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Fallout 4 Patch Breaks Mod Support

A Steam Community Group Announcement has word that the new version 4.1.2 update for Fallout 4 is now out of beta, and is live in the action/RPG sequel. This apparently breaks mod support for the game, which is not mentioned in the patch notes, so it's not clear if this is intentional. A post on the Nexus Forums outlines a way to work around this for now, though there are also posts noting that some mods will need to be reworked, as they still don't work even if you get them to load. Thanks Duane.

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50. Re: Fallout 4 Patch Breaks Mod Support Dec 13, 2015, 18:45 Ant
 
Games' upgrades always break mods.  
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Ant's Quality Foraged Links (http://aqfl.net) & The Ant Farm (http://antfarm.ma.cx / http://antfarm.home.dhs.org).
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49. Re: Fallout 4 Patch Breaks Mod Support Dec 13, 2015, 10:25 DedEye
 
NetHead wrote on Dec 7, 2015, 18:28:

I realise I may have taking this from one thing to a very different subject, though I don't think the links are far fetched (I can easily imaging people going "tinfoil hat time" while pointing at me here, I'd understand). There is no need for Bethesda to make a mod launcher any more capable than what they have in the past with their "Data Files" menu, anyone interested in applying mods will learn what's needed to apply the mods they want, it also comes at a time while mod monetisation has been on their minds which is a motive.

The moment this thing, this "mod manager", comes out linked to Steam and likely only Steam should be considered a flag waving. The mastermind behind it wouldn't be Bethesda but Valve, waving a cut of money infront of devs so they implement it and a cut infront of modders so they hopefully release their work exclusively on Steam. Going down this dark hypothetical road leads nowhere good for anyone but Valve, the sad thing is how many "gamers" would be chanting "Gaben" while running along it throwing money over the side.

Based on my experience with both of these companies (as someone already stated, Horse Armour!) I'd have to agree.
 
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48. Re: Fallout 4 Patch Breaks Mod Support Dec 9, 2015, 08:58 Dev
 
Creston wrote on Dec 8, 2015, 16:50:
Sigh, I just knew it. No issues with the game whatsoever besides the occasional funky glitch in the game for 120+ hours straight, and the patch gets sneak installed last night, and voila, 2 crashes already so far today.

FUCKING FANTASTIC. Thanks for no longer allowing people to defer patches, Steam. Really appreciate it.

You'd have to do what someone else suggested, which is play steam offline. Which is a pain, and I doubt I'd do it.

Another possible option is to copy the entire game folder elsewhere and run it from another location. That MIGHT work, not sure without trying it.
 
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47. Re: Fallout 4 Patch Breaks Mod Support Dec 8, 2015, 17:08 HorrorScope
 
Creston wrote on Dec 8, 2015, 16:50:
Sigh, I just knew it. No issues with the game whatsoever besides the occasional funky glitch in the game for 120+ hours straight, and the patch gets sneak installed last night, and voila, 2 crashes already so far today.

FUCKING FANTASTIC. Thanks for no longer allowing people to defer patches, Steam. Really appreciate it.


In general this. The whole f'in world is going forced update happy in the name of easier to support. In this case it's a f'in game, who calls for support of game? Is anyone here doing that?
 
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46. Re: Fallout 4 Patch Breaks Mod Support Dec 8, 2015, 16:50 Creston
 
Sigh, I just knew it. No issues with the game whatsoever besides the occasional funky glitch in the game for 120+ hours straight, and the patch gets sneak installed last night, and voila, 2 crashes already so far today.

FUCKING FANTASTIC. Thanks for no longer allowing people to defer patches, Steam. Really appreciate it.

 
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45. Re: Fallout 4 Patch Breaks Mod Support Dec 8, 2015, 14:04 jacobvandy
 
Slashman wrote on Dec 8, 2015, 07:25:
Cutter wrote on Dec 7, 2015, 18:12:

Ooohm yeah. I'm gonna' have to sorta disagree with you there, Bob.

The only reason Bethsoft's games have the longevity they do is because of the PC and those self-same mods. I have 435 hours on Skyrim. Without mods it would have been 40'ish. Just go take a look at Nexus Mods mod numbers. Sky UI alone has been downloaded almost 11 million times. Look at the top 25 mods and each of them have been downloaded anywhere from 1 or 2 million plus to 25 million times! So yeah, it's very much about the mods.

OK fine. I just wonder how many times you have re-downloaded a mod when its version changed. I have probably downloaded Cloaks of Skyrim about 15 times. I've downloaded every version change of the Unofficial Skyrim patch mods for each expansion and main game. Same for SkyUI(which has had 15 revisions).

I've downloaded mods that were required to make mods I wanted to use work...and those multiple times.

So all of a sudden, several million downloads doesn't seem like such a huge number if the average mod user is always updating does it?

So if my modest 33 mods have had an average of 10-15 downloads not counting things like complete reinstalls of the game or system upgrades, 11 million downloads is a LOT less impressive for a single mod...and most mods number in the thousands of downloads.

You're correct, and Nexus happens to track the number of unique downloads along with total downloads. For example, SkyUI has 10.8 million downloads, but only 5.4 million unique. That means, on average, everyone who's downloaded it has done so twice. The highest number I've seen is for the 2K resolution texture mod at 8.3 million uniques. Which is, again, about half of its total download figure.

This comment was edited on Dec 8, 2015, 14:10.
 
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44. Re: Fallout 4 Patch Breaks Mod Support Dec 8, 2015, 07:25 Slashman
 
Cutter wrote on Dec 7, 2015, 18:12:

Ooohm yeah. I'm gonna' have to sorta disagree with you there, Bob.

The only reason Bethsoft's games have the longevity they do is because of the PC and those self-same mods. I have 435 hours on Skyrim. Without mods it would have been 40'ish. Just go take a look at Nexus Mods mod numbers. Sky UI alone has been downloaded almost 11 million times. Look at the top 25 mods and each of them have been downloaded anywhere from 1 or 2 million plus to 25 million times! So yeah, it's very much about the mods.

OK fine. I just wonder how many times you have re-downloaded a mod when its version changed. I have probably downloaded Cloaks of Skyrim about 15 times. I've downloaded every version change of the Unofficial Skyrim patch mods for each expansion and main game. Same for SkyUI(which has had 15 revisions).

I've downloaded mods that were required to make mods I wanted to use work...and those multiple times.

So all of a sudden, several million downloads doesn't seem like such a huge number if the average mod user is always updating does it?

So if my modest 33 mods have had an average of 10-15 downloads not counting things like complete reinstalls of the game or system upgrades, 11 million downloads is a LOT less impressive for a single mod...and most mods number in the thousands of downloads.
 
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43. Re: Fallout 4 Patch Breaks Mod Support Dec 8, 2015, 07:18 Megalodon
 
Blackhawk wrote on Dec 7, 2015, 19:47:
Just to clarify the 'was it intentional' bit, this was not a case of a new process making mods malfunction as has happened with every TES/FO update. This isn't compatibility. This functionality was absolutely intentional. They removed the built in manager from the launcher and added a function to the launcher to remove all entries from the Plugins.txt file, which serves only to tell the engine what mods to load. You can set up mods, but if you then use the launcher it will remove them. The file in question isn't used for anything but mods.

This wasn't with malicious intent to the mod community though, they are getting things ready for their own mod launcher and were removing deprecated functionality. As usual there will be a Creation Kit for the game and they are putting in a more official version of a mod launcher. This has nothing to do with Bethesda wanting to shut out modders, that's an unfounded assertion that assumes intent and ignores the technical aspects here.
 
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42. Re: Fallout 4 Patch Breaks Mod Support Dec 8, 2015, 05:00 Jerykk
 
Kosumo wrote on Dec 8, 2015, 00:49:
What do you make of the game in genral Jerykk?

I know you have been a long time fan of the series.

(I'm loving it)

I think it's definitely better than FO3. Better combat, better writing, better speech checks, better graphics. FNV is still a much better RPG and Fallout game in general, but FO4 is good for what it is: a big open world that's fun to explore.
 
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41. Re: Fallout 4 Patch Breaks Mod Support Dec 8, 2015, 02:53 InBlack
 
NetHead wrote on Dec 7, 2015, 18:28:

Mark my words they haven't given up on trying to get money they don't deserve from mods.

There is truth in these words, and it makes me sad.
 
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40. Re: Fallout 4 Patch Breaks Mod Support Dec 8, 2015, 02:50 InBlack
 
harlock wrote on Dec 7, 2015, 20:16:
from what i understand in the reviews ive read, id be expecting some "NPC overhaul" and "Dialog overhaul" and "Consequences overhaul" type mods popping up... the scene is pretty deep, they will straight re-engineer the whole game

When, or rather I should say if (it's 'Murica after all) Bethesda allows modders to go ahead and do this Ill probably go back to the game. As it is I can't get myself to go back to it, all my free game time is occupied by study sims at the moment and I'm loving every minute of it.
 
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39. Re: Fallout 4 Patch Breaks Mod Support Dec 8, 2015, 01:29 ZeroPike1
 
Dunno, game seemed totally stable and mostly bug free for a Majority of the game. But when I got to end game quest lines, it was starting to Hard-crash and things were becoming weird.

My wife however ran into some nasty Brotherhood bugs that I would not believe if I did not see them myself. Really need to move on from this engine Beth! Enough of this stuff.
 
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38. Re: Fallout 4 Patch Breaks Mod Support Dec 8, 2015, 00:49 Kosumo
 
What do you make of the game in genral Jerykk?

I know you have been a long time fan of the series.

(I'm loving it)
 
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37. Re: Fallout 4 Patch Breaks Mod Support Dec 7, 2015, 23:28 Jerykk
 
Blackhawk wrote on Dec 7, 2015, 19:47:
Just to clarify the 'was it intentional' bit, this was not a case of a new process making mods malfunction as has happened with every TES/FO update. This isn't compatibility. This functionality was absolutely intentional. They removed the built in manager from the launcher and added a function to the launcher to remove all entries from the Plugins.txt file, which serves only to tell the engine what mods to load. You can set up mods, but if you then use the launcher it will remove them. The file in question isn't used for anything but mods.

The only way this was accidental was if it was something they wanted for the beta test that they forgot to disable in the release version.

Short of that, this was Bethesda deciding that they didn't want people modding the game and disabling that function.

Of course the serious modders can still do so. They have learned the engine very, very well over the course of the last few games. The casual user, however, is just going to find their ability to play with mods gone.

I was already experiencing this before the patch. The launcher would reset my plugins.txt file. My solution was to edit it then set it to read-only.
 
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36. Re: Fallout 4 Patch Breaks Mod Support Dec 7, 2015, 22:49 Mashiki Amiketo
 
Drayth wrote on Dec 7, 2015, 15:51:
Any great Skyrim mods eventually had access to the editor or where made after it's release, minus UI mods, or any that don't need the editor to function fine in the first place.

All I was saying was, Until Fallout's editor is out people are basically hacking their mods into the game. Thus, it's not surprising to see mods being *easily* broken by a patch.

Really, the mods are being made with FNVedit, which has an extremely lightweight version of the toolkit built in. The differences between FO3/NV or Skyrim and FO4 are trivial. There's a minor header difference and that's it. So if something has broken mods like this even if you get it to load, it would mean that loading mods as they are, wasn't supported until this patch. But it'll be easy enough to fix in the near future.
 
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35. Re: Fallout 4 Patch Breaks Mod Support Dec 7, 2015, 20:16 harlock
 
from what i understand in the reviews ive read, id be expecting some "NPC overhaul" and "Dialog overhaul" and "Consequences overhaul" type mods popping up... the scene is pretty deep, they will straight re-engineer the whole game  
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34. Re: Fallout 4 Patch Breaks Mod Support Dec 7, 2015, 19:47 JTW
 
Just to clarify the 'was it intentional' bit, this was not a case of a new process making mods malfunction as has happened with every TES/FO update. This isn't compatibility. This functionality was absolutely intentional. They removed the built in manager from the launcher and added a function to the launcher to remove all entries from the Plugins.txt file, which serves only to tell the engine what mods to load. You can set up mods, but if you then use the launcher it will remove them. The file in question isn't used for anything but mods.

The only way this was accidental was if it was something they wanted for the beta test that they forgot to disable in the release version.

Short of that, this was Bethesda deciding that they didn't want people modding the game and disabling that function.

Of course the serious modders can still do so. They have learned the engine very, very well over the course of the last few games. The casual user, however, is just going to find their ability to play with mods gone.
 
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33. Re: Fallout 4 Patch Breaks Mod Support Dec 7, 2015, 19:10 Grokk
 
NetHead wrote on Dec 7, 2015, 18:28:
<snip>
So many people got angry at Bethesda (and rightfully so) with that last mod monetisation thing when Steam/Valve is the one they should be watching.
<snip>


Horse Armor.

 
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32. Re: Fallout 4 Patch Breaks Mod Support Dec 7, 2015, 18:49 harlock
 
NetHead wrote on Dec 7, 2015, 18:28:
I would be surprised if any "mod launcher" they provide with the game doesn't end up being woefully insufficient. Infact it would be incredible, not just going on their past, but also considering the countless hours of work and thought put into all the tools needed to properly mod the games. As in apply and manage mods and not even taking into account "mods" such as script extenders which one could more easily classify as "hacks".

im sure it will suck hard, its corporate bullshit after all

they said they want it to integrate with the Steam Workshop.. they made no mention of Nexus... todd howard was talking about it at some point, like you see something in the steam workshop, you hit "install" then you get a F4 launcher where you can pick and choose which mods to run in the game, etc.

they have kinda already had simple stuff like this in the past to a certain degree, id imagine it wont be much more advanced
 
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31. Re: Fallout 4 Patch Breaks Mod Support Dec 7, 2015, 18:28 NetHead
 
harlock wrote on Dec 7, 2015, 15:31:
beth has said mods will work differently with this version so it may need some extra middleware they havent finished making yet

apparently its going to be "super easy" to install and use mods because it will have its own launcher etc

First I've heard of this launcher / "mod manager", and while posting my thought of them making a worthwhile mod manager got me thinking...

I would be surprised if any "mod launcher" they provide with the game doesn't end up being woefully insufficient. Infact it would be incredible, not just going on their past, but also considering the countless hours of work and thought put into all the tools needed to properly mod the games. As in apply and manage mods and not even taking into account "mods" such as script extenders which one could more easily classify as "hacks".

Also lets not forget about all the extra features thanks to current mod management tools that go worlds beyond simply applying a mod or checking for an update, things like mod profiles via virtual folders, automating little "hacks" with the click of a button, accounting for and working with hacks such as script extenders and not only **SE.silverlock (and in turn getting other tools to work with these virtual folders).

Thanks to all these great tools one can even keep a heavily modded FalloutNV, Skyrim etc while reinstalling Windows without having to reinstall anything game or mod related to get it working as before after Windows is back up (thank freaking heavens lol).

What these fans (though I wouldn't simply call them fans and even enthusiast doesn't cover it) and community have accomplished is very impressive and easily amounts to something which on it's own would have to have a substantial budget assigned to it for any company to release something even considered "good enough".

I wouldn't be surprised if any "mod manager" they release is a glorified version of the "Data Files" dialog box from past games. Unless there's some incentive.

If it does turn out to be something more than just a glorified Data Files manager I suspect it would be accounting more for Steam integration than for the consoles (thought I wouldn't completely rule out any console designs) and limitations that come with it. It would likely be kept simple (a statement like that would even likely be a design priority), catering for adding/removing, enable/disable, manual sorting, tracking updates of mods. Other than that they'll probably be more worried about integrating reviews/rating from Steam than making it work with other mod management tools (which don't exists yet or at least are not in their final form for Fallout 4).

I wouldn't even be surprised if they're more worried about getting a "buy now" feature in their mod manager to work nicely with Steam rather than designing their manager in such a way that it has the potential to work with other tools.

Mark my words they haven't given up on trying to get money they don't deserve from mods. If they make a mod manager that will be the impetus, not some desire to better the modding community. The result of which will likely be a manager that integrates with Steam rather than the Nexus (or any other site regardless of the number of users). It's more likely to have a "buy now" button that a "donate" button (and if they try take a cut of donations that feels somehow even worse).

What they design will be deliberately limited in complexity (thus capability) catering to their perception of an average user, because they want a cut from mod makers work, which means monetising mods, which means getting them accessible/mainstream, front and centre.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are already Bethesda and Valve people working together on it, with a "buy now" button as an important feature between Steam and the developers "mod launcher".

Valve after all loves sucking off a cut everywhere they can, mods are a chance to make a whole new cut sucking division, it's like getting to force themselves in as a middleman skimming off everything that passes through.

I wouldn't be surprised, if Valve is not only working with Bethesda on this, but infact creating more of a framework, think along the lines of an API, for other devs to make a "mod launcher", link it to Steam, and of course have that important "buy now" button which they all skim from.

So many people got angry at Bethesda (and rightfully so) with that last mod monetisation thing when Steam/Valve is the one they should be watching. Valve would love to get all mods linked to Steam, not just because taking a cut is their business but it further solidifies their iron-clad grip on gaming. If mods for a game are only available via Steam that's great news for them, if they can then monetise it and take a cut even more so. I wouldn't be surprised if Valve originally took this idea to Bethesda and made their eyes light up. Maybe they even have future designs on a Steam exclusive modding framework devs can keep in mind when making their games.

Steam finally looks to be getting modicum of competition and it seems they won't be resting on their laurels to maintain that iron grip, except with this they not only strengthen that grip with potentially exclusive user made content, they get to take a cut.

I realise I may have taking this from one thing to a very different subject, though I don't think the links are far fetched (I can easily imaging people going "tinfoil hat time" while pointing at me here, I'd understand). There is no need for Bethesda to make a mod launcher any more capable than what they have in the past with their "Data Files" menu, anyone interested in applying mods will learn what's needed to apply the mods they want, it also comes at a time while mod monetisation has been on their minds which is a motive.

The moment this thing, this "mod manager", comes out linked to Steam and likely only Steam should be considered a flag waving. The mastermind behind it wouldn't be Bethesda but Valve, waving a cut of money infront of devs so they implement it and a cut infront of modders so they hopefully release their work exclusively on Steam. Going down this dark hypothetical road leads nowhere good for anyone but Valve, the sad thing is how many "gamers" would be chanting "Gaben" while running along it throwing money over the side.
 
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