A large skill barrier to entry is probably not in their best interests if they want people to purchase the game upfront. Everyone already knows why they do or do not like to play MOBA games and DOTA or LoL basically accommodate most desires for hardcore MOBA... What Blizzard needed to create was an excuse for the people who have already stopped playing the more popular ones to return to theirs... and they nailed it.

A year ago yesterday HotS just started closed beta so... give it a minute. When LoL released, HoN was already immensely popular and LoL was laughed at as casual for not having the deny mechanic. Look how clinging to those hardcore mechanics worked out for HoN... I'd say Blizzard is doing exactly what they need to do to enter a saturated marketplace.

This comment was edited on Jan 15, 2016, 18:22.

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This comment was edited on Sep 1, 2019, 01:20.

I just don't like when tedious micromanagement and referential knowledge is misrepresented as "depth" or "skill". Massive swathes (I was going to put a made up percentage like 95%! there but decided against it lol) of DOTA2/LoL players build the same exact min/maxxed builds, the laning phases in ranked play usually go the same exact way (tediously boring, if they aren't then someone screwed up royally and the entire game is probably over) or are usually determined by a lag spike catching a player out of position rather than actual skill... and I quite enjoy how HotS has eliminated some forms of intra-team griefing/trolling by removing lasthit and spreading team XP.

I just don't buy into the fact that these are "deeper" games because of any of the features HotS is "missing". The only thing I would say makes them "deeper" games is the larger character pools, but that is really just another knowledge barrier (as is the item shop) more so than increasing the amount of skill required to play. OK. If there is one "skilled" thing that HotS lacks it's last hitting/denying (my least favorite parts of Dota since it's inception anyway), but that was really only to get a leg up on gold for the item shop. Now you have team objectives to focus on to provide you with those same advantages.

The physical skill required to play MOBA's was gained decades ago playing starcraft/diablo, the knowledge of how to play them properly is just a matter of time.

I'm... kind of excited for overwatch? I'm having trouble identifying what is actually brings to the FPS table for the money though... mostly it's that every time I look at it I just wonder why I would play it instead of TF2, which is already well balanced and doesn't cost $40+. Until they fix the insane UI spam I'm definitely not touching it.

The matchmaking complaints, while valid... are basically valid across any and all MOBA's. Single players showing up to a team sport are always and forever going to lose to teams with even the slightest bit of organization, the team comps IMO have little to do with it. Even with a perfect comp of 5 solo queue players you are probably still going to lose to a team of 5 players with a shitty team comp. The team builder mode in Lol showed how to solve the team comps problem anyway... they just haven't stolen that idea yet. :p I like how they are separating the solo/duo queue players with this patch, although I would have made it so that 1's and 2's can't get matched against a team of 4 players either.

This comment was edited on Jan 15, 2016, 15:36.

descender wrote on Jan 14, 2016, 16:16:

so it's just a polished really dumbed down version of what's already out there.

Sometimes I feel like we get really dumbed down versions of the better trolls that are out there.

Sometimes i feel the same way.

Other-times i laugh IRL when people get all teary when someone says something negative about their beloved game on the interwebz.

But seriously though, i don't judge. If you like COD, HOTS, HKO, WOW and Candy Crush - that's your prerogative man!

p.s. Are you as pumped for overwatch as i am? That's some revolutionary sh*t right there! Blizzard is on point.

I do enjoy Heroes a good bit when I am playing with my friends. It's atrocious when you queue solo or with a partner, though, and mostly because of matchmaking.

I have a love/hate relationship with the objective based gameplay. It's a great way to shake up the typical competitive MOBA gameplay, but the maps are in DIRE need of a proper balancing/tuning. Or at the very least, matchmaking needs to look at the team compositions and fit them to a map that is appropriate.

And unlike most other MOBAs, by the time you are max level you are still getting matched up with people who don't understand the fundamentals -- no lane soaking for xp, taking 3 into a lane and leaving the other 2 to manage 3 lanes on their own, etc. It's like the go-to game for casual soccer dads, which is okay if that's what you are... but having previous MOBA experience just leaves you with a bad taste in your mouth about the whole thing. It's frustrating just how fucking bad some of the players can be even at max level with a metric ton of experience under their belt.

The matchmaking, though. It's so bad. SO BAD.

Beyond pairing up 5-man teams against 5 solo queue people (who are promptly rolled), matchmaking fucking sucks at pairing champs together properly. It'll put together a team with an Abathur, Nova, and Cho'Gall and then drop them on a map with 3 lanes. No coverage, experience falls behind because you don't have folks in lanes, and there's not a god damned thing you can do about it except wait out the loss.

For those that don't play, experience is earned through player kills and by being near minions when they die (soaking). Champs like Nova are stealth assassins that are best suited to floating between lanes applying pressure and keeping the enemy team honest. Abathur is an augment champ that doesn't have a traditional presence in a lane (typically he stays in base/behind walls). He spawns little siege minions and can attach to a friendly champion/minion to provide a boost and some extra attacks. He's great in a traditional team, but puts extra pressure on the team early on because they'll be 2v1 in a lane. Cho'Gall is a single champ played by two people... so you're immediately down another body/champ when you get a Cho.

So when you get a chogall with an abathur and a nova, you're basically fucked. You'll have one dude in a lane hoping for the best, a nova that doesn't know how to adapt to the lack of lane presence, and a cho'gall that's filling their diaper somewhere because he is hard to play properly.

And it's not just the ones I named -- swap nova with zeratul/any other jungling stealth assassin and the problem is incredibly common. It doesn't help that stealth assassins are some of the most fun classes to play.

There's no ability to surrender, either.

HOTS has SO MUCH potential to be great. Just doesn't deliver, though.

so it's just a polished really dumbed down version of what's already out there.

Sometimes I feel like we get really dumbed down versions of the better trolls that are out there.

Comes on guys, it's a Blizzard game... it's catering to the bizzfanboys and noobs of the genre - so it's just a polished really dumbed down version of what's already out there.

Though one thing that did surprise me was how bad the animations are. I always thought this was one area Blizzard specialized in.

descender wrote on Jan 14, 2016, 12:13:
None of those things you want in the game are fun to do... so no thanks.

You can play other games with those mechanics. why does every single MOBA style game have to follow the same stupid rules? How many replicants of Warcraft3 DOTA do you need to be happy?

There's always a horde of morons unhappy with Valve or Riot for one reason or another who want some company to come along and make a game that is basically just the same game, except with different people in charge, hoping they'll make the decisions they agree with.

PacoTaco wrote on Jan 14, 2016, 11:37:
Its great they are trying to fix things they see are wrong but the core concept of the game is flawed, no farming, no shop, so boring. MOBA's have core tenants and they ignored them all. Map design, theme design for many aspects just fall short or seem misdirected. Time for a leadership change on this product and radical new way of thinking. You wont beat Dota2 or LoL with this pile of pretty shit.

Same thing with Paragon, it will be DOA. Prove you can make a good MOBA then try to change the formula, until then don't fucking bother.

The very things you see as core concept flaws are what draw non-MOBA players to this game. The people who think farming lanes and micro-managing items are boring tasks, and so enjoy playing HotS instead of Dota or LoL. Blizzard changed the formula and AFAIK they have been successful, without trying to directly compete with established juggernauts of the genre. In other words, I doubt they're looking for your advice.

None of those things you want in the game are fun to do... so no thanks.

You can play other games with those mechanics. why does every single MOBA style game have to follow the same stupid rules? How many replicants of Warcraft3 DOTA do you need to be happy?

a

This comment was edited on Sep 1, 2019, 01:20.

Nice change. Thanks Blizzard!

This game sucks so bad

result? 5 minute wait time as "auto select" (random)

fyi, random pick's description literally says: "the fastest way to get queued"