Blizzard Sues Bot Maker

TorrentFreak has legal documents showing that Blizzard Entertainment is suing James "Apoc" Enright and several unnamed others for copyright infringement (thanks PCGamesN). The defendants are allegedly the creators of bots to automate play in World of Warcraft, Diablo III, and Heroes of the Storm, and Blizzard claims they are "entitled to monetary damages, injunctive and other equitable relief, and punitive damages against Enright and those working in concert with him." Their take on those "monetary damages" seems to involve some serious coin, as they say:
As a result of Enright’s conduct, Blizzard has lost millions or tens of millions of dollars in revenue and in consumer goodwill. Meanwhile, Enright and his team have been massively and unjustly enriched at Blizzard’s expense, having received hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of dollars in profits from the sale of the Bots.
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25.
 
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker
Nov 13, 2015, 04:05
25.
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker Nov 13, 2015, 04:05
Nov 13, 2015, 04:05
 
deqer wrote on Nov 12, 2015, 11:00:
If your game wasn't a grind, then there wouldn't be bots to do the grind.

It's your fault for making the game a grind, in order to get people to play(pay) longer.

The problem is there's always a new batch of kiddies and most gamers are morons, lets be honest. The rise of DRM/MMO's/F2P proves the gaming masses, generally, are idiots.
24.
 
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker
Nov 12, 2015, 21:26
24.
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker Nov 12, 2015, 21:26
Nov 12, 2015, 21:26
 
Julio wrote on Nov 12, 2015, 10:08:
Creston wrote on Nov 12, 2015, 09:01:
As a result of Enright’s conduct, Blizzard has lost millions or tens of millions of dollars in revenue and in consumer goodwill

Really? How? People play Diablo 3 for free.

Well for Diablo 3 I'm sure the old auction house made them cash. So they probably lost money from bots there. Maybe they'll even claim that's why they had to shut it down

You don't lose money when you get a cut of the sale....
23.
 
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker
Nov 12, 2015, 13:39
KS
23.
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker Nov 12, 2015, 13:39
Nov 12, 2015, 13:39
KS
 
Creston wrote on Nov 12, 2015, 12:52:
AngelicPenguin wrote on Nov 12, 2015, 12:14:
You don't think there is a monetary interest in keeping their games bot free? I know lots of folks who are frustrated with botting in Diablo, so I wouldn't be surprised if many of them didn't buy the expansion because of it. I don't play WoW or HoTS, but I'd imagine it would be similar.

Now that there's no auction house, how does botting in Diablo affect anyone? (Assuming we're talking about D3.)

Even free games generally have paid cosmetics. Same deal, if you lose customers, you lose out there too.

Eh, I guess I can sort of see that. For them to claim it's ten million bucks worth of damages is ridiculous though. How many F2P users do you need to get even a million bucks worth of cosmetic stuff?

I'm surprised anyone would have an issue with Blizzard suing a bot maker.

They can sue whoever they want, I don't care. I just find the spurious claims that it cost them "millions or tens of millions of dollars in revenue" to be ridiculous.

Well, every time a 14 year old or a 37 year old is seduced by a botmaker, their account is cancelled, which mens loss of the WoW monthly, at a minimum. They may be able to sue the botmaker for attemting to interfere with their license agreement which may count as a contract.

Yes it is partly the player's fault, but you can't offer rewards for queering someone else's contract either. I am not saying they would, or shoud win, but there are legal paths open.

This comment was edited on Nov 12, 2015, 13:48.
22.
 
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker
Nov 12, 2015, 13:19
22.
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker Nov 12, 2015, 13:19
Nov 12, 2015, 13:19
 
Creston wrote on Nov 12, 2015, 12:52:

Now that there's no auction house, how does botting in Diablo affect anyone? (Assuming we're talking about D3.)


The main beef people have is that paragon levels are super important for season laddering, so many people feel like to compete they need to bot. I don't worry about competing on ladder, so to your point, botting doesn't affect me, but for those who do want to it's a pretty big issue.
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21.
 
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker
Nov 12, 2015, 12:52
21.
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker Nov 12, 2015, 12:52
Nov 12, 2015, 12:52
 
AngelicPenguin wrote on Nov 12, 2015, 12:14:
You don't think there is a monetary interest in keeping their games bot free? I know lots of folks who are frustrated with botting in Diablo, so I wouldn't be surprised if many of them didn't buy the expansion because of it. I don't play WoW or HoTS, but I'd imagine it would be similar.

Now that there's no auction house, how does botting in Diablo affect anyone? (Assuming we're talking about D3.)

Even free games generally have paid cosmetics. Same deal, if you lose customers, you lose out there too.

Eh, I guess I can sort of see that. For them to claim it's ten million bucks worth of damages is ridiculous though. How many F2P users do you need to get even a million bucks worth of cosmetic stuff?

I'm surprised anyone would have an issue with Blizzard suing a bot maker.

They can sue whoever they want, I don't care. I just find the spurious claims that it cost them "millions or tens of millions of dollars in revenue" to be ridiculous.
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20.
 
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker
Nov 12, 2015, 12:14
20.
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker Nov 12, 2015, 12:14
Nov 12, 2015, 12:14
 
Creston wrote on Nov 12, 2015, 09:01:
As a result of Enright’s conduct, Blizzard has lost millions or tens of millions of dollars in revenue and in consumer goodwill

Really? How? People with bots pay to play WoW. People play Diablo 3 for free. Heroes of the Storm is completely free. How did you lose money?

And consumer goodwill? It may be irritating to see bots all standing together to gang up on a spawn (hi Elder Scrolls Online!) but it's not THAT big an issue.

Quit whining, Blizzard.

You don't think there is a monetary interest in keeping their games bot free? I know lots of folks who are frustrated with botting in Diablo, so I wouldn't be surprised if many of them didn't buy the expansion because of it. I don't play WoW or HoTS, but I'd imagine it would be similar.

Even free games generally have paid cosmetics. Same deal, if you lose customers, you lose out there too.

I'm surprised anyone would have an issue with Blizzard suing a bot maker.
Avatar 55985
19.
 
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker
Nov 12, 2015, 11:04
19.
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker Nov 12, 2015, 11:04
Nov 12, 2015, 11:04
 
SXO wrote on Nov 12, 2015, 08:54:
When you make games based on timesinks and grinding, this is what happens. I mean, let's think about it for just a second. In a single-player RPG, are you expected to grind for weeks on end to afford an armor in game? When the incentive to repeat dungeons with other people is the shiny tokens that gets you a new weapon or armor rather than the gameplay itself, you have a problem. Design MMO's more like single-player RPGs, remove the timesinks and the grind, and make the games actually fun, then things like this will cease to exist. When you put everyone on a treadmill that only speeds up over time, the natural result is some people are either going to fall behind, or find ways to beat the system. All my most pleasant memories from the MMO's I've played have nothing to do with the games themselves, but the people I played with. All that raiding, all the repetitive tasks that felt more like a chore than anything even remotely fun, all of it amounted to my current distaste for MMO's in general.

A-phucking-men.

The first 20 levels of most MMO's are have a very smooth level curve, then I guess once the "crack" dealer mentality kicks in the level curve goes STEEP and it takes forever to level... just grind-grind-grind. Gets boring, I can see why people would want a bot to level and get resources while you actually do something fun.
18.
 
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker
Nov 12, 2015, 11:00
18.
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker Nov 12, 2015, 11:00
Nov 12, 2015, 11:00
 
If your game wasn't a grind, then there wouldn't be bots to do the grind.

It's your fault for making the game a grind, in order to get people to play(pay) longer.
17.
 
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker
Nov 12, 2015, 10:08
17.
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker Nov 12, 2015, 10:08
Nov 12, 2015, 10:08
 
Creston wrote on Nov 12, 2015, 09:01:
As a result of Enright’s conduct, Blizzard has lost millions or tens of millions of dollars in revenue and in consumer goodwill

Really? How? People play Diablo 3 for free.

Well for Diablo 3 I'm sure the old auction house made them cash. So they probably lost money from bots there. Maybe they'll even claim that's why they had to shut it down
16.
 
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker
Nov 12, 2015, 09:01
16.
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker Nov 12, 2015, 09:01
Nov 12, 2015, 09:01
 
As a result of Enright’s conduct, Blizzard has lost millions or tens of millions of dollars in revenue and in consumer goodwill

Really? How? People with bots pay to play WoW. People play Diablo 3 for free. Heroes of the Storm is completely free. How did you lose money?

And consumer goodwill? It may be irritating to see bots all standing together to gang up on a spawn (hi Elder Scrolls Online!) but it's not THAT big an issue.

Quit whining, Blizzard.
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15.
 
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker
Nov 12, 2015, 08:54
SXO
15.
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker Nov 12, 2015, 08:54
Nov 12, 2015, 08:54
SXO
 
When you make games based on timesinks and grinding, this is what happens. I mean, let's think about it for just a second. In a single-player RPG, are you expected to grind for weeks on end to afford an armor in game? When the incentive to repeat dungeons with other people is the shiny tokens that gets you a new weapon or armor rather than the gameplay itself, you have a problem. Design MMO's more like single-player RPGs, remove the timesinks and the grind, and make the games actually fun, then things like this will cease to exist. When you put everyone on a treadmill that only speeds up over time, the natural result is some people are either going to fall behind, or find ways to beat the system. All my most pleasant memories from the MMO's I've played have nothing to do with the games themselves, but the people I played with. All that raiding, all the repetitive tasks that felt more like a chore than anything even remotely fun, all of it amounted to my current distaste for MMO's in general.
14.
 
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker
Nov 12, 2015, 07:34
14.
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker Nov 12, 2015, 07:34
Nov 12, 2015, 07:34
 
Bub wrote on Nov 12, 2015, 06:42:
Yeech... This younger generation that thinks botting is a good thing.
Until you play something like the MMO Perfect World, that is infested with both proprietary bots and bots provided by the game, you have no idea how it ruins the entire game. Botting usually causes massive inflation, devaluing farmable resources to the point that to make any profit one must run multiple bots 24/7. For players who just want to quest and run raids and dungeons, it means they will have to buy gold just to cover maintenance costs and upgrades.

Blizzard however is chained to the Korporate edict that says as long as a customer pays cash, it is not worth it to ban them for anything.

Before retiring I wrote code for a living, and I can appreciate the "fun" of tweaking a bot to succeed in the game which is a bot itself.
But this does not make up for the fact that bots generally have an overall negative effect on Online games.

Problem is nowdays people can write code that will appear such as a person playing using inputs in game and if they want to do that so that bot will play for them doing some basic stuff in mmo while they at work, there is nothing you can do about it. Maybe if most mmos werent so dumb downed.
"On 2646.215 I myself attacked & destroyed TCS Tiger's Claw in my Jalthi heavy fighter"
Bakhtosh Redclaw Nar Kiranka
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13.
 
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker
Nov 12, 2015, 06:42
Bub
13.
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker Nov 12, 2015, 06:42
Nov 12, 2015, 06:42
Bub
 

Yeech... This younger generation that thinks botting is a good thing.
Until you play something like the MMO Perfect World, that is infested with both proprietary bots and bots provided by the game, you have no idea how it ruins the entire game. Botting usually causes massive inflation, devaluing farmable resources to the point that to make any profit one must run multiple bots 24/7. For players who just want to quest and run raids and dungeons, it means they will have to buy gold just to cover maintenance costs and upgrades.

Blizzard however is chained to the Korporate edict that says as long as a customer pays cash, it is not worth it to ban them for anything.

Before retiring I wrote code for a living, and I can appreciate the "fun" of tweaking a bot to succeed in the game which is a bot itself.
But this does not make up for the fact that bots generally have an overall negative effect on Online games.
==================================================
Bubb Stubbley
... I miss BBS..
"There is a sucker born every minute." - PT Barnum
==================================================
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12.
 
Re: Meh, pointless.
Nov 12, 2015, 06:19
12.
Re: Meh, pointless. Nov 12, 2015, 06:19
Nov 12, 2015, 06:19
 
JohnBirshire wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 21:42:
I played on a World of Warcraft free server that was making over $500,000 a month in "donations". After years of doing it, Blizzard sued them for a massive amount of money.

End result? They closed the server, paid Blizzard nothing, laid low for a couple months, then reopened the server under a different name.

Back to making millions, Blizzard has never bothered to try again.

This stuff isn't an effective deterrent whatsoever.

any idea why they didn't go to court? It isn't as if blizzard have no lawyers onboard and they probably spend more on chasing these guys than actually stopping them. I assume the "free" servers and programmers were in Russia or China etc.
Its not the cough that carries you off but the coffin they carry you off in.
11.
 
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker
Nov 12, 2015, 03:09
11.
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker Nov 12, 2015, 03:09
Nov 12, 2015, 03:09
 
I wish Blizzard the very best of luck! Hope this sets a gruesome example!
10.
 
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker
Nov 11, 2015, 23:52
10.
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker Nov 11, 2015, 23:52
Nov 11, 2015, 23:52
 
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 20:36:
"Ha ha!" - Nelson Muntz

Now, if Blizzard would only get around to actually banning/blocking the bot users... at least for Diablo 3, no clue how (in)effective they've been in their other games.
You can't.
They'll just use tunneling services to mask their location like many of the gold farmers already use. Blizz won't restrict people to playing from certain locations because that would be too much of an inconvenience to legit players.

KilrathiAce wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 23:28:
Blizzard is crying too much.

Let's say in future we get much better ai programming and people can have software play game for them, using normal pc inputs, as long as customer owns license to play the game on the pc thats legal. I guess Blizzard should be looking into making terms that only humans are allowed to manually and physically play their games lol.
They already do. It's been like that from day 1.

Grokk wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 21:46:
I have to admit, I do sort of like that they are going after the source of the problem, rather than just blocking the functionality of the bots, or banning the accounts.

However, banning accounts works mostly in Blizzards favour, since the offender will most likely purchase the product again.

It does seem like the bot makers are getting better though, possibly to the point where Blizzard is now unable to detect the bots and is forced to shut down the operation instead.
I know people working in Blizz support. It's a cat and mouse game. Once they learn to detect the bot or hack they knock out all the accounts using them. Then the authors rewrite the bot/hack and the cycle starts over. There's absolutely no permanent solution to it.
The bulk of the players don't want to cheaters around so Blizz spends millions on staff fighting it to keep the impact as low as possible. If they didn't do this then the game would have never made it to WotLK and would have ended up in the fail bin like many other games that got destroyed by cheaters.
9.
 
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker
Nov 11, 2015, 23:43
Cutter
 
9.
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker Nov 11, 2015, 23:43
Nov 11, 2015, 23:43
 Cutter
 
KilrathiAce wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 23:28:
Blizzard is crying too much.

Let's say in future we get much better ai programming and people can have software play game for them, using normal pc inputs, as long as customer owns license to play the game on the pc thats legal. I guess Blizzard should be looking into making terms that only humans are allowed to manually and physically play their games lol.

Or they could be smart and just make and sell the bots themselves. I'm actually very surprised Nodick hasn't done that yet.
"What I don't like about office Christmas parties is looking for a job the next day." - Phyllis Diller
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8.
 
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker
Nov 11, 2015, 23:28
8.
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker Nov 11, 2015, 23:28
Nov 11, 2015, 23:28
 
Blizzard is crying too much.

Let's say in future we get much better ai programming and people can have software play game for them, using normal pc inputs, as long as customer owns license to play the game on the pc thats legal. I guess Blizzard should be looking into making terms that only humans are allowed to manually and physically play their games lol.
"On 2646.215 I myself attacked & destroyed TCS Tiger's Claw in my Jalthi heavy fighter"
Bakhtosh Redclaw Nar Kiranka
Avatar 7413
7.
 
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker
Nov 11, 2015, 22:09
RaZ0r!
 
7.
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker Nov 11, 2015, 22:09
Nov 11, 2015, 22:09
 RaZ0r!
 
Blizz has been there done that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glider_%28bot%29
I pwnz j00!
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6.
 
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker
Nov 11, 2015, 21:46
6.
Re: Blizzard Sues Bot Maker Nov 11, 2015, 21:46
Nov 11, 2015, 21:46
 
I have to admit, I do sort of like that they are going after the source of the problem, rather than just blocking the functionality of the bots, or banning the accounts.

However, banning accounts works mostly in Blizzards favour, since the offender will most likely purchase the product again.

It does seem like the bot makers are getting better though, possibly to the point where Blizzard is now unable to detect the bots and is forced to shut down the operation instead.
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