NKD wrote on Feb 13, 2016, 17:56:
I don't believe anyone who says they pirate a game, play it, and then buy it if they are satisfied. Yeah, maybe they buy it on a Steam sale 2 years later when they want to re-play it, but they aren't slapping down $50-60 when it really counts in the first critical couple weeks of sales.

Well, lots of players do buy it at release if the pirated copy works well. Case in point is the Call of Duty games, which these days are notorious for being horrible PC ports. Plenty pirate the game (offline play only of course), test it, then if it runs well, they buy it so they can play online.

So many games that have Achievements, Leaderboards, Coop, or Multiplayer still have strong incentives to legally buy it even if you can pirate.

But yeah, a lot of people will pirate and never buy. Those people also would be very unlikely to buy in the first place. But that's the classic debate that has raged for decades.

El Pit wrote on Feb 13, 2016, 15:11:
Brumbek trying his best to justify what he intended to do from the beginning... Obvious.

Brumbek orders a pizza. The pizza is not okay, so he asks for a refund. Problem solved.

Brumbek buys a game from Steam. The game is not okay. so he asks for a refund. Problem solved.

But Brumbek says Nooooo, not good enough. I need to eat at least half of the pizza, ahm, play hours of the game.

I admire your attempt at creativity. And your liberal use of Brumbek.

I just think a lot of gamers aren't mature business-minded people. In business office settings it isn't uncommon to get a new printer/scanner/equipment and use it for a week or even a month before deciding on a final purchase decision.

And yet, I'm accused of being a greedy pizza jerk because I also want assurances the game functions as intended after 5 or 10 hours of play.

I don't believe anyone who says they pirate a game, play it, and then buy it if they are satisfied. Yeah, maybe they buy it on a Steam sale 2 years later when they want to re-play it, but they aren't slapping down $50-60 when it really counts in the first critical couple weeks of sales. It's too tempting to find excuses to not pay for it once you've already had it for free.

The bottom line is that people pirate because it's easy to do, usually doesn't get you caught, and if caught, only gets you a sternly worded letter from your ISP. And most importantly, because people like free shit.

I've always found the PC community's attitude towards piracy funny. If a developer or publisher complains about piracy, everyone freaks out and pretends it's not really a thing and there's no way it could impact sales and please oh god don't abandon the PC platform you assholes.

But then a few days later they are justifying why it's actually okay to pirate games.

Look, I don't give a shit if you pirate games. I've done it myself in the past. But don't try and justify your shit. You either just wanted free shit or didn't want to wait for a sale. There's no situation in which pirating a game is the moral choice. Sure, the consequences both to you and the developer are minimal and you're not exactly eating babies, and MAYBE you even pay for it later. But it's not justifiable.

Developers are putting out a product and asking a price for that product. Your choice is either to buy the product, or not buy it. If you're not comfortable with the price, or are not certain you'll be getting your money's worth, your only legitimate choice is to neither purchase nor play the title.

The developers are not entitled to your money, but neither are you entitled to play their game. Stop pretending otherwise.

Cutter wrote on Feb 13, 2016, 16:07:

El Pit wrote on Feb 13, 2016, 15:11:
Brumbek trying his best to justify what he intended to do from the beginning... Obvious.

Brumbek orders a pizza. The pizza is not okay, so he asks for a refund. Problem solved.

Brumbek buys a game from Steam. The game is not okay. so he asks for a refund. Problem solved.

But Brumbek says Nooooo, not good enough. I need to eat at least half of the pizza, ahm, play hours of the game.

Dear reader, judge for yourself.

There is actually one reason I can accept to pirate the game: if the game is not at all or only in a censored version available to you and cannot be gifted or in any other way activated by you. Which means: the idiots don't want to sell the game to you but to mostly everybody else. Then a pirated copy seems to be the only way you can play the game you would otherwise pay for.

A pizza game is a physical item, a digital game is not. Given the problems with quality, QA, hardware, etc. it's not an unwarranted complaint.

I was gonna say "A game is not a pizza," especially when you factor in the restrictions of Steam/Origin/Uplay etc. making it impossible for you to resell a game after you've bought it. But seriously, can you really own a pizza? Then I said to myself "Mmmmm pizza." And I ate some. Yummy.

Brumbek wrote on Feb 13, 2016, 13:28:
I just don't know who to trust anymore!

Are those dang dirty pirates ruining life and taking away diamond-encrusted swimming pools from executives?!

Or does piracy give players a way to test game releases before buying, which also lets players decide on the quality, which means players will actually buy more of the good games?!

Do I side with the dirty pirates or the evil corporate overlords!?

EDIT: in seriousness, since I couldn't try Just Cause 3 or Tomb Raider, which both had/have performance issues on some hardware, there is no way I would buy them at release. Steam refunds isn't good enough for me since 2 hours is like 1 hour tweaking settings and only 1 hour actually playing.

Do you really spend an hour tweaking settings? I'm obsessed with getting at least 60 FPS while maximizing image quality and I spend about 5 minutes tweaking settings for any given game.

On a side note, I used to follow your philosophy. I'd pirate games to see if I liked them and bought the ones I enjoyed. That said, with the various refund policies and substantial discounts now offered by digital distributors, that approach seems outdated.

El Pit wrote on Feb 13, 2016, 15:11:
Brumbek trying his best to justify what he intended to do from the beginning... Obvious.

Brumbek orders a pizza. The pizza is not okay, so he asks for a refund. Problem solved.

Brumbek buys a game from Steam. The game is not okay. so he asks for a refund. Problem solved.

But Brumbek says Nooooo, not good enough. I need to eat at least half of the pizza, ahm, play hours of the game.

Dear reader, judge for yourself.

There is actually one reason I can accept to pirate the game: if the game is not at all or only in a censored version available to you and cannot be gifted or in any other way activated by you. Which means: the idiots don't want to sell the game to you but to mostly everybody else. Then a pirated copy seems to be the only way you can play the game you would otherwise pay for.

A pizza game is a physical item, a digital game is not. Given the problems with quality, QA, hardware, etc. it's not an unwarranted complaint.

El Pit wrote on Feb 13, 2016, 15:11:
There is actually one reason I can accept to pirate the game: if the game is not at all or only in a censored version available to you and cannot be gifted or in any other way activated by you. Which means: the idiots don't want to sell the game to you but to mostly everybody else. Then a pirated copy seems to be the only way you can play the game you would otherwise pay for.

Under that example, I would call it a 'bootleg' version not a 'pirated' one.

honestly it seemed like someone at 3DM was shooting for some kind of white hat job, with all that talk of "its too hard! its all over!"... theres pretty much no way piracy will ever cease, its more about the challenge and invention and r&D than anything else for the real leets

Brumbek trying his best to justify what he intended to do from the beginning... Obvious.

Brumbek orders a pizza. The pizza is not okay, so he asks for a refund. Problem solved.

Brumbek buys a game from Steam. The game is not okay. so he asks for a refund. Problem solved.

But Brumbek says Nooooo, not good enough. I need to eat at least half of the pizza, ahm, play hours of the game.

Dear reader, judge for yourself.

There is actually one reason I can accept to pirate the game: if the game is not at all or only in a censored version available to you and cannot be gifted or in any other way activated by you. Which means: the idiots don't want to sell the game to you but to mostly everybody else. Then a pirated copy seems to be the only way you can play the game you would otherwise pay for.

El Pit wrote on Feb 13, 2016, 14:23:
Brumbek - there are exactly how many gameplay/let's play videos out there per game? Enough to check the quality of the game? I'd say so. In addition, there are boards like this one and plenty of others (like over at the steam - the boards are FREE) to check out the players' opinions. And the "But... but... maybe it won't run on my machine" reason has gone with the return policies over at Steam and Origin...

Hmm. Many of us don't want to watch others play a game. I don't want the intro and first few chapters spoiled by watching others play. These are games we, individually, are meant to play.

Message boards? Steam forums are a cesspool. It's full of trolling liars, idiots who will spoil the ending...I can't take that recommendation seriously.

Steam refunds are the best option...but Steam refunds isn't good enough for me since 2 hours is like 1 hour tweaking settings and only 1 hour actually playing. There are plenty of games with major issues past the first chapter or two.

I'm the type of guy who wants to know, KNOW, that if I spend $60 on something, that it works exactly as intended. I'm the customer; I don't owe corporations anything.

So for some people (I admit to nothing), pirating a game to play it a good 10 hours before making a purchase decision is the only way they'll buy it. But I respect that you don't have the same wacky convictions that I have!

Brumbek wrote on Feb 13, 2016, 13:28:
I just don't know who to trust anymore!

Are those dang dirty pirates ruining life and taking away diamond-encrusted swimming pools from executives?!

Or does piracy give players a way to test game releases before buying, which also lets players decide on the quality, which means players will actually buy more of the good games?!

Do I side with the dirty pirates or the evil corporate overlords!?

Brumbek - there are exactly how many gameplay/let's play videos out there per game? Enough to check the quality of the game? I'd say so. In addition, there are boards like this one and plenty of others (like over at the steam - the boards are FREE) to check out the players' opinions. And the "But... but... maybe it won't run on my machine" reason has gone with the return policies over at Steam and Origin PLUS again, the videos and boards all over the web. No, pirates are no longer needed, BUT I still prefer GOG for the hassle free (mostly) no DRM games. Games for Windows Live (Rot In Hell!), Rockstar Social Club, and so on IN ADDITION to the already present DRM like Steam, UPlay, Origin, are a real pain in the ass.

I just don't know who to trust anymore!

Are those dang dirty pirates ruining life and taking away diamond-encrusted swimming pools from executives?!

Or does piracy give players a way to test game releases before buying, which also lets players decide on the quality, which means players will actually buy more of the good games?!

Do I side with the dirty pirates or the evil corporate overlords!?

EDIT: in seriousness, since I couldn't try Just Cause 3 or Tomb Raider, which both had/have performance issues on some hardware, there is no way I would buy them at release. Steam refunds isn't good enough for me since 2 hours is like 1 hour tweaking settings and only 1 hour actually playing.

This comment was edited on Feb 13, 2016, 14:24.