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12.
 
Re: Morning Consolidation
Nov 23, 2015, 20:20
12.
Re: Morning Consolidation Nov 23, 2015, 20:20
Nov 23, 2015, 20:20
 
Xbox games would look terrible on newer TVs, 360 games are bad enough
11.
 
Re: Morning Consolidation
Nov 23, 2015, 19:07
11.
Re: Morning Consolidation Nov 23, 2015, 19:07
Nov 23, 2015, 19:07
 
CPU emulation isn't the biggest problem for emulating most platforms. It is the GPU that is usually the biggest problems. Yes, Xbox and Xbone both use x86 compatible CPUs, but the Xbox used an nVidia GPU and the XBone uses an AMD.

The limited backwards compatibility of Xbox games on 360 was achieved by rewriting some of the shaders. nVidia threatened to sue Microsoft, but didn't because Microsoft didn't try to emulate the nVidia chip.
10.
 
Re: Morning Consolidation
Nov 23, 2015, 14:06
10.
Re: Morning Consolidation Nov 23, 2015, 14:06
Nov 23, 2015, 14:06
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Nov 23, 2015, 12:13:
Since both the Xbox and Xbox One are basically PCs, think about it this way: how many 15 year old games work on a modern system without any sort of tweaking?

That depends on your definition of "working" but it's a lot more than you seem to think if we narrow it down to working = running. The vast majority of 15 year old games (Y2K and after) will run just fine out of the box on a modern PC.

The problems arise when you want to make these games run at higher resolutions on a widescreen monitor or play multiplayer with the original framework no longer being available.

So the tweaking usually only comes in when you want to run these games in a modern environment but if you can live with low resolutions and black bars, i.e. literally just run the game then that's really not an issue most of the time.

Things will look a little different if we go back another five years to the mid 1990s (where many games will require heavy tweaking because they were made for 16-bit DOS, single core CPUs etc.) but games from around Y2K or games released on the original Shitbox usually run surprisingly well even today.
9.
 
Re: Morning Consolidation
Nov 23, 2015, 13:07
9.
Re: Morning Consolidation Nov 23, 2015, 13:07
Nov 23, 2015, 13:07
 
NegaDeath wrote on Nov 23, 2015, 12:16:
beigemore wrote on Nov 23, 2015, 11:51:
Kind of strange considering the original Xbox and the Xbone both use x86 compatible CPUs.

Got to be careful there, while there are similarities to PC's the fact is the console developers code a lot closer to the hardware. It gives better performance but it leaves little room for error. Even minor changes in the hardware or OS between two generations could break compatibility. I remember on the N64 a few games would react badly to the presence of accessories released after the games were developed, and that was on the same platform. It's incredibly easy to break shit like that.

Yep, also apparently the original had a very custom GPU that all their games were coded against. While it had a form of DirectX I believe it was custom compiled into each game. That said, if they have the sourcecode it shouldn't be hard to recompile to the newer systems and release as a downloadable patch.
8.
 
Re: Morning Consolidation
Nov 23, 2015, 12:16
8.
Re: Morning Consolidation Nov 23, 2015, 12:16
Nov 23, 2015, 12:16
 
beigemore wrote on Nov 23, 2015, 11:51:
Kind of strange considering the original Xbox and the Xbone both use x86 compatible CPUs.

Got to be careful there, while there are similarities to PC's the fact is the console developers code a lot closer to the hardware. It gives better performance but it leaves little room for error. Even minor changes in the hardware or OS between two generations could break compatibility. I remember on the N64 a few games would react badly to the presence of accessories released after the games were developed, and that was on the same platform. It's incredibly easy to break shit like that.
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7.
 
Re: Morning Consolidation
Nov 23, 2015, 12:13
7.
Re: Morning Consolidation Nov 23, 2015, 12:13
Nov 23, 2015, 12:13
 
I don't think it's a hardware issue but one of software. The original Xbox ran on a modified NT kernel with some pretty specific DirectX instructions. It was also released 15 years ago. Since both the Xbox and Xbox One are basically PCs, think about it this way: how many 15 year old games work on a modern system without any sort of tweaking? Even GOG has to do a lot of work to resurrect some of our favorite games of the past and sometimes they don't always work perfectly or even well (Interstate '76, for example).

Also, remember that all Xbox Ones recently received the system update that updated them to the Win10 codebase. So they're on DX11 and DX12 now. The original used DirectX 8.1 and was not capable of being updated by design.

Some, if not most, of the features of DirectX 9 are deprecated now and the ones that do work are done via emulation in DX11/12. That's hard enough. Going from a static, ancient 8.1 codebase to the modern codebase is a non-trivial underaking. I give them credit for trying it in the first place.
"No matter where you go, there you are." Buckaroo Banzai

There are two types of computer users: Masochists and Linux users.

If you would like help or further details on a technical discussion we're having, email me at bnhelp (at sign) keepusiel.net . Pl
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6.
 
Re: Morning Consolidation
Nov 23, 2015, 11:51
6.
Re: Morning Consolidation Nov 23, 2015, 11:51
Nov 23, 2015, 11:51
 
Kind of strange considering the original Xbox and the Xbone both use x86 compatible CPUs.
5.
 
Re: Morning Consolidation
Nov 23, 2015, 11:41
5.
Re: Morning Consolidation Nov 23, 2015, 11:41
Nov 23, 2015, 11:41
 
deqer wrote on Nov 23, 2015, 10:44:
Or they could've just made the hardware to support both, instead of using an emulator. At the very least, even something like: http://hyperkin.com/Retron5/

What's so hard about that?

You're kidding, right? Making a chip that has the guts of a 20 year old console is a BIT cheaper/easier/smaller than building one for just one generation back.

Even if they COULD magically fit a 360 board inside of the Xbone, the cost alone would raise the price of the box to impractically expensive. Do you not remember the original PS3s that had PS2 backwards compatibility? They were an extra $200.
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4.
 
Re: Morning Consolidation
Nov 23, 2015, 10:48
4.
Re: Morning Consolidation Nov 23, 2015, 10:48
Nov 23, 2015, 10:48
 
I just want to see if Sony and MS are stupid enough to break compatibility next time. IMO they should just be upgrading compatible HW next go'round. They don't have it, then imo they purposely don't want compatibility. The next gen should be the cheapest/easiest step for them, everything, including O/S, Online etc should be compatible. MS should be pushing for it sooner, rather than later since they shit the bed.
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3.
 
Re: Morning Consolidation
Nov 23, 2015, 10:44
3.
Re: Morning Consolidation Nov 23, 2015, 10:44
Nov 23, 2015, 10:44
 
Or they could've just made the hardware to support both, instead of using an emulator. At the very least, even something like: http://hyperkin.com/Retron5/

What's so hard about that?
2.
 
Re: Morning Consolidation
Nov 23, 2015, 10:25
2.
Re: Morning Consolidation Nov 23, 2015, 10:25
Nov 23, 2015, 10:25
 
deqer wrote on Nov 23, 2015, 10:16:
"Very Challenging, because we don't know how to plan shit, and we're dumb."

I doubt it's challenging to emulate original xbox but xbox 360 is definitely impossible to emulate with todays hardware at any playable levels. The Xenia emulator is STILL not even completed and from what I hear they had to code CPU specific translation paths, meaning they have to basically develop a new emulator for every single cpu base that's out there.

Nevermind me, I was thinking of PS3...

This comment was edited on Nov 23, 2015, 11:20.
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1.
 
Re: Morning Consolidation
Nov 23, 2015, 10:16
1.
Re: Morning Consolidation Nov 23, 2015, 10:16
Nov 23, 2015, 10:16
 
"Very Challenging, because we don't know how to plan shit, and we're dumb."
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