero.
CR was largely responsible for the entire Wing Commander saga (minus Prophecy), Privateer saga, Strike Commander, Starlancer and also did some design work on Ultima V or Times of Lore.

Doom might have kind of started the whole 3D FPS thing but id's games really don't even come close to living up to classics like the Origin games.
id games were always more like graphical showcases and games you bought just for the visual spectacle and to see what's state of the art but they never came close to the awesomeness of Origin's games which managed to combine great visuals, great gameplay and great narratives. id games had awesome visuals, simple gameplay and no story even worth mentioning.

Heck, I very well remember how id described their MO when coming up with a "story". They said they just create the levels and then basically three days before release put them in some order with a bit of narrative thrown in.

Seriously... John Romero = greenkeeper, Chris Roberts (of the 1990s) = Tiger Woods. No real contest between the two.

Wasn't iD basically the company that more or less invented the concept of a game demo?

If they're actually serious about this (and not the very much more likely stoner theory 2 posts below...) then this was probably just a demo KS to test the waters. $130k in a week on name alone isn't horrible. It's enough to know there's some recognition / interest and a valid reason to proceed with actually making a 'real' game demo.

They definitely spent some time and effort building a substantial crowdfunding pitch. But I figure they would probably face some sort of issue if they openly used KS to do free market research prior to continuing actual work (because it's way more fun to just pass the bong and 'conceptualize').

RedEye9 wrote on Apr 29, 2016, 18:05:

BobBob wrote on Apr 29, 2016, 17:35:
Why Ireland?

Tax breaks would be my guess.

Ireland has a corporate tax rate of 12.5% compared to the UK at 20% and USA at 35%... source http://www.idaireland.com/invest-in-ireland/ireland-corporate-tax/
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/ct/

This is what happens when you get 2 old stoners together and they vape some of todays higher tetrahydrocannabinol content reefer while chugging PBR.
The conversation went something like this;

JR: Castles are cool we should do a game in a country with castles.

AC: You're right, I bet we could get awesome tax breaks from one of those castle countries like Ireland and free money from crowd-funding.

JR: DUDE, you rawk. I heard of a space game that kickstarted 500K and is now banking over 110 million. We could get 700k tax free on our names alone. (flicks hair)

This comment was edited on Apr 29, 2016, 19:16.

George Lynch? Really? He was considered good back in the 80's, but today he sounds like a Van Halen clone with lots of slop.

https://youtu.be/v-cdTnZHCis

BobBob wrote on Apr 29, 2016, 17:35:
Why Ireland?

Alcohol; in case of failure.

BobBob wrote on Apr 29, 2016, 17:35:
Why Ireland?

No corporate taxes.

BobBob wrote on Apr 29, 2016, 17:35:
Why Ireland?

Tax breaks would be my guess.

loooooooooooooolllll

Still highly interested to see what they come up with.

Even more so after seeing the latest disappointing Doom gameplay and visuals.