Out of the Blue

With Halloween a little more than a week off, the preparations are in place here at the BlueTower. We have an ample supply of candy on hand, and I have been dutiful in checking to make sure it's all fresh and tasty. We also have a new costume for the Gunnar-man, which I picked up a couple of weeks ago. I just deleted a mention of what it is, as I think I'll wait until next week when I can post some photos and not spoil it.

Dressy Links: Thanks Ant and Acleacius.
Play: Jack Lantern.
Stunt Crazy.
Bazookitty.
Link: 5 Insane Things Otherwise Respected Celebrities Believe.
Science: Many Antidepressant Studies Found Tainted by Pharma Company Influence.
Images: Honestly from Microsoft.
43 Photos That Prove That Everything In Your Life Is A Lie (Slide #1).
Media: Saving the world, one quarter at a time.
The First Person To Run A Marathon Without Telling Anyone.
Purranormal Cativity.
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23 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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23.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Oct 24, 2015, 07:39
23.
Re: Out of the Blue Oct 24, 2015, 07:39
Oct 24, 2015, 07:39
 
jdreyer wrote on Oct 24, 2015, 03:13:
"Bae is the Danish word for poop."

Heh, my daughter's friends use this word all the time. It annoys her, so this will go as a tool on her tool belt.

hah i find that word irritating as fuck. did kids get so lazy they had to drop a single letter from a four letter word? also, en flique? really, they're just trying too hard now.
22.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Oct 24, 2015, 03:13
22.
Re: Out of the Blue Oct 24, 2015, 03:13
Oct 24, 2015, 03:13
 
"Bae is the Danish word for poop."

Heh, my daughter's friends use this word all the time. It annoys her, so this will go as a tool on her tool belt.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
Avatar 22024
21.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Oct 23, 2015, 22:54
21.
Re: Out of the Blue Oct 23, 2015, 22:54
Oct 23, 2015, 22:54
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Oct 23, 2015, 22:01:
I looked at it after you said it was really useful. I won't say I would have found the problem quickly, but as a network guy I am aware that all cabling is a potential source of wifi interference.

Well I am very thankful this problem is solved... and even more thankful that we have extremely knowledgeable guys and girls here. Honestly wouldn't have had a clue where else to even ask such a.. weird question.

You can be assured that I will now obviously also know that USB 3.0 can be a big source of wifi (and bluetooth) interference. (I guess this explains why many tablets do not have real USB ports)

This comment was edited on Oct 23, 2015, 22:59.
Avatar 54727
20.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Oct 23, 2015, 22:01
20.
Re: Out of the Blue Oct 23, 2015, 22:01
Oct 23, 2015, 22:01
 
I looked at it after you said it was really useful. I won't say I would have found the problem quickly, but as a network guy I am aware that all cabling is a potential source of wifi interference.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
19.
 
Re: Just killed my WLAN and I hate physics
Oct 23, 2015, 21:28
19.
Re: Just killed my WLAN and I hate physics Oct 23, 2015, 21:28
Oct 23, 2015, 21:28
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Oct 23, 2015, 20:38:
Genesys wrote on Oct 23, 2015, 20:02:
eRe4s3r wrote on Oct 23, 2015, 19:23:
I must have skipped the part in my physics education where electromagnetic fields could influence radio waves.... fucking advanced technology.. it really is like voodoo magic.. and if it breaks you really need a Shaman nowadays.. man
I think you missed the part in your physics education that said that radio waves ARE elctromagnetec fields! :)

USB 3.0's 5 Ghz signal rate, in particular, will interfere with bluetooth and 2.4 Ghz wifi signals: USB 3.0* Radio Frequency Interference on 2.4 GHz Devices Make sure you buy USB hubs with fully-shielded plugs, and see if you can get an external antenna for your NUC.

Wow.. that is one of the most informative replies I could have hoped for. And yeah, I have to admit my physics education was... let's just say, not my favorite thing in school (not that WLAN or USB existed back then...) So that would explain why it fixes itself when the NUC is a distance away from the HUBS/DESK/LCD and not anywhere near a metal frame desk (which I guess would reflect the USB interference back into the case-antenna even if it is.. or maybe exactly because it is not touching the metal frame directly?

As I said, that's some pretty dang informative link you dug up there. Never even made the connection with USB 3.0 frequencies... that could indeed have been the problem I had.

Just mentioning this.. but this was the indeed the problem.. wow.

One of my hubs is a cheap-ass hub, the other is very premium much wow.. and so on. The USB cables to hub 1 (USB 3.0) are all connected to USB 3.0 ports. The cables are very very convoluted on my desk.. so I straightened them and put the (full) hub basically way away from my desk. The cables go STRAIGHT off and away from the NUC which does not sit anywhere near metal now.

This essentially fixed the problem entirely

So.. THANK YOU SO MUCH Genesys I'd never have drawn this connection. Somehow the (USB 3.0) CABLES and the USB 3.0 external HDD alone created this localized interference. One of the primary culprits (Wlan immediately resumed) was my external usb 3.0 HDD and its cable (which I had tucked together because it was too long...) just like in that info graphic in that link you gave essentially. Seeing how the test setup was I put the cable as straight away from the NUC as possible and put the actual HDD as far as away as is absolutely possible and connected it to an USB 2.0 hub instead of the USB 3.0 hub. Suddenly it all works again and the distortion is nowhere to be found. So it seems a series of shielding problems that resulted in a total collapse of WLAN was the source.

I learned something fundamentally new here. Thank you again.

Ps.: TL;DR it was the external USB 3.0 HDD when connected to the USB 3.0 hub. That alone (well, and it's very long cable!) created enough interference to kill my wifi...

This comment was edited on Oct 23, 2015, 21:44.
Avatar 54727
18.
 
Re: Just killed my WLAN and I hate physics
Oct 23, 2015, 21:15
18.
Re: Just killed my WLAN and I hate physics Oct 23, 2015, 21:15
Oct 23, 2015, 21:15
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Oct 23, 2015, 20:27:
eRe4s3r wrote on Oct 23, 2015, 19:23:
I must have skipped the part in my physics education where electromagnetic fields could influence radio waves..
Okay, this doesn't make it particularly less weird, but you do realize that radio waves are electromagnetic waves, right? From Wiki:

Radio waves are a type of electromagnetic radiation with wavelengths in the electromagnetic spectrum longer than infrared light. Radio waves have frequencies from 300 GHz to as low as 3 kHz, and corresponding wavelengths ranging from 1 millimeter (0.039 in) to 100 kilometers (62 mi).

Edit: Ha! Walked away for a small task and Genesys beats me to it, oh well.

Well yeah I made a huge doozy there, but I honestly couldn't fathom how something can create such a huge interference out of nowhere and so localized too around my desk, but did you check the link he posted? That's some Grade A WTF stuff right there.

Well, don't say bluesnews OOTB isn't informative as hell every now and then
Avatar 54727
17.
 
Re: Just killed my WLAN and I hate physics
Oct 23, 2015, 20:38
17.
Re: Just killed my WLAN and I hate physics Oct 23, 2015, 20:38
Oct 23, 2015, 20:38
 
Genesys wrote on Oct 23, 2015, 20:02:
eRe4s3r wrote on Oct 23, 2015, 19:23:
I must have skipped the part in my physics education where electromagnetic fields could influence radio waves.... fucking advanced technology.. it really is like voodoo magic.. and if it breaks you really need a Shaman nowadays.. man
I think you missed the part in your physics education that said that radio waves ARE elctromagnetec fields! :)

USB 3.0's 5 Ghz signal rate, in particular, will interfere with bluetooth and 2.4 Ghz wifi signals: USB 3.0* Radio Frequency Interference on 2.4 GHz Devices Make sure you buy USB hubs with fully-shielded plugs, and see if you can get an external antenna for your NUC.

Wow.. that is one of the most informative replies I could have hoped for. And yeah, I have to admit my physics education was... let's just say, not my favorite thing in school (not that WLAN or USB existed back then...) So that would explain why it fixes itself when the NUC is a distance away from the HUBS/DESK/LCD and not anywhere near a metal frame desk (which I guess would reflect the USB interference back into the case-antenna even if it is.. or maybe exactly because it is not touching the metal frame directly?

As I said, that's some pretty dang informative link you dug up there. Never even made the connection with USB 3.0 frequencies... that could indeed have been the problem I had.
Avatar 54727
16.
 
Re: Just killed my WLAN and I hate physics
Oct 23, 2015, 20:27
16.
Re: Just killed my WLAN and I hate physics Oct 23, 2015, 20:27
Oct 23, 2015, 20:27
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Oct 23, 2015, 19:23:
I must have skipped the part in my physics education where electromagnetic fields could influence radio waves..
Okay, this doesn't make it particularly less weird, but you do realize that radio waves are electromagnetic waves, right? From Wiki:

Radio waves are a type of electromagnetic radiation with wavelengths in the electromagnetic spectrum longer than infrared light. Radio waves have frequencies from 300 GHz to as low as 3 kHz, and corresponding wavelengths ranging from 1 millimeter (0.039 in) to 100 kilometers (62 mi).

Edit: Ha! Walked away for a small task and Genesys beats me to it, oh well.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
15.
 
Re: Just killed my WLAN and I hate physics
Oct 23, 2015, 20:02
15.
Re: Just killed my WLAN and I hate physics Oct 23, 2015, 20:02
Oct 23, 2015, 20:02
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Oct 23, 2015, 19:23:
I must have skipped the part in my physics education where electromagnetic fields could influence radio waves.... fucking advanced technology.. it really is like voodoo magic.. and if it breaks you really need a Shaman nowadays.. man
I think you missed the part in your physics education that said that radio waves ARE elctromagnetec fields! :)

USB 3.0's 5 Ghz signal rate, in particular, will interfere with bluetooth and 2.4 Ghz wifi signals: USB 3.0* Radio Frequency Interference on 2.4 GHz Devices Make sure you buy USB hubs with fully-shielded plugs, and see if you can get an external antenna for your NUC.
Avatar 55658
14.
 
Just killed my WLAN and I hate physics
Oct 23, 2015, 19:23
14.
Just killed my WLAN and I hate physics Oct 23, 2015, 19:23
Oct 23, 2015, 19:23
 
Wanna read something that makes you scratch your head?

I have a steel framed wood desk, 2 powered usb hubs, an INTEL NUC with integrated antenna. The case is Aluminum, WLAN worked fine. And I have lots of USB cables. Now imagine my surprise, when I put a 2nd USB hub on the DESK it killed my WLAN if, and only if, my NUC was positioned in a narrow field below the right panel edge of my LCD

I could literally trace the WLAN death field to what amounts a 30cm³ bubble around the right side of the LCD panel (where my NUC was sitting) if, and only if the 2 hubs are connected to the NUC and the devices I need are plugged in. The more devices plugged in the HUBS = the larger the field, but only if the NUC sat on the metal framed press-wood desk. (The hubs could be anywhere..)

So somehow I created a 2.4ghz distortion field by putting 2 USB hubs, a NUC, a LCD screen and a ton of cables on a metal framed desk. I put the NUC on a book a bit to the side = WLAN resumed working.

So what the fuck? How can electricity in USB hubs and a LCD panel edge reaching above my NUC create a distortion field that amounts to a bubble like shape around that desk?

I am stumped.. in all my time in IT I have *NEVER* seen anything like this. I.. I don't even understand how this is possible. Somehow I have created a distortion field that could literally create 100% absorption field for 2.4ghz WLAN signals.

So yeah, my day was fun Diagnosing this was anything but straightforward. I have a TON of wlan devices here and never had this happen before.

I must have skipped the part in my physics education where electromagnetic fields could influence radio waves.... fucking advanced technology.. it really is like voodoo magic.. and if it breaks you really need a Shaman nowadays.. man

Btw.. I may just have found a design fault in these particular intel NUC cases when you use internal WLAN cards. I know the case IS the "antenna" but the device is not touching metal anywhere.. so I think the USB connectors themselves must be inducing some kind of distortion that kills WLAN and creates a sort of feedback loop in the antenna. Since the field was not traceable with a tablet. But the wlan death field only exists when the device is *on* the desk. Weird..

This comment was edited on Oct 23, 2015, 19:36.
Avatar 54727
13.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Oct 23, 2015, 18:41
13.
Re: Out of the Blue Oct 23, 2015, 18:41
Oct 23, 2015, 18:41
 
jdreyer wrote on Oct 23, 2015, 17:25:
Saving the world, one quarter at a time.

That dude has some serious suspension of disbelief going on.

True. Did not see a lot of disbelief being suspended by the other people in the arcade though.
Stephen "Blue" Heaslip
Blue's News Publisher, Editor-in-Chief, El Presidente for Life
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12.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Oct 23, 2015, 17:25
12.
Re: Out of the Blue Oct 23, 2015, 17:25
Oct 23, 2015, 17:25
 
Saving the world, one quarter at a time.

That dude has some serious suspension of disbelief going on.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
Avatar 22024
11.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Oct 23, 2015, 17:20
11.
Re: Out of the Blue Oct 23, 2015, 17:20
Oct 23, 2015, 17:20
 
Pigeon wrote on Oct 23, 2015, 16:24:
Cutter wrote on Oct 23, 2015, 13:49:
Almost 80 percent of meta-analyses in the review had some sort of industry tie, either through sponsorship, which the authors defined as direct industry funding of the study, or conflicts of interest, defined as any situation in which one or more authors were either industry employees or independent researchers receiving any type of industry support (including speaking fees and research grants). Especially troubling, the study showed about 7 percent of researchers had undisclosed conflicts of interest.

Yeah, you'd have thunk the influence would be pretty high, but not that high.

Celebs are stupid, racists, and bigots? Shocker!


Its not surprising. Research has to be paid for, and the ones who will pay for it do so because because they have a vested interest in the outcome of the research. I'd say if you wanted more independent research the government needs to hand out far more grants, but seeing as it's legal for corporations to bribe elected officials it's not much better an option.

The stuff I've read shows that antidepressants are really most effective in conjunction with other kinds of therapy. Alone, they don't do much.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
Avatar 22024
10.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Oct 23, 2015, 16:24
10.
Re: Out of the Blue Oct 23, 2015, 16:24
Oct 23, 2015, 16:24
 
Cutter wrote on Oct 23, 2015, 13:49:
Almost 80 percent of meta-analyses in the review had some sort of industry tie, either through sponsorship, which the authors defined as direct industry funding of the study, or conflicts of interest, defined as any situation in which one or more authors were either industry employees or independent researchers receiving any type of industry support (including speaking fees and research grants). Especially troubling, the study showed about 7 percent of researchers had undisclosed conflicts of interest.

Yeah, you'd have thunk the influence would be pretty high, but not that high.

Celebs are stupid, racists, and bigots? Shocker!


Its not surprising. Research has to be paid for, and the ones who will pay for it do so because because they have a vested interest in the outcome of the research. I'd say if you wanted more independent research the government needs to hand out far more grants, but seeing as it's legal for corporations to bribe elected officials it's not much better an option.
9.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Oct 23, 2015, 16:19
9.
Re: Out of the Blue Oct 23, 2015, 16:19
Oct 23, 2015, 16:19
 
Bet? Dude?
8.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Oct 23, 2015, 13:49
8.
Re: Out of the Blue Oct 23, 2015, 13:49
Oct 23, 2015, 13:49
 
Almost 80 percent of meta-analyses in the review had some sort of industry tie, either through sponsorship, which the authors defined as direct industry funding of the study, or conflicts of interest, defined as any situation in which one or more authors were either industry employees or independent researchers receiving any type of industry support (including speaking fees and research grants). Especially troubling, the study showed about 7 percent of researchers had undisclosed conflicts of interest.

Yeah, you'd have thunk the influence would be pretty high, but not that high.

Celebs are stupid, racists, and bigots? Shocker!

"The horse I bet on was so slow, the jockey kept a diary of the trip." - Henny Youngman
7.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Oct 23, 2015, 12:36
7.
Re: Out of the Blue Oct 23, 2015, 12:36
Oct 23, 2015, 12:36
 
Love it!
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6.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Oct 23, 2015, 12:22
Quboid
 
6.
Re: Out of the Blue Oct 23, 2015, 12:22
Oct 23, 2015, 12:22
 Quboid
 
Necrophob wrote on Oct 23, 2015, 11:40:
"Many Antidepressant Studies Found Tainted by Pharma Company Influence"

I guess I'd be shocked, if I wasn't so jaded. Maybe there's a pill for that?

I think it's more of a powder.
Avatar 10439
5.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Oct 23, 2015, 11:51
5.
Re: Out of the Blue Oct 23, 2015, 11:51
Oct 23, 2015, 11:51
 
Necrophob wrote on Oct 23, 2015, 11:40:
"Many Antidepressant Studies Found Tainted by Pharma Company Influence"

I guess I'd be shocked, if I wasn't so jaded. Maybe there's a pill for that?
"I am shocked, SHOCKED! To find out there is gambling going on here."
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
4.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Oct 23, 2015, 11:40
4.
Re: Out of the Blue Oct 23, 2015, 11:40
Oct 23, 2015, 11:40
 
"Many Antidepressant Studies Found Tainted by Pharma Company Influence"

I guess I'd be shocked, if I wasn't so jaded. Maybe there's a pill for that?
Avatar 55616
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