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28. Re: Saturday Metaverse Apr 11, 2016, 21:44 Sepharo
 
Beamer wrote on Apr 11, 2016, 21:36:
Sepharo wrote on Apr 11, 2016, 20:27:
Beamer wrote on Apr 11, 2016, 19:42:
Sepharo wrote on Apr 11, 2016, 17:24:
Beamer wrote on Apr 11, 2016, 12:53:
That he put "gamers" in quotation marks means he's discussing a certain subset of gamers, and one anyone that's been in nearly any multiplayer game with voice capabilities knows.

No this is the same crap the gaming media did back during the height of the #gg crap. "We didn't mean all gamers just "gamers"." It's just as insulting and wrong.

"mexicans" are rapists
"muslims" are terrorists
"black people" are thieves

Don't call me a racist! Clearly some / a lot of people in those groups do act like that! That's why I put it in quotes.

The only way the quotes work like that is if you're criticizing the claim or people who make those claims, it's not the same if you're also one of the people making the claim.

Choosing a favorite hobby then committing very deeply to it isn't comparable to being born a race or religion.

That said, as mentioned, part of it is that these people believe they're the one true gamers.

Like every sect ever are the true believers.

edit: And yes it's comparable. Equivalent, no.
Besides what's being compared isn't the identification, it's the particular tactic of persecution. Stereotyping.

Yes, but again, it was said by gamers about a bad segment.

I mean, you're acting as if the jackasses on Xbox Live haven't been mocked here, specifically, for over a decade.

Yes as jackasses from Xbox live, not as gamers or "gamers".
 
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27. Re: Saturday Metaverse Apr 11, 2016, 21:36 Beamer
 
Sepharo wrote on Apr 11, 2016, 20:27:
Beamer wrote on Apr 11, 2016, 19:42:
Sepharo wrote on Apr 11, 2016, 17:24:
Beamer wrote on Apr 11, 2016, 12:53:
That he put "gamers" in quotation marks means he's discussing a certain subset of gamers, and one anyone that's been in nearly any multiplayer game with voice capabilities knows.

No this is the same crap the gaming media did back during the height of the #gg crap. "We didn't mean all gamers just "gamers"." It's just as insulting and wrong.

"mexicans" are rapists
"muslims" are terrorists
"black people" are thieves

Don't call me a racist! Clearly some / a lot of people in those groups do act like that! That's why I put it in quotes.

The only way the quotes work like that is if you're criticizing the claim or people who make those claims, it's not the same if you're also one of the people making the claim.

Choosing a favorite hobby then committing very deeply to it isn't comparable to being born a race or religion.

That said, as mentioned, part of it is that these people believe they're the one true gamers.

Like every sect ever are the true believers.

edit: And yes it's comparable. Equivalent, no.
Besides what's being compared isn't the identification, it's the particular tactic of persecution. Stereotyping.

Yes, but again, it was said by gamers about a bad segment.

I mean, you're acting as if the jackasses on Xbox Live haven't been mocked here, specifically, for over a decade.
 



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26. Re: Saturday Metaverse Apr 11, 2016, 20:27 Sepharo
 
Beamer wrote on Apr 11, 2016, 19:42:
Sepharo wrote on Apr 11, 2016, 17:24:
Beamer wrote on Apr 11, 2016, 12:53:
That he put "gamers" in quotation marks means he's discussing a certain subset of gamers, and one anyone that's been in nearly any multiplayer game with voice capabilities knows.

No this is the same crap the gaming media did back during the height of the #gg crap. "We didn't mean all gamers just "gamers"." It's just as insulting and wrong.

"mexicans" are rapists
"muslims" are terrorists
"black people" are thieves

Don't call me a racist! Clearly some / a lot of people in those groups do act like that! That's why I put it in quotes.

The only way the quotes work like that is if you're criticizing the claim or people who make those claims, it's not the same if you're also one of the people making the claim.

Choosing a favorite hobby then committing very deeply to it isn't comparable to being born a race or religion.

That said, as mentioned, part of it is that these people believe they're the one true gamers.

Like every sect ever are the true believers.

edit: And yes it's comparable. Equivalent, no.
Besides what's being compared isn't the identification, it's the particular tactic of persecution. Stereotyping.
 
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25. Re: Saturday Metaverse Apr 11, 2016, 19:42 Beamer
 
Sepharo wrote on Apr 11, 2016, 17:24:
Beamer wrote on Apr 11, 2016, 12:53:
That he put "gamers" in quotation marks means he's discussing a certain subset of gamers, and one anyone that's been in nearly any multiplayer game with voice capabilities knows.

No this is the same crap the gaming media did back during the height of the #gg crap. "We didn't mean all gamers just "gamers"." It's just as insulting and wrong.

"mexicans" are rapists
"muslims" are terrorists
"black people" are thieves

Don't call me a racist! Clearly some / a lot of people in those groups do act like that! That's why I put it in quotes.

The only way the quotes work like that is if you're criticizing the claim or people who make those claims, it's not the same if you're also one of the people making the claim.

Choosing a favorite hobby then committing very deeply to it isn't comparable to being born a race or religion.

That said, as mentioned, part of it is that these people believe they're the one true gamers.
 



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24. Re: Saturday Metaverse Apr 11, 2016, 18:40 Sepharo
 
Quboid wrote on Apr 11, 2016, 18:25:
Sepharo wrote on Apr 11, 2016, 17:24:
Beamer wrote on Apr 11, 2016, 12:53:
That he put "gamers" in quotation marks means he's discussing a certain subset of gamers, and one anyone that's been in nearly any multiplayer game with voice capabilities knows.

No this is the same crap the gaming media did back during the height of the #gg crap. "We didn't mean all gamers just "gamers"." It's just as insulting and wrong.

"mexicans" are rapists
"muslims" are terrorists
"black people" are thieves

Don't call me a racist! Clearly some / a lot of people in those groups do act like that! That's why I put it in quotes.

The only way the quotes work like that is if you're criticizing the claim or people who make those claims, it's not the same if you're also one of the people making the claim.

I think Tachikoma is criticising these people's claim that they are the true gamers, that they speak for all of us. Those who treat gaming like an exclusive club and who harass perceived threats to this club and who will only accept criticism of games from other club members - so only people who like games are allowed to dislike games.

If that's the case, I can see where he's coming from but it is at best a clumsy, unhelpful and inconsiderate description.

I don't get that feeling from his post at all.
But you're right that that was an argument made during the #gg crap but even then I felt like it was a straw man... Gamers are an inclusive group, you like and play games then you're a gamer. Some trolls harassed a woman, and then the media ran with the idea that "gamers are misogynists" that spawned #gamergate since people who weren't involved in the harassment at all were pissed, and it was only later that "gamers" came into play as a recalculation when the media realized they were insulting their own customers. People still wanted to be gamers, but the disconnected media wrote articles about how the term needed to go away, etc.
 
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23. Re: Saturday Metaverse Apr 11, 2016, 18:25 Quboid
 
Sepharo wrote on Apr 11, 2016, 17:24:
Beamer wrote on Apr 11, 2016, 12:53:
That he put "gamers" in quotation marks means he's discussing a certain subset of gamers, and one anyone that's been in nearly any multiplayer game with voice capabilities knows.

No this is the same crap the gaming media did back during the height of the #gg crap. "We didn't mean all gamers just "gamers"." It's just as insulting and wrong.

"mexicans" are rapists
"muslims" are terrorists
"black people" are thieves

Don't call me a racist! Clearly some / a lot of people in those groups do act like that! That's why I put it in quotes.

The only way the quotes work like that is if you're criticizing the claim or people who make those claims, it's not the same if you're also one of the people making the claim.

I think Tachikoma is criticising these people's claim that they are the true gamers, that they speak for all of us. Those who treat gaming like an exclusive club and who harass perceived threats to this club and who will only accept criticism of games from other club members - so only people who like games are allowed to dislike games.

If that's the case, I can see where he's coming from but it is at best a clumsy, unhelpful and inconsiderate description.
 
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22. Re: Saturday Metaverse Apr 11, 2016, 17:24 Sepharo
 
Beamer wrote on Apr 11, 2016, 12:53:
That he put "gamers" in quotation marks means he's discussing a certain subset of gamers, and one anyone that's been in nearly any multiplayer game with voice capabilities knows.

No this is the same crap the gaming media did back during the height of the #gg crap. "We didn't mean all gamers just "gamers"." It's just as insulting and wrong.

"mexicans" are rapists
"muslims" are terrorists
"black people" are thieves

Don't call me a racist! Clearly some / a lot of people in those groups do act like that! That's why I put it in quotes.

The only way the quotes work like that is if you're criticizing the claim or people who make those claims, it's not the same if you're also one of the people making the claim.
 
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21. Re: Steam Summer Sale Begins Apr 11, 2016, 14:39 Beamer
 
Tulwinn wrote on Apr 11, 2016, 13:55:
Beamer wrote on Apr 11, 2016, 12:53:
That he put "gamers" in quotation marks means he's discussing a certain subset of gamers, and one anyone that's been in nearly any multiplayer game with voice capabilities knows.
Exactly, I didnt get the impression he was referring to all gamers. The quote marks make a difference. I "really" like going to work every day.

Part of GamerGate was always a misunderstanding, deliberate or otherwise, of Leigh Alexander's poorly written screed against "gamers."

It wasn't about all people who play games, or consider themselves gamers, but a certain subset of people absolutely obsessive about how they're the only real "gamers" and everyone else is a chump. When you see the people in CoD or LoL that love using racist insults, or other things that form a toxic community, they're also convinced they're the real gamers and everyone else is lesser.

 



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20. Re: Steam Summer Sale Begins Apr 11, 2016, 13:55 Tulwinn
 
Beamer wrote on Apr 11, 2016, 12:53:
That he put "gamers" in quotation marks means he's discussing a certain subset of gamers, and one anyone that's been in nearly any multiplayer game with voice capabilities knows.
Exactly, I didnt get the impression he was referring to all gamers. The quote marks make a difference. I "really" like going to work every day.
 
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19. Re: Saturday Metaverse Apr 11, 2016, 12:53 Beamer
 
Verno wrote on Apr 11, 2016, 11:36:
Tachikoma wrote on Apr 10, 2016, 04:57:
jdreyer wrote on Apr 9, 2016, 14:23:
If you put yourself out on the Internet abuse is expected wrong though it may be.

Also? "Narcissa?" That's just asking for it.

The only reason it`s expected is because "gamers" are a bunch of misogynistic, bigoted assholes. And I don`t mean just the death-threat posse, anybody who stays silent or puts up a snarky comment - like yours in this case - unfortunately qualifies.

And, being named Narcissa is an excuse for abuse? Really? Don` t let me start on nicknames here then buddy...

This is a remarkably bad comment on so many levels. It makes false assumptions based on your own personal views. You try to make people seem like they're part of the "problem" if they don't share your view point, again bad logic. Your logic that anyone who doesn't speak up in support of a view you have is somehow equally as guilty as a vocal internet subset is frankly obnoxious.

Gamers are a subset of society like pretty much any other demographic. I hope you're going to be equally as vocal about people with feminist views who threaten others as we've seen happen both online and even on this site. Someone deleting a twitch account over abuse is regrettable but I feel no need to condemn obvious stupidity nor does it make me part of any problem. I'm not the internet police and frankly neither are you despite your attempts to play the part.

That he put "gamers" in quotation marks means he's discussing a certain subset of gamers, and one anyone that's been in nearly any multiplayer game with voice capabilities knows.
 



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18. Re: Saturday Metaverse Apr 11, 2016, 11:36 Verno
 
Tachikoma wrote on Apr 10, 2016, 04:57:
jdreyer wrote on Apr 9, 2016, 14:23:
If you put yourself out on the Internet abuse is expected wrong though it may be.

Also? "Narcissa?" That's just asking for it.

The only reason it`s expected is because "gamers" are a bunch of misogynistic, bigoted assholes. And I don`t mean just the death-threat posse, anybody who stays silent or puts up a snarky comment - like yours in this case - unfortunately qualifies.

And, being named Narcissa is an excuse for abuse? Really? Don` t let me start on nicknames here then buddy...

This is a remarkably bad comment on so many levels. It makes false assumptions based on your own personal views. You try to make people seem like they're part of the "problem" if they don't share your view point, again bad logic. Your logic that anyone who doesn't speak up in support of a view you have is somehow equally as guilty as a vocal internet subset is frankly obnoxious.

Gamers are a subset of society like pretty much any other demographic. I hope you're going to be equally as vocal about people with feminist views who threaten others as we've seen happen both online and even on this site. Someone deleting a twitch account over abuse is regrettable but I feel no need to condemn obvious stupidity nor does it make me part of any problem. I'm not the internet police and frankly neither are you despite your attempts to play the part.
 
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17. Re: Saturday Metaverse Apr 11, 2016, 07:35 Redmask
 
Quboid wrote on Apr 10, 2016, 19:34:
Complaining that people disagree with you is about 90% of your posts in these topics.

This is factually incorrect and I don't accept your premise that I'm part of any problem any more than you are. I don't obsessively follow everything here and I often go days without checking, sorry you were left without some form of closure on some random subject but move on with your life.

Calling all gamers misogynistic assholes is bullshit that deserved to be called out and I did. Of course my example was absurd, it was equally absurd as the initial assertion, that's the whole fucking point. That's about all I have to say to you so much to your probable anger, I'm going to work and probably won't see this again.
 
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16. Re: Saturday Metaverse Apr 10, 2016, 21:17 Quboid
 
Sepharo wrote on Apr 10, 2016, 19:57:
The dude he replied to said,"The only reason it`s expected is because "gamers" are a bunch of misogynistic, bigoted assholes."

I don't really care what Redmask has said in previous posts, he's right on calling out that crap here and now.

He tried to call that out, but the whole "speaking for others" thing doesn't actually seem relevant and the Saudi Arabia nonsense is silly. Anyway, calling that out is understandable (what does "gamers", including quotes, mean?) but not by Redmask talking about nuance, not when he's part of the problem.
 
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15. Re: Saturday Metaverse Apr 10, 2016, 19:57 Sepharo
 
Quboid wrote on Apr 10, 2016, 19:34:
Redmask wrote on Apr 10, 2016, 17:05:
I defeated your childish shit in a single sentence, you're the one playing defense. My views tend to be a bit more nuanced and I don't try to force others to agree with me by painting them all with the same brush.


Complaining that people disagree with you is about 90% of your posts in these topics.

You never did explain why a man writing some of Feminist Frequency's tweets means their founder is 100% discredited, you just complained that this was questioned - "A defense for everything and for everything a defense, I shouldn't be surprised." was your response, yet "people just don't want to listen" was your complaint a couple of days ago. If you had any appreciation of nuance, you wouldn't have consistently misrepresented others views.

The dude he replied to said,"The only reason it`s expected is because "gamers" are a bunch of misogynistic, bigoted assholes."

I don't really care what Redmask has said in previous posts, he's right on calling out that crap here and now.
 
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14. Re: Saturday Metaverse Apr 10, 2016, 19:34 Quboid
 
Redmask wrote on Apr 10, 2016, 17:05:
I defeated your childish shit in a single sentence, you're the one playing defense. My views tend to be a bit more nuanced and I don't try to force others to agree with me by painting them all with the same brush.


Complaining that people disagree with you is about 90% of your posts in these topics.

You never did explain why a man writing some of Feminist Frequency's tweets means their founder is 100% discredited, you just complained that this was questioned - "A defense for everything and for everything a defense, I shouldn't be surprised." was your response, yet "people just don't want to listen" was your complaint a couple of days ago. If you had any appreciation of nuance, you wouldn't have consistently misrepresented others views.
 
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13. Re: Saturday Metaverse Apr 10, 2016, 17:05 Redmask
 
I defeated your childish shit in a single sentence, you're the one playing defense. My views tend to be a bit more nuanced and I don't try to force others to agree with me by painting them all with the same brush.

 
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12. Re: Saturday Metaverse Apr 10, 2016, 13:34 Tachikoma
 
Redmask wrote on Apr 10, 2016, 07:17:
I'm not taking responsibility for a vocal minority on the internet the same way I don't see you flying out to Saudi Arabia to defend women's rights.

You want to play buddy, bring something better than this broken-toy level comparison to the sandbox, especially when trying to call out "weak arguments".

As with every comment, by default, I never assume to speak for some "majority". Lol, I wish that was the case, bu then I probably wouldn`t bother. As for your weak ass defence, well, you crawled outta woodwork to chide me - must be much more important than opposing this vocal majo - sorry, minority.

Says it all, really.
 
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11. Re: Saturday Metaverse Apr 10, 2016, 07:17 Redmask
 
Tachikoma wrote on Apr 10, 2016, 04:57:
The only reason it`s expected is because "gamers" are a bunch of misogynistic, bigoted assholes.

Maybe you are but don't pretend to speak for me. The king of a weak argument is the assumption that your opinion somehow represents some vague mass of others.

I'm not taking responsibility for a vocal minority on the internet the same way I don't see you flying out to Saudi Arabia to defend women's rights. So shove your "silent assent" bullshit up your arse where it belongs.
 
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10. Re: Saturday Metaverse Apr 10, 2016, 05:08 Sepharo
 
Cutter wrote on Apr 9, 2016, 15:24:
Famed? So if 2 people have heard of you is that what qualifies as "famed" now?

All things outside the Cutterverse are unknown and unworthy.
 
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9. Re: Saturday Metaverse Apr 10, 2016, 04:57 Tachikoma
 
jdreyer wrote on Apr 9, 2016, 14:23:
If you put yourself out on the Internet abuse is expected wrong though it may be.

Also? "Narcissa?" That's just asking for it.

The only reason it`s expected is because "gamers" are a bunch of misogynistic, bigoted assholes. And I don`t mean just the death-threat posse, anybody who stays silent or puts up a snarky comment - like yours in this case - unfortunately qualifies.

And, being named Narcissa is an excuse for abuse? Really? Don` t let me start on nicknames here then buddy...
 
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