jimnms wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 13:37:

nin wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 10:01:

jimnms wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 09:53:
You wouldn't be saying that if some company bought the rights to a game franchise you loved and then shit all over it. This game could have stood on its own as a new IP, but buying the name of a loved RPG franchise and slapping its name on your product is going to draw comparisons to the originals.

Times change, and so does what's popular and what people like. Getting pissed about it isn't going to reverse that.

Enjoy the classics and let other folks enjoy what they like.

I know times change and what's popular changes. That's fine, create a new game for that crowd. I like all kinds of games so I might like it too, but don't take an existing game and turn it into something else just because that's what's popular now. I wonder how many people that came into Fallout at #3 had ever played the first two. I bet most of them probably couldn't get through it with the lack of attention span these days. You had to pay attention to the conversations and pick up on clues instead of relying on quest markers to take you exactly where you need to go next.

When I look at FO4 and try to ignore that this is supposed to be Fallout, it actually looks like a decent open world FPS game, well except for the ugly, ridiculously huge weapon models taking up 1/4 of the screen.

BobBob wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 10:50:
Welcome to getting older.

That has nothing to do with it. I have no objection to change, as long as it's for the better. Change, just to change something to say "hey look we changed" is where I have a problem. This would be more like taking your favorite TV show after establishing itself over a few seasons then having it changed it to a completely different genre. What if the 5th season of Breaking Bad was all of the sudden a family friendly sitcom? It might be a good show released under its own name, but it's no longer the same show.

Fallout was never about the combat. Honestly the combat in the originals sucked. Now they've improved the combat, which is great, but they've stripped down the role playing that it's now pretty much just an an open world FPS.

According to the Steam reviews and MetaCritic you do not represent the majority view of Fallout 4. Basically you're an "80-year old" gamer, mentally.

It's just a video game. More than one complaining post means you are taking it way too seriously. Go outside and enjoy nature.

nin wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 10:01:

jimnms wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 09:53:
You wouldn't be saying that if some company bought the rights to a game franchise you loved and then shit all over it. This game could have stood on its own as a new IP, but buying the name of a loved RPG franchise and slapping its name on your product is going to draw comparisons to the originals.

Times change, and so does what's popular and what people like. Getting pissed about it isn't going to reverse that.

Enjoy the classics and let other folks enjoy what they like.

I know times change and what's popular changes. That's fine, create a new game for that crowd. I like all kinds of games so I might like it too, but don't take an existing game and turn it into something else just because that's what's popular now. I wonder how many people that came into Fallout at #3 had ever played the first two. I bet most of them probably couldn't get through it with the lack of attention span these days. You had to pay attention to the conversations and pick up on clues instead of relying on quest markers to take you exactly where you need to go next.

When I look at FO4 and try to ignore that this is supposed to be Fallout, it actually looks like a decent open world FPS game, well except for the ugly, ridiculously huge weapon models taking up 1/4 of the screen.

BobBob wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 10:50:
Welcome to getting older.

That has nothing to do with it. I have no objection to change, as long as it's for the better. Change, just to change something to say "hey look we changed" is where I have a problem. This would be more like taking your favorite TV show after establishing itself over a few seasons then having it changed it to a completely different genre. What if the 5th season of Breaking Bad was all of the sudden a family friendly sitcom? It might be a good show released under its own name, but it's no longer the same show.

Fallout was never about the combat. Honestly the combat in the originals sucked. Now they've improved the combat, which is great, but they've stripped down the role playing that it's now pretty much just an an open world FPS.

InBlack wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 07:13:

Agent.X7 wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 02:10:

heroin wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 01:39:
Lol, I agree 100% with what Shihonage is saying.

I completely disagree with those who keep tooting "times change" bullshit.

The original Fallout 1 & 2 are still motherfucking edgy, still innovative.

I remember when I was a kid and I only played the newest games or listened to the newest music, watched the newest movies. Over time, like Shihonage is saying most people develop some motherfucking taste. Doom metal would never have existed without a little band from 1966 called International Harvester, modern rock wouldn't have happened without the Velvet Underground being influenced by a minimalist piano player La Monte Young in the mid 1960's, Nirvana would never have happened if Lee Ranaldo & Thurston Moore of Sonic Youth had not played in the Glenn Branca Ensemble in the early 1980's, Radiohead would never have come up with Kid A without Can "Future Days" 1972. All that old shit was way before my time but it's way better, way more innovative than the shit that came afterwards, the shit it influenced. The same goes for film, Criterion collection shitting all over your art brains - let's see Bethesda shit take on David Lynch film, milk it Bethesda, milk that cow!! Let's see how shitty it is, but oh it's so weird and vast, they spent 100 mil on it, it must be good! Now everything is McMarvelled out the ass like a super hero happy meal shit storm of added food coloring multicolored diarrhea culture shit fuck, Bush 9/11.

Fallout 1 & 2 were that good, they stand the test of motherfucking time.

You know when people smoke pot and think they are making some genius argument but really they just sound ridiculous? ^

You know when people resort to baseless ad-hominem attacks just to appear "cool" and "snarky" but instead end up looking like total idiots?

Yes, you just demonstrated that. Read his post and tell me he make perfect sense all the way through. That last "sentence" is exactly what my brother sounds like when he is stoned and trying to make a point. He thinks it makes sense, sober people think he sounds like a moron.

PS - Using ad-hominem doesn't make you sound smarter, especially since debating a point based totally on personal preference and opinion with someone who is barely making any sense is pointless. But thanks for jumping in to defend him, I'm sure he appreciates it!

This comment was edited on Nov 11, 2015, 12:48.

jimnms wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 09:53:
You wouldn't be saying that if some company bought the rights to a game franchise you loved and then shit all over it. This game could have stood on its own as a new IP, but buying the name of a loved RPG franchise and slapping its name on your product is going to draw comparisons to the originals.

You're going to feel that way more and more as time passes and you stubbornly maintain your own viewpoint and habits. It will adversely affect you in every aspect of your life - from playing video games, taking a stroll through a park. to eating at a restaurant. Culture, language, entertainment, and all those things that you consider a part of your identity will continue to change around you. The frustration is completely normal. You can see it when old folks constantly talk about the 'good ole days' and the corruption of the 'younger generation'. It's the appeal to tradition. It's one of the most difficult logical fallacies to overcome.

I'll give an example of a non-video game related behavior. I was taught to treat ladies traditionally - that is hold doors open for them, allow them to go first, and help them carry heavy items. Often I go through a portion of a bicycle path that is obstructed by stairs. It requires one carry his/her bike up the stairs. Well, I always carry my wife's bicycle up the stairs. She likes it. But often, I see men have their girlfriends/wives/dates carry their own bicycle up the stairs. It boils my brain. I'm constantly shocked at the lack of 'traditional' - that is what I consider to be polite and correct - behavior. I'm sure the counter-argument is that women have equal rights, therefore should equally be allowed to carry their own bicycles. It can be argued, against tradition, that the man helping is a sign of displaying superiority and trying to make the woman feel weak. In my case, it's far from the truth, as it truly is a part of my upbringing to respect women as superior and to be cherished. As you can see, both sides will see the same situation differently, perhaps with both having good intentions of respecting women. However, no matter how much logic is thrown into it, both sides will see their own way as righteous and will be critical of the other.

This is a reoccurring theme in my life. I'm sure you're encountering it on a minuscule video game design level. Be prepared for this frustration to get a lot worse in every aspect of your life.

Welcome to getting older.

This comment was edited on Nov 11, 2015, 12:52.

Undocumented Alien wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 08:48:

Creston wrote on Nov 10, 2015, 12:08:

Undocumented Alien wrote on Nov 10, 2015, 11:04:
Enjoying it so far (2 hours in). Agree with Creston about the Character Models, kind of 'meh' but other than that, the environment looks very nice with a GTX 970. No bugs so far, changed the FoV to 90 in the 3/4 different .ini files and took off Mouse Acceleration. Going for a Sniper SPECIAL build, my close-up twitch days are numbered.

Do you get that weird thing during dialogue where the screen looks off by a bit? I think it's related to the FOV90 tweak. You'll notice it more when you get into the power armor.

Creston, the Dialog (and choices) seemed to be OK when I was in the Power Armor, I didn't notice any change from earlier in the game. Did you change the FOV in the few different places? Just do a c:\ search for Fallout4.ini and it should show you the 3 or 4 les and folder locations.

The weird thing is that it's fixed now. Both dialogue and power armor are showing up fine... No idea what happened, but it's all good.

jimnms wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 09:53:
You wouldn't be saying that if some company bought the rights to a game franchise you loved and then shit all over it. This game could have stood on its own as a new IP, but buying the name of a loved RPG franchise and slapping its name on your product is going to draw comparisons to the originals.

Times change, and so does what's popular and what people like. Getting pissed about it isn't going to reverse that.

Enjoy the classics and let other folks enjoy what they like.

Kxmode wrote on Nov 10, 2015, 16:59:

shihonage wrote on Nov 10, 2015, 15:37:
Fallout 1 had compact and effective writing. Effectively designed abstraction . . . [middle gutted] . . . where too many people offloaded crucial parts of their brains onto Google.

TL;DR you clearly have "issues" with Bethesda's Fallout series. Instead of bitching about the "good old days" (it's NEVER coming back) find another game you can enjoy. I hear the crowdfunded Wasteland 2 is quite good; or perhaps Starcraft 2: Legacy of the Void is more your thing.

You wouldn't be saying that if some company bought the rights to a game franchise you loved and then shit all over it. This game could have stood on its own as a new IP, but buying the name of a loved RPG franchise and slapping its name on your product is going to draw comparisons to the originals.

shihonage wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 06:59:
Enjoy your hoarding simulator.

Why does it bother you that people are having fun with this game?

Creston wrote on Nov 10, 2015, 12:08:

Undocumented Alien wrote on Nov 10, 2015, 11:04:
Enjoying it so far (2 hours in). Agree with Creston about the Character Models, kind of 'meh' but other than that, the environment looks very nice with a GTX 970. No bugs so far, changed the FoV to 90 in the 3/4 different .ini files and took off Mouse Acceleration. Going for a Sniper SPECIAL build, my close-up twitch days are numbered.

Do you get that weird thing during dialogue where the screen looks off by a bit? I think it's related to the FOV90 tweak. You'll notice it more when you get into the power armor.

Creston, the Dialog (and choices) seemed to be OK when I was in the Power Armor, I didn't notice any change from earlier in the game. Did you change the FOV in the few different places? Just do a c:\ search for Fallout4.ini and it should show you the 3 or 4 les and folder locations.

In regards to the 'debate' about how good this game is or not, if you liked FO3 or FNV, you will most likely enjoy FO4, else, you won't. Not sure why this is coming as such a big surprise to some people.

So far I'm having fun EXPLORING (and fighting in) the Commonwealth wasteland. There is interesting stuff to find if you don't just fly through everything. Some people say you get the Power Armor in the first five minutes of the game... I say... the phuck? Took me almost 2.5 hours to get to that point. Slow down and enjoy the ride.


This comment was edited on Nov 11, 2015, 09:41.

Agent.X7 wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 02:10:

heroin wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 01:39:
Lol, I agree 100% with what Shihonage is saying.

I completely disagree with those who keep tooting "times change" bullshit.

The original Fallout 1 & 2 are still motherfucking edgy, still innovative.

I remember when I was a kid and I only played the newest games or listened to the newest music, watched the newest movies. Over time, like Shihonage is saying most people develop some motherfucking taste. Doom metal would never have existed without a little band from 1966 called International Harvester, modern rock wouldn't have happened without the Velvet Underground being influenced by a minimalist piano player La Monte Young in the mid 1960's, Nirvana would never have happened if Lee Ranaldo & Thurston Moore of Sonic Youth had not played in the Glenn Branca Ensemble in the early 1980's, Radiohead would never have come up with Kid A without Can "Future Days" 1972. All that old shit was way before my time but it's way better, way more innovative than the shit that came afterwards, the shit it influenced. The same goes for film, Criterion collection shitting all over your art brains - let's see Bethesda shit take on David Lynch film, milk it Bethesda, milk that cow!! Let's see how shitty it is, but oh it's so weird and vast, they spent 100 mil on it, it must be good! Now everything is McMarvelled out the ass like a super hero happy meal shit storm of added food coloring multicolored diarrhea culture shit fuck, Bush 9/11.

Fallout 1 & 2 were that good, they stand the test of motherfucking time.

You know when people smoke pot and think they are making some genius argument but really they just sound ridiculous? ^

You know when people resort to baseless ad-hominem attacks just to appear "cool" and "snarky" but instead end up looking like total idiots?

Citizen P wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 06:27:
So, your almighty hallowed franchise declines in chapter 2.

You're allowed to mention Deus Ex to explore isometric vs FPS in regards to dynamic gameplay, but I can't mention another RPG from the same company because it has inconvenient tits? Are you a bigot, or blinded by fervor? Your inability to even address the main quest lines of all 4 titles objectively shows how indefensible your argument about depth of storytelling truly is. Roleplaying games are rife with kill and fed-ex quests, the context and reasons change, but that is the bread and butter, for good or ill.

So, your almighty hallowed franchise declines in chapter 2.

You're allowed to mention Deus Ex to explore isometric vs FPS in regards to dynamic gameplay, but I can't mention another RPG from the same company because it has inconvenient tits? Are you a bigot, or blinded by fervor? Your inability to even address the main quest lines of all 4 titles objectively shows how indefensible your argument about depth of storytelling truly is. Roleplaying games are rife with kill and fed-ex quests, the context and reasons change, but that is the bread and butter, for good or ill.

I have told you to stop your bleating and go play your unchanged game and enjoy it for what it, a great old game. Your not winning an argument here, because there is nothing to win. Or lose.

I hope your the last Unwashed Villager, because this obsessive pedantry is irrelevant and should be retired.
I have told you to stop your bleating and go play your unchanged game and enjoy it for what it, a great old game. Your not winning an argument here, because there is nothing to win. Or lose.

I hope your the last Unwashed Villager, because this obsessive pedantry is irrelevant and should be retired.

I've argued with people smarter than you about this subject in the past. So in fact, I expected you to do better, to try and provide a semblance of challenge. Some kind of logic. Anything, really.

Unfortunately, reducing each game to a phrase and claiming accuracy of comparison, makes it patently obvious that I'm arguing with none other than a child.

Repeating yourself like a broken record, grabbing onto cheap gotchas, doubling up on unclever insults... I don't need to paint a picture here that you haven't already painted yourself.

Google isn't gonna cover for you. Don't start arguments knowing nothing about the subject. This is some free advice for the future.

I'm done with you. Enjoy your hoarding simulator. Todd Howard loves you.

shihonage wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 05:56:
Yes, Fallout 2 is thematically poor. However, mechanically, in terms of world reactivity and freedom of player agency, in the details that matter, its programming and design is ages ahead of Bethesda.

Fallout 2 was the beginning of thematic decline, however it was still far more thematically cohesive than Fallout 3, and incomparably better when it came to meaningful utilization of stats and world reactivity.

So, your almighty hallowed franchise declines in chapter 2.

You're allowed to mention Deus Ex to explore isometric vs FPS in regards to dynamic gameplay, but I can't mention another RPG from the same company because it has inconvenient tits? Are you a bigot, or blinded by fervor? Your inability to even address the main quest lines of all 4 titles objectively shows how indefensible your argument about depth of storytelling truly is. Roleplaying games are rife with kill and fed-ex quests, the context and reasons change, but that is the bread and butter, for good or ill.

shihonage wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 05:56:
Yes, Fallout 2 is thematically poor. However, mechanically, in terms of world reactivity and freedom of player agency, in the details that matter, its programming and design is ages ahead of Bethesda.

Fallout 2 was the beginning of thematic decline, however it was still far more thematically cohesive than Fallout 3, and incomparably better when it came to meaningful utilization of stats and world reactivity.

So, your almighty hallowed franchise declines in chapter 2.

You're allowed to mention Deus Ex to explore isometric vs FPS in regards to dynamic gameplay, but I can't mention another RPG from the same company because it has inconvenient tits? Are you a bigot, or blinded by fervor? Your inability to even address the main quest lines of all 4 titles objectively shows how indefensible your argument about depth of storytelling truly is. Roleplaying games are rife with kill and fed-ex quests, the context and reasons change, but that is the bread and butter, for good or ill.

I have told you to stop your bleating and go play your unchanged game and enjoy it for what it, a great old game. Your not winning an argument here, because there is nothing to win. Or lose.

I hope your the last Unwashed Villager, because this obsessive pedantry is irrelevant and should be retired.
I have told you to stop your bleating and go play your unchanged game and enjoy it for what it, a great old game. Your not winning an argument here, because there is nothing to win. Or lose.

I hope your the last Unwashed Villager, because this obsessive pedantry is irrelevant and should be retired.

Citizen P wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 04:27:
You're an idiot, and that's okay. You don't want to grow up, and you want everything your way, the old wat, or no way - but you aren't a big enough to just let things go, you have whine and complain. Love to hate, grow up.

Protip: attributing reason to emotion is a poor defense. But then again, you've tasked yourself with defending the indefensible.

Let's review main quests:
F1: Get Water Chip to save Vault. A timed fetch quest.
F2: Get Geck to save village.
F3: Find Father who abandoned you.
FNV: Find the man that tried to kill you.

Reductio ad absurdum is not an argument.

Fallout 2 almost all of its art assets are from Fallout. Buggy as absolute hell on release, it was virtually unplayable.
Fallout 2 Had a whorehouse, moreover you could be a pornstar. A fetch quest involved finding dirty magazines, the game featured a number of whores, and getting a crimelord's daughter pregnant. Wow, that's edgy. Do you remember fetching golden gecko skins for rewards? I do. Do you remember the citizens of Planescape: Torment? Torpedo tits and bikinis everywhere.

Both Fallout's featured low-rent, at the time, celebrity voice acting.

Many quests in Fallout 1 and 2? Go here, kill this, get that, bring it back.

More reductio ad absurdum.

Back To The Future 2: a bad guy travels to the past, and good guy travels to the past to stop him in order to save the future

Terminator 2: a bad guy travels to the past, and good guy travels to the past to stop him in order to save the future

SAME MOVIE CLEARLY.

In other words, you make much noise, signifying nothing.

I think Fallout 1 is great, Fallout 2 is alright, and you're stuck in fantasyland.

It never gets old when people refer to Fallout as something that was so far in the past that it cannot be purchased, ran, re-experienced, or as if it is something that hasn't been thoroughly documented.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/The_Nearly_Ultimate_Fallout_Guide

A good guide like this, studied thoroughly, gives a good look at how rich Fallout's world was under the surface.

There are situations in Fallout that you'll never find in FO3/FO4 because they are simply too complex for Bethesda to script. They don't have the know-how.

But of course a troglodyte can blow through Fallout like they did with Diablo, and miss on the entirety of it all.

Fallout 2 is a parody of Fallout, instead of trying too hard to make great atmosphere they filled the game with as many popular culture references and bad jokes as they could.

Yes, Fallout 2 is thematically poor. However, mechanically, in terms of world reactivity and freedom of player agency, in the details that matter, its programming and design is ages ahead of Bethesda.

Fallout 2 was the beginning of thematic decline, however it was still far more thematically cohesive than Fallout 3, and incomparably better when it came to meaningful utilization of stats and world reactivity.

As for Planescape Torment, it was a vastly different design with its own strengths and weaknesses, which is outside the framework of this discussion. But yes, it was a classic game, unlikely to be reproduced in all its depth.

These days we have companies who have tools for growing 3D grass and making 3D houses, but zero knowledge on developing true world reactivity. That's how you end up with an NPC in Witcher 3 telling you his life story while you're robbing his house right in front of him.

loomy wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 01:13:
the way I see it, problem with fallout 4 is the same as fallout 3. it's morrowind with guns. the fact that the graphics and other qualities of fallout 4 have barely kept pace with the status quo seems secondary to me compared to how IT'S THE SAME FUCKING GAME OVER AND OVER AGAIN

You were expecting them to radically depart from FO3 / New Vegas, which were smash hits that brought in millions?

Weird.

Fallout 4 is an improvement on all aspects of the previous. I think the dialogue system is better, there is a little more chance your reply won't come across as you mean (Like real life...) as opposed to FO3/NV where you could tell EXACTLY what dialogue options led where. The color system for skill checks is better too, calculating your odds by a % was too easy to just pass on it. I risk it more in FO4.

And finally a loot system that makes sense. Fallout was filled with useless objects before, now they're all useful in some way or another. Even if you have to lug 10lbs (? whatever unit they weigh in game) of junk around for a couple of circuits and a few screws.

I also just realized you can demolish entire houses if they are collapsed in your settlement, along with cars/trees etc... HUGE building areas freed up. Definitely making a sky scraper.

This comment was edited on Nov 11, 2015, 05:19.

shihonage wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 01:14:

..

But hey, enjoy your skinner box. Enjoy fetching apples for people in a nonsensical world, and leveling up stats that mean nothing. Enjoy your invulnerable NPCs and one-word dialogue choices. Enjoy pointless, boring timesink activities that belong in an MMO, rather than a CRPG. Enjoy the hoarding. Enjoy the grind.

..

It's troglodytes like YOU who are still living in a mental equivalent of a cave, and YOU are helping companies like Bethesda produce same old, primitive, throwback-to-programmers-writing-dialogue-on-a-napkin shit with a newer skin.

I'm still waiting for people like you to develop taste. But stupid... stupid never changes.

You're an idiot, and that's okay. You don't want to grow up, and you want everything your way, the old wat, or no way - but you aren't a big enough to just let things go, you have whine and complain. Love to hate, grow up.

Let's review main quests:
F1: Get Water Chip to save Vault. A timed fetch quest.
F2: Get Geck to save village.
F3: Find Father who abandoned you.
FNV: Find the man that tried to kill you.

Fallout 2 almost all of its art assets are from Fallout. Buggy as absolute hell on release, it was virtually unplayable.
Fallout 2 Had a whorehouse, moreover you could be a pornstar. A fetch quest involved finding dirty magazines, the game featured a number of whores, and getting a crimelord's daughter pregnant. Wow, that's edgy. Do you remember fetching golden gecko skins for rewards? I do. Do you remember the citizens of Planescape: Torment? Torpedo tits and bikinis everywhere.

Both Fallout's featured low-rent, at the time, celebrity voice acting.

Many quests in Fallout 1 and 2? Go here, kill this, get that, bring it back.

I think Fallout 1 is great, Fallout 2 is alright, and you're stuck in fantasyland.

Fallout 2 is a parody of Fallout, instead of trying too hard to make great atmosphere they filled the game with as many popular culture references and bad jokes as they could.

Even still, Planescape Torment is still better than anything Fallout.

edit: n/m

heroin wrote on Nov 11, 2015, 01:39:
Lol, I agree 100% with what Shihonage is saying.

I completely disagree with those who keep tooting "times change" bullshit.

The original Fallout 1 & 2 are still motherfucking edgy, still innovative.

I remember when I was a kid and I only played the newest games or listened to the newest music, watched the newest movies. Over time, like Shihonage is saying most people develop some motherfucking taste. Doom metal would never have existed without a little band from 1966 called International Harvester, modern rock wouldn't have happened without the Velvet Underground being influenced by a minimalist piano player La Monte Young in the mid 1960's, Nirvana would never have happened if Lee Ranaldo & Thurston Moore of Sonic Youth had not played in the Glenn Branca Ensemble in the early 1980's, Radiohead would never have come up with Kid A without Can "Future Days" 1972. All that old shit was way before my time but it's way better, way more innovative than the shit that came afterwards, the shit it influenced. The same goes for film, Criterion collection shitting all over your art brains - let's see Bethesda shit take on David Lynch film, milk it Bethesda, milk that cow!! Let's see how shitty it is, but oh it's so weird and vast, they spent 100 mil on it, it must be good! Now everything is McMarvelled out the ass like a super hero happy meal shit storm of added food coloring multicolored diarrhea culture shit fuck, Bush 9/11.

Fallout 1 & 2 were that good, they stand the test of motherfucking time.

You know when people smoke pot and think they are making some genius argument but really they just sound ridiculous? ^

Lol, I agree 100% with what Shihonage is saying.

I completely disagree with those who keep tooting "times change" bullshit.

The original Fallout 1 & 2 are still motherfucking edgy, still innovative.

I remember when I was a kid and I only played the newest games or listened to the newest music, watched the newest movies. Over time, like Shihonage is saying most people develop some motherfucking taste. Doom metal would never have existed without a little band from 1966 called International Harvester, modern rock wouldn't have happened without the Velvet Underground being influenced by a minimalist piano player La Monte Young in the mid 1960's, Nirvana would never have happened if Lee Ranaldo & Thurston Moore of Sonic Youth had not played in the Glenn Branca Ensemble in the early 1980's, Radiohead would never have come up with Kid A without Can "Future Days" 1972. All that old shit was way before my time but it's way better, way more innovative than the shit that came afterwards, the shit it influenced. The same goes for film, Criterion collection shitting all over your art brains - let's see Bethesda shit take on David Lynch film, milk it Bethesda, milk that cow!! Let's see how shitty it is, but oh it's so weird and vast, they spent 100 mil on it, it must be good! Now everything is McMarvelled out the ass like a super hero happy meal shit storm of added food coloring multicolored diarrhea culture shit fuck, Bush 9/11.

Fallout 1 & 2 were that good, they stand the test of motherfucking time.

This comment was edited on Nov 11, 2015, 01:52.

Citizen P wrote on Nov 10, 2015, 20:49:
An RPG elitist! I appreciate your neckbeard is long, unwashed, and dusted orange with sacred cheetos, may your parents basement be everdark and foreboding to the profane sunlight and social graces of in-person human contact. The original Fallouts were great isometric games in their time, and that time has passed: go back and enjoy them, otherwise don't play these new iterations if they have sullied your perfect memories. Times change and things change with it, except you, in your basement and your sour fantasies.

The ultimate irony is of course is that you cling to the oldest crappiest game designs like they're new, just because a game comes out in 2015 with better graphics, which still uses them.

You actually live in the past!

When pointed at something better, you deride it because it is "old" chronologically, while in reality it was on the forefront of innovation, before decline started. And it still is!

Decline in gameplay happened, parallel with incline in graphics. To people like you, who believe a game written for adults means it has tits, that's all that ever mattered.

"Isometric" is a red herring. Not only is isometric perspective widely used today, but the original Deus Ex was an FPS, and it was chock-full of world and character reactivity like you will never see today, not even in Deus Ex:HR.

So was Fallout.

Fallout 1 had tremendous atmosphere, it made you care about something of your own volition, instead of stuffing heavy-handed sentiment down your throat. It didn't saddle you with idiotic filler quests. It had far more complexity and imagination to everything that happened, or could've happened, to you.

It rewarded you for being clever, for being your own person. It built an actual world that responded to the character you created.

But hey, enjoy your skinner box. Enjoy fetching apples for people in a nonsensical world, and leveling up stats that mean nothing. Enjoy your invulnerable NPCs and one-word dialogue choices. Enjoy pointless, boring timesink activities that belong in an MMO, rather than a CRPG. Enjoy the hoarding. Enjoy the grind.

But hey, cheer up. After all, you get to make your character look like Furiosa from Mad Max while she "crafts items".

It's troglodytes like YOU who are still living in a mental equivalent of a cave, and YOU are helping companies like Bethesda produce same old, primitive, throwback-to-programmers-writing-dialogue-on-a-napkin shit with a newer skin.

I'm still waiting for people like you to develop taste. But stupid... stupid never changes.