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20. Re: Petition for Legacy World of Warcraft Servers Passes 150k Apr 19, 2016, 15:45 DarkCntry
 
Kxmode wrote on Apr 19, 2016, 13:53:
Brazor wrote on Apr 19, 2016, 12:16:
Kxmode wrote on Apr 18, 2016, 17:06:
They couldn't secure $500 a month in donations because they didn't take donations. Everything was already paid for. The server was non profit. Just stop...

By the way I was a member of the Nostalrius staff so I know what I'm talking about.
http://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37403
Then what was the deal with this?

Read the announcement. It explains everything well enough.

I think the point was that you stated that they didn't take donations and that the servers were paid for, where-as the thread linked to states otherwise...
 
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19. Re: Petition for Legacy World of Warcraft Servers Passes 150k Apr 19, 2016, 13:53 Kxmode
 
Brazor wrote on Apr 19, 2016, 12:16:
Kxmode wrote on Apr 18, 2016, 17:06:
They couldn't secure $500 a month in donations because they didn't take donations. Everything was already paid for. The server was non profit. Just stop...

By the way I was a member of the Nostalrius staff so I know what I'm talking about.
http://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37403
Then what was the deal with this?

Read the announcement. It explains everything well enough.
 
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William Shakespeare's "Star Wars" Act I, Scene 4: CHORUS: And now, dear viewers, shall our play go to \ A Planet stark and drear for our next scene. \ Imagine sand and rocks within thy view. \ Prepare thy souls - we fly to Tatooine!
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18. Re: Petition for Legacy World of Warcraft Servers Passes 150k Apr 19, 2016, 12:16 Brazor
 
Kxmode wrote on Apr 18, 2016, 17:06:
Brazor wrote on Apr 18, 2016, 16:52:
Kxmode wrote on Apr 18, 2016, 15:54:
Brazor wrote on Apr 18, 2016, 15:03:
The people I know at Blizzard have said that they don't expect people to play legacy servers long enough to justify the cost to keep them running. The devs believe 100% that too many people would get bored or upset over the old issues on those versions. Some players will start wanting them to patch the legacy servers without updating the content. Some would want the old talent and honor systems and others would want the new systems with just the old content.

So last that I've heard, the people signing the petition are wasting their time and most likely any questions about it at Blizzcon will get filtered out. Even the panel questions.

Then Blizzard doesn't trust their fans, which is precisely Blizzard's problem to begin with. This is why Brack said "You think you do, but you don't." Nostalrius showed Blizzard the exact opposite. Blizzard just needs to trust their fans. There are way more legacy fans (Vanilla, TBC and WOTLK) than retail players.
No, Nostalrius did not.
They couldn't secure $500 a month in donations to cover the costs of running it. They were already on their way out.
Blizzard doesn't trust the people crying about legacy servers because they are mostly a bunch of lying freeloaders. The devs don't look at them as anything more than pirates trying to use old content as an excuse....and no that's not Activision talking. They have no say in regards to Blizz's business. This is the Blizz dev teams doing everything short of telling them to go fly a kite.

They couldn't secure $500 a month in donations because they didn't take donations. Everything was already paid for. The server was non profit. Just stop...

By the way I was a member of the Nostalrius staff so I know what I'm talking about.
http://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37403
Then what was the deal with this?
 
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17. Re: Petition for Legacy World of Warcraft Servers Passes 150k Apr 18, 2016, 22:44 Kxmode
 
DarkCntry wrote on Apr 18, 2016, 19:25:
They're focusing more on small group experiences, basic party dungeon crawls and less on high-end raiding. There is also a bit more focus on story aspects being forefront than before, but WoW's story has been always something of a flux component and no one pays too much attention to it outside of the general story of whatever it is they are in currently.

That last great story arc has to be Arthas. His story began in Warcraft 3 and ended six years later in Wrath of the Lich King. Now that was a story.
 
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William Shakespeare's "Star Wars" Act I, Scene 4: CHORUS: And now, dear viewers, shall our play go to \ A Planet stark and drear for our next scene. \ Imagine sand and rocks within thy view. \ Prepare thy souls - we fly to Tatooine!
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16. Re: Petition for Legacy World of Warcraft Servers Passes 150k Apr 18, 2016, 19:25 DarkCntry
 
HorrorScope wrote on Apr 18, 2016, 18:20:
DarkCntry wrote on Apr 18, 2016, 16:46:
Yes, WoW's overall gameplay has changed somewhat from vanilla and the focus of the game has shifted from group-oriented content and raids to that of what we have now,

I haven't played in forever, but what is it like now? Curious.

They're focusing more on small group experiences, basic party dungeon crawls and less on high-end raiding. There is also a bit more focus on story aspects being forefront than before, but WoW's story has been always something of a flux component and no one pays too much attention to it outside of the general story of whatever it is they are in currently.
 
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15. Re: Petition for Legacy World of Warcraft Servers Passes 150k Apr 18, 2016, 18:37 The Half Elf
 
But there is ONE MAJOR FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE between the server that was shut down and WoW.

Monthly subscription.
Yeah it might sound trivial, but it is a major point that has NOT been addressed.
Would those from the legacy server pay monthly for Blizzard to do it.
Yes there were donations for server fee's and I believe development costs.

While I hope something comes out of this for them, the next time you write a petition for something don't make it personal with your gaming history. Just the 5 W's.
 
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14. Re: Petition for Legacy World of Warcraft Servers Passes 150k Apr 18, 2016, 18:20 HorrorScope
 
DarkCntry wrote on Apr 18, 2016, 16:46:
Yes, WoW's overall gameplay has changed somewhat from vanilla and the focus of the game has shifted from group-oriented content and raids to that of what we have now,

I haven't played in forever, but what is it like now? Curious.
 
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13. Re: etc. Apr 18, 2016, 18:08 Kxmode
 
171k supporters! 29k needed to reach 200,000 Dance  
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William Shakespeare's "Star Wars" Act I, Scene 4: CHORUS: And now, dear viewers, shall our play go to \ A Planet stark and drear for our next scene. \ Imagine sand and rocks within thy view. \ Prepare thy souls - we fly to Tatooine!
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12. Re: etc. Apr 18, 2016, 17:22 Cutter
 
I'd prefer to play vanilla WoW, no way in hell I'd pay for it however.
 
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You've got to be cruel to be kind...in the right measure.
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11. Re: Petition for Legacy World of Warcraft Servers Passes 150k Apr 18, 2016, 17:06 Kxmode
 
Brazor wrote on Apr 18, 2016, 16:52:
Kxmode wrote on Apr 18, 2016, 15:54:
Brazor wrote on Apr 18, 2016, 15:03:
The people I know at Blizzard have said that they don't expect people to play legacy servers long enough to justify the cost to keep them running. The devs believe 100% that too many people would get bored or upset over the old issues on those versions. Some players will start wanting them to patch the legacy servers without updating the content. Some would want the old talent and honor systems and others would want the new systems with just the old content.

So last that I've heard, the people signing the petition are wasting their time and most likely any questions about it at Blizzcon will get filtered out. Even the panel questions.

Then Blizzard doesn't trust their fans, which is precisely Blizzard's problem to begin with. This is why Brack said "You think you do, but you don't." Nostalrius showed Blizzard the exact opposite. Blizzard just needs to trust their fans. There are way more legacy fans (Vanilla, TBC and WOTLK) than retail players.
No, Nostalrius did not.
They couldn't secure $500 a month in donations to cover the costs of running it. They were already on their way out.
Blizzard doesn't trust the people crying about legacy servers because they are mostly a bunch of lying freeloaders. The devs don't look at them as anything more than pirates trying to use old content as an excuse....and no that's not Activision talking. They have no say in regards to Blizz's business. This is the Blizz dev teams doing everything short of telling them to go fly a kite.

They couldn't secure $500 a month in donations because they didn't take donations. Everything was already paid for. The server was non profit. Just stop...

By the way I was a member of the Nostalrius staff so I know what I'm talking about.
 
Avatar 18786
 
William Shakespeare's "Star Wars" Act I, Scene 4: CHORUS: And now, dear viewers, shall our play go to \ A Planet stark and drear for our next scene. \ Imagine sand and rocks within thy view. \ Prepare thy souls - we fly to Tatooine!
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10. Re: Petition for Legacy World of Warcraft Servers Passes 150k Apr 18, 2016, 16:52 Brazor
 
Kxmode wrote on Apr 18, 2016, 15:54:
Brazor wrote on Apr 18, 2016, 15:03:
The people I know at Blizzard have said that they don't expect people to play legacy servers long enough to justify the cost to keep them running. The devs believe 100% that too many people would get bored or upset over the old issues on those versions. Some players will start wanting them to patch the legacy servers without updating the content. Some would want the old talent and honor systems and others would want the new systems with just the old content.

So last that I've heard, the people signing the petition are wasting their time and most likely any questions about it at Blizzcon will get filtered out. Even the panel questions.

Then Blizzard doesn't trust their fans, which is precisely Blizzard's problem to begin with. This is why Brack said "You think you do, but you don't." Nostalrius showed Blizzard the exact opposite. Blizzard just needs to trust their fans. There are way more legacy fans (Vanilla, TBC and WOTLK) than retail players.
No, Nostalrius did not.
They couldn't secure $500 a month in donations to cover the costs of running it. They were already on their way out.
Blizzard doesn't trust the people crying about legacy servers because they are mostly a bunch of lying freeloaders. The devs don't look at them as anything more than pirates trying to use old content as an excuse....and no that's not Activision talking. They have no say in regards to Blizz's business. This is the Blizz dev teams doing everything short of telling them to go fly a kite.
 
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9. Re: Petition for Legacy World of Warcraft Servers Passes 150k Apr 18, 2016, 16:46 DarkCntry
 
Kxmode wrote on Apr 18, 2016, 15:54:
Then Blizzard doesn't trust their fans, which is precisely Blizzard's problem to begin with. This is why Brack said "You think you do, but you don't." Nostalrius showed Blizzard the exact opposite. Blizzard just needs to trust their fans. There are way more legacy fans (Vanilla, TBC and WOTLK) than retail players.
I hear this time and again with almost every game in this genre, that there are people who claim that there are more fans of the 'original' version as opposed to what is current, all without any proof outside of a closed ecosystem.

Rose-tinted glasses are a big issue when it comes to MMOs, everyone gets all nostalgic over the past that it clouds their judgement of how things really were 'back in the day' to the point that they think it is any different than what takes place now.

Yes, WoW's overall gameplay has changed somewhat from vanilla and the focus of the game has shifted from group-oriented content and raids to that of what we have now, but that doesn't mean that there's enough of a fanbase of the original style to support the blade offshoots required to run legacy servers. There's also the point where you get the freeloaders who only play on the emulated servers because most of them are free...

$15/mth per how many possible thousand of people is not going to be enough to support what these people want, which is a fully-operational product with the same benefits as the currently-ran version, especially not for the size that Blizzard runs their staff. The Blizzard folks I've talked to at various conventions and events have stated that the engine code from vanilla was so massive that it undertook almost an entire team of 30 just to make sure it was 'running' as it should...I seriously doubt Blizzard are going to cannibalize their flagship teams to create legacy teams like this.

Besides, Brazor's point of where do you stop with the legacy requirements when there are people who want strictly vanilla content, to those who want Wrath or BC. This then leads into which things should get patched with the fixes that have taken place over the decade plus since it was originally developed? How about the desired balance changes? At what point do these legacy servers stop being legacy servers and become old code?

There's a whole can of worms that gets opened when things like this get 'traction' from the vocal communities out there...and that can of worms generally has several hundred differing (and sometimes dissenting) opinions of what ingredients should be in them.
 
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8. Re: Doom divides gamers in open beta free trial Apr 18, 2016, 16:09 Razumen
 
MajorD wrote on Apr 18, 2016, 12:05:
I find it curious how the focus of the game has been on the MP. Nothing really has been marketed towards the SP aspect of the game for quite some time, if all that much to begin with. It just makes me wonder if it is another case of pushing an incomplete game out the door to meet the release date.

People that have no interest in the MP of the game (which looks like it will be uninspiring and not a true to the franchise), and are only looking forward to the SP portion of the game, may end up being let down. Just my prediction, but I hope I am wrong.


They showed a lot of SP content before the betas. There's only so much you can show of that before you start spoiling the game, as Ravensoft did with Quake4. Also, the SP and MP portion are being handled by different development teams.

I believe the glut of the negative reviews aren't even relevant, a lot of them barely have any time on them; there's no way someone can give a competent review from so little gametime.
 
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7. Re: Petition for Legacy World of Warcraft Servers Passes 150k Apr 18, 2016, 15:54 Kxmode
 
Brazor wrote on Apr 18, 2016, 15:03:
The people I know at Blizzard have said that they don't expect people to play legacy servers long enough to justify the cost to keep them running. The devs believe 100% that too many people would get bored or upset over the old issues on those versions. Some players will start wanting them to patch the legacy servers without updating the content. Some would want the old talent and honor systems and others would want the new systems with just the old content.

So last that I've heard, the people signing the petition are wasting their time and most likely any questions about it at Blizzcon will get filtered out. Even the panel questions.

Then Blizzard doesn't trust their fans, which is precisely Blizzard's problem to begin with. This is why Brack said "You think you do, but you don't." Nostalrius showed Blizzard the exact opposite. Blizzard just needs to trust their fans. There are way more legacy fans (Vanilla, TBC and WOTLK) than retail players.
 
Avatar 18786
 
William Shakespeare's "Star Wars" Act I, Scene 4: CHORUS: And now, dear viewers, shall our play go to \ A Planet stark and drear for our next scene. \ Imagine sand and rocks within thy view. \ Prepare thy souls - we fly to Tatooine!
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6. Re: Petition for Legacy World of Warcraft Servers Passes 150k Apr 18, 2016, 15:03 Brazor
 
Kxmode wrote on Apr 18, 2016, 11:45:
Wallshadows wrote on Apr 18, 2016, 10:26:
The number of servers required is always ambiguous though. Do you want both PvE and PvP? For each region? What about the expansions? What timezone would they occupy?

There's likely no way Blizzard would foot the bill on support staff either.

You're absolutely right, which is why virtually everyone advocating for legacy servers is telling Blizzard they would either be willing to pay $15 per month for a regular subscription, or $15 plus $5 to access legacy content. In other words WE would pay for the legacy support staff, infrastructure costs, etc.

Wallshadows wrote on Apr 18, 2016, 10:26:
Last but not least, a large part of what made those older titles great were the people I played with and how new and epic it felt which simply cannot be re-captured at this point. Far too many of my friends from back then have quit and raiding no longer feels as exciting as it did.

You'd be surprised how many would. Nostalrius had players from day one working through dungeon and raid content. In fact before the shutdown everyone was looking forward to AQ40 and the Gates of Ahn'Qiraj event. Outside the sphere of Nostalrius plenty of people have stated they would resub to play legacy content in a heartbeat. Personally I would resub and stay with vanilla for quite awhile. I truly loved South Shore and Terran Mill skirmishes, which I learned from Rob Pardo in a 2013 BlizzCon video was the first battleground designed specifically for open world epic PVP battles.
The people I know at Blizzard have said that they don't expect people to play legacy servers long enough to justify the cost to keep them running. The devs believe 100% that too many people would get bored or upset over the old issues on those versions. Some players will start wanting them to patch the legacy servers without updating the content. Some would want the old talent and honor systems and others would want the new systems with just the old content.
So last that I've heard, the people signing the petition are wasting their time and most likely any questions about it at Blizzcon will get filtered out. Even the panel questions.
 
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5. Re: Doom divides gamers in open beta free trial Apr 18, 2016, 13:50 BitWraith
 
MajorD wrote on Apr 18, 2016, 12:05:
I find it curious how the focus of the game has been on the MP. Nothing really has been marketed towards the SP aspect of the game for quite some time, if all that much to begin with. It just makes me wonder if it is another case of pushing an incomplete game out the door to meet the release date.

People that have no interest in the MP of the game (which looks like it will be uninspiring and not a true to the franchise), and are only looking forward to the SP portion of the game, may end up being let down. Just my prediction, but I hope I am wrong.

MP is where the money is at. They can sell their stupid weapon skins and armor etc.
 
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4. Re: Doom divides gamers in open beta free trial Apr 18, 2016, 12:05 MajorD
 

I find it curious how the focus of the game has been on the MP. Nothing really has been marketed towards the SP aspect of the game for quite some time, if all that much to begin with. It just makes me wonder if it is another case of pushing an incomplete game out the door to meet the release date.

People that have no interest in the MP of the game (which looks like it will be uninspiring and not a true to the franchise), and are only looking forward to the SP portion of the game, may end up being let down. Just my prediction, but I hope I am wrong.


 
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Still counting...
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3. Re: Petition for Legacy World of Warcraft Servers Passes 150k Apr 18, 2016, 11:45 Kxmode
 
Wallshadows wrote on Apr 18, 2016, 10:26:
The number of servers required is always ambiguous though. Do you want both PvE and PvP? For each region? What about the expansions? What timezone would they occupy?

There's likely no way Blizzard would foot the bill on support staff either.

You're absolutely right, which is why virtually everyone advocating for legacy servers is telling Blizzard they would either be willing to pay $15 per month for a regular subscription, or $15 plus $5 to access legacy content. In other words WE would pay for the legacy support staff, infrastructure costs, etc.

Wallshadows wrote on Apr 18, 2016, 10:26:
Last but not least, a large part of what made those older titles great were the people I played with and how new and epic it felt which simply cannot be re-captured at this point. Far too many of my friends from back then have quit and raiding no longer feels as exciting as it did.

You'd be surprised how many would. Nostalrius had players from day one working through dungeon and raid content. In fact before the shutdown everyone was looking forward to AQ40 and the Gates of Ahn'Qiraj event. Outside the sphere of Nostalrius plenty of people have stated they would resub to play legacy content in a heartbeat. Personally I would resub and stay with vanilla for quite awhile. I truly loved South Shore and Terran Mill skirmishes, which I learned from Rob Pardo in a 2013 BlizzCon video was the first battleground designed specifically for open world epic PVP battles.
 
Avatar 18786
 
William Shakespeare's "Star Wars" Act I, Scene 4: CHORUS: And now, dear viewers, shall our play go to \ A Planet stark and drear for our next scene. \ Imagine sand and rocks within thy view. \ Prepare thy souls - we fly to Tatooine!
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2. Re: Dog Star Adventure - BBPCGC VidCast Apr 18, 2016, 10:32 BitWraith
 
If you happen to watch the Dog Star Adventure video above and are interested in old, unknown text adventures from the dawn of gaming - here's an interview with the man who created that game (and several others) Lance Micklus from the movie GET LAMP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7wgzCabVn0

Guys like this are literally the grandfathers of the modern game industry - from before there even was an industry.

It might seem like a weird thing to watch, but I like the idea that we're documenting these games on a popular searchable format. Plus, we had some fun and popped a few jokes at the same time.

This comment was edited on Apr 18, 2016, 12:34.
 
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1. Petition for Legacy World of Warcraft Servers Passes 150k Apr 18, 2016, 10:26 Wallshadows
 
I'd have no issue if they did. It would no doubt attract the private server crowd because they would be playing in an environment which is the authentic vanilla experience without the worry that they'll be shut down at any given time. $15 for peace of mind, fully scripted encounters, no shit lord admins, and a professional network backbone which won't crash several times a day or cause rollbacks is a better deal than many of the alternatives which are left in the wake of Nostalrius which may be next on the chopping block.

The number of servers required is always ambiguous though. Do you want both PvE and PvP? For each region? What about the expansions? What timezone would they occupy?

There's likely no way Blizzard would foot the bill on support staff either. They have enough hatred towards this that I doubt they'd throw even more money towards support so you'd likely be in a 'shit out of luck' scenario if anything were to happen outside of their automated loot retrieval system.

Last but not least, a large part of what made those older titles great were the people I played with and how new and epic it felt which simply cannot be re-captured at this point. Far too many of my friends from back then have quit and raiding no longer feels as exciting as it did.

This comment was edited on Apr 18, 2016, 10:37.
 
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