Tumbler wrote on Nov 4, 2015, 16:03:
It'd be great if they do something with Starcraft similar to WoW or hearthstone. The fantasy setting has never been my favorite (although Divinity Original Sin EE...holy shit is that fun)

Can't wait for CD Project red to do their cyberpunk thing. Loved Witcher 3 as well I think in large part because it wasn't "high fantasy".

Same here, prefer sci fi, but fantasy sells more sadly.

I love WOW, it is simply the best MMO there is. I will continue to play it as long as I can.

One can already see the parallels between WOW and the now moribund and mostly deserted Anarchy Online, a once popular MMO that was put on "benign neglect" by its parent company Funcom, while the company focused on new more profitable games.

Anarchy Online is still online, but your lucky if you see more than a handful of players anywhere in any zone. It took years to get to this point, but you will no longer see the same decline in numbers with WOW reported, Over years you may see it with your own eyes in game by the slowly declining number of players in-game.

This comment was edited on Nov 10, 2015, 06:41.

Krovven wrote on Nov 4, 2015, 19:31:
What I don't understand is how they can not report them, being a public company. Shareholders deserve to know and should demand to be kept informed.

The various disclosure laws that apply to publicly traded companies don't require them to disclose it. There's all kinds of operational data that companies don't disclose simply because they aren't required to by law, and because the shareholders aren't asking for it.

Most MMO developers stopped disclosing things like subscriber/concurrency numbers years ago, or never released that data at all. When the numbers inevitably begin to decline, it creates negativity in the community and perpetuates a snowball effect as people leave a "dying" game. Meanwhile the shareholders really don't give a shit about that number because it doesn't tell them anything that the financial data doesn't already tell them.

Another way to look at it: because of that snowball effect and bad PR from declining subscriber numbers, continuing to release that info would hit shareholders right in the money.

The subscriber numbers have always been more interesting to the lay-person than the shareholders, anyway.

WOW -- It's a helluva drug.

Nice run Blizz.

What I don't understand is how they can not report them, being a public company. Shareholders deserve to know and should demand to be kept informed.

Jamil20 wrote on Nov 4, 2015, 13:18:
I feel like I should give it another whirl before the end. I haven't played since a year after launch. I would like to see how it has changed since then. I wonder if my toon still exists. He would still be at level 60.

The most recent Draenor expansion is a ton of fun. Beyond the usual mission chains, you secure a fortress base for yourself, and then a small outpost in each different land.

If anything, there wasn't enough of that. I figured out how to trigger precisely one invasion of my fort.

This was the first time I resubscribed since Cataclysm, which I never finished, except for a couple of months here and there.

You get one instant 90 character, so you can start the expansion immediately. I used it to clone my 85, which I had pumped up from 70 (? Can't remember, resubbed briefly a few times) a few weeks earlier prior to the release.

Jamil20 wrote on Nov 4, 2015, 13:18:
I feel like I should give it another whirl before the end. I haven't played since a year after launch. I would like to see how it has changed since then. I wonder if my toon still exists. He would still be at level 60.

Last time I really played it still, Lich King was the last expansions. I still somewhat enjoyed playing it then, but yeah the massive changes that have happened over the last few years has been the thing that's kept me from resubbing. People want their unique classes back, fails, faults and all, along with their unique talent trees, and more skills than you can shake a stick at.

From my friends, who only recently quit. Their big complaint especially in raid content was gimicky fights, not tough fights. All of us remember the Vale gear check + ability check that was there, and loved the hell out of it. Anyway, Blizz has said they never delete characters, so your toon would be still around. But they'll have moved them to a major city with all the content changes.

Blizzcon is just a few days away. We'll see what they announce.

The core game-play mechanics for WoW has gone stale. That's why the subs are dropping. Revamping the individual systems only goes so far.

It'd be great if they do something with Starcraft similar to WoW or hearthstone. The fantasy setting has never been my favorite (although Divinity Original Sin EE...holy shit is that fun)

Can't wait for CD Project red to do their cyberpunk thing. Loved Witcher 3 as well I think in large part because it wasn't "high fantasy".

Jamil20 wrote on Nov 4, 2015, 15:41:

nin wrote on Nov 4, 2015, 13:23:
I'm pretty sure they've said they're already working on the next expansion after the one that's not even in beta yet. You have years to go.

I'd like to play it before it goes 'New Game Enhancement'

Well that all depends who you talk to.

nin wrote on Nov 4, 2015, 13:23:
I'm pretty sure they've said they're already working on the next expansion after the one that's not even in beta yet. You have years to go.

I'd like to play it before it goes 'New Game Enhancement'

Blackhawk wrote on Nov 4, 2015, 15:19:
The reason for the decline is simple: It is over a decade old. It has gone on far longer than Blizzard anticipated. I remember an interview back in the Wrath of the Lich King days where they mentioned that their plan was to eventually end the game at level 100 after three more expanisons, and that by then they'd have declined enough that it wouldn't be worth it to keep going.

I understand that the age of the product is also another reason why some have turned away from the game. However, Blizzard must believe in their product seeing as how they 'recently' made the claim that it could last another 10 years. That said, I forget whether they made that statement before or after the community realized that Warlords was garbage and they're no strangers to foot-in-mouth syndrome.

shihonage wrote on Nov 4, 2015, 14:31:
Nostalrius PVE (just opened) also has thousands, but likely will be less prolific.

From what I heard, they have working scripts for boss encounters which is a huge deal when it comes to private servers aside from stability.

Blizzard isn't stupid. They know their business. They have planned on WoW's decline for a long, long time.

The reason for the decline is simple: It is over a decade old. It has gone on far longer than Blizzard anticipated. I remember an interview back in the Wrath of the Lich King days where they mentioned that their plan was to eventually end the game at level 100 after three more expanisons, and that by then they'd have declined enough that it wouldn't be worth it to keep going.

They blew by that, and are still posting numbers that would make any other MMO developer faint with joy. That isn't failing. That's being hugely successful.

"Subscribers numbers are no longer relevant as we've stopped a strategy of enticing new people to play the game. Instead, we've decided to focus on milking the loyal fans we have that are too invested and addicted of everything they have while at the same time lowering costs on our end. Win, win.

The new metric we'll report is average DPS or Dollars Per Soul"

If you want a quality WoW experience, it can be found on Nostalrius, a vanilla emulated server. Party like it's 2006, before all the dumbing down and inconsistent art style "upgrades". Max out anisotropy and AA, and the game still looks good.

Nostalrius PVP (primary server) has population of anywhere between 3500 and 7000 people at a given time, usually.

Nostalrius PVE (just opened) also has thousands, but likely will be less prolific.

nin wrote on Nov 4, 2015, 13:34:

saluk wrote on Nov 4, 2015, 13:31:
Why the decline? Is it the game itself? Did enough other mmos finally gain traction to drag the userbase away? I haven't tried a new mmo in a while - does everyone in chat still go in and complain about how much worse than WoW it is? Is it cell phones?

Could just be my own observation, but it seems like, as time has gone on, more and more folks re-up for a new expansion, blow through the content in a month or two, and then unsub for 18 months. They've always struggled with keeping people hooked with new content, and if you don't raid...

MMOs have always struggled between providing too much content and not enough, simply because of the wide variety of player engagement. Too much content and your casuals won't be interested in new things because they haven't done the old stuff; not enough and your hardcore players will blow through it in a weekend.

At the end of the day, though, I kind of feel MMOs have passed, simply because of the time investment involved, and the relative lack of success at making a more short-burst MMO. The closest thing to a short-burst MMO has been doing pretty well for a good long while now... it's called Destiny.

Why the decline? Is it the game itself? Did enough other mmos finally gain traction to drag the userbase away? I haven't tried a new mmo in a while - does everyone in chat still go in and complain about how much worse than WoW it is? Is it cell phones?

Probably cell phones. Stupid cell phones ruining everything.

Wait. I don't care about WoW. Fine cell phones, you can have this one. But I'm watching you.

Aging player base who now have careers, kids, mortgages and etc not being replaced fast enough by new players who are more into F2P games and possibly other markets (mobile/whatever).

I stopped playing years ago. WoW is a great game but I didn't have enough time. They tried their best to accommodate my schedule with lots of small time commitment type stuff but I didn't get the same satisfaction out of those aspects. That and I felt like I was missing out on too many other great games.

No regrets, met lots of cool people and enjoyed most of the game but it was time to move on. I'm sure other big games have put a dent in them too, Minecraft and all that.

saluk wrote on Nov 4, 2015, 13:31:
Why the decline? Is it the game itself? Did enough other mmos finally gain traction to drag the userbase away? I haven't tried a new mmo in a while - does everyone in chat still go in and complain about how much worse than WoW it is? Is it cell phones?

Could just be my own observation, but it seems like, as time has gone on, more and more folks re-up for a new expansion, blow through the content in a month or two, and then unsub for 18 months. They've always struggled with keeping people hooked with new content, and if you don't raid...

Why the decline? Is it the game itself? Did enough other mmos finally gain traction to drag the userbase away? I haven't tried a new mmo in a while - does everyone in chat still go in and complain about how much worse than WoW it is? Is it cell phones?

Probably cell phones. Stupid cell phones ruining everything.

Wait. I don't care about WoW. Fine cell phones, you can have this one. But I'm watching you.

El Pit wrote on Nov 4, 2015, 13:21:

True! It's still a cash cow, although it is slowly going down. But it's kind of funny that ActiBlizz is trying to hide this. Whatever.

They're not trying to hide it. Random people over the internet who don't even play WoW has known of this slow decline for years now. It just means that they will no longer announce it to everyone.