Star Citizen's $900 Ship

The Roberts Space Industries website is now selling another virtual ship for Star Citizen with an eye-popping price tag. The new ship for Cloud Imperium's upcoming space combat game is the Endeavor-class research vessel, described as "a fully modular space platform designed to be adapted for a variety of scientific and medical tasks." The outlay for this is $900.00 USD, which is 15 times the price of the typical AAA game, and more than enough to buy a gaming PC. Here's more on the Endeavor: "Initially developed as a floating laboratory, the MISC Endeavor can be outfitted for everything from spatial telescopy to use as mobile hospital."
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197.
 
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship
Oct 3, 2015, 01:32
Kxmode
 
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship Oct 3, 2015, 01:32
Oct 3, 2015, 01:32
 Kxmode
 
jdreyer wrote on Oct 2, 2015, 17:31:
BTW, congrats on making Ninja. You were always pretty verbose, but the recent SC brouhahas have pushed you over the top.

Hory shet! My forum avatar is finally relevant! Only took 12 years
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
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196.
 
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship
Oct 2, 2015, 17:31
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship Oct 2, 2015, 17:31
Oct 2, 2015, 17:31
 
Kxmode wrote on Oct 2, 2015, 13:10:
Zor wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 15:45:
Just look at the recent BattleTech KS. $2000? $4000? $10,000?
On second thought, nah. It's not CIG/CR so no body cares, even if its the exact same issue..

Oh you went there didn't you. Okay let me lay a world of hurt on you bruv.

1. HBR has a successful crowdfunding record track.
2. You can buy HBR's games on Steam and elsewhere today.
3. They haven't produced vaporware.
4. Battletech hit one million in less than 24 hours; something Star Citizen can never claim to be.

Want me to keep going? I could do this all day.

BTW, congrats on making Ninja. You were always pretty verbose, but the recent SC brouhahas have pushed you over the top.
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." Isaac Asimov
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195.
 
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship
Oct 2, 2015, 13:10
Kxmode
 
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship Oct 2, 2015, 13:10
Oct 2, 2015, 13:10
 Kxmode
 
Zor wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 15:45:
Just look at the recent BattleTech KS. $2000? $4000? $10,000?
On second thought, nah. It's not CIG/CR so no body cares, even if its the exact same issue..

Oh you went there didn't you. Okay let me lay a world of hurt on you bruv.

1. HBR has a successful crowdfunding record track.
2. You can buy HBR's games on Steam and elsewhere today.
3. They haven't produced vaporware.
4. Battletech hit one million in less than 24 hours; something Star Citizen can never claim to be.

Want me to keep going? I could do this all day.
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
Avatar 18786
194.
 
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship
Oct 2, 2015, 00:20
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship Oct 2, 2015, 00:20
Oct 2, 2015, 00:20
 
jdreyer wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 22:34:
Creston wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 20:51:
Zor wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 15:45:
But you should also be fair and start doing similar posts about every other crowd funded project and kickstarter that has "eye popping" pledge choices.

Just look at the recent BattleTech KS. $2000? $4000? $10,000?

Coming from a studio that has delivered two complete games (Can't remember off the top of my head if they did a third kickstarter? For a card game or something?) that have been extremely well received, that were delivered on time and on budget, and where all the pledge rewards were promptly delivered.

So yeah, really great comparison to the reality show that is Star Citizen...

His comparison is valid though. I think his complaint was that Blue took the price for the fully maxed Endeavor, instead of providing the range of everything that's being made available, i.e. $350 to $900. That's like mentioning the KS for BT is $10000, without mentioning that it starts at $5 and goes up to $10000.

Except that according to my kickstarter page, there already *was* a 10,000 pledge level. If we're going to be precise.
193.
 
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship
Oct 1, 2015, 23:24
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship Oct 1, 2015, 23:24
Oct 1, 2015, 23:24
 
RedEye9 wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 23:20:
Blue, you are more than fair. Please don't change a thing.

BUT, If you were to change anything I wish you would sell bluesnews mousepads, t-shirts and 20 oz coffee cups w/your branding...
Keep up the good work and gaming coverage.
Ditto.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies." -- Groucho Marx
192.
 
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship
Oct 1, 2015, 23:20
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship Oct 1, 2015, 23:20
Oct 1, 2015, 23:20
 
Zor wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 15:45:
But you should also be fair and start doing similar posts about every other crowd funded project and kickstarter that has "eye popping" pledge choices.

Blue, you are more than fair. Please don't change a thing.

BUT, If you were to change anything I wish you would sell bluesnews mousepads, t-shirts and 20 oz coffee cups w/your branding...
Keep up the good work and gaming coverage.
“The time has come for us to move beyond seeing public health as the ax in the display case, where the sign says IN CASE OF EMERGENCY, BREAK GLASS.”
Pandemics don’t end because the economy is suffering and we want them to.
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191.
 
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship
Oct 1, 2015, 22:34
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship Oct 1, 2015, 22:34
Oct 1, 2015, 22:34
 
Creston wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 20:51:
Zor wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 15:45:
But you should also be fair and start doing similar posts about every other crowd funded project and kickstarter that has "eye popping" pledge choices.

Just look at the recent BattleTech KS. $2000? $4000? $10,000?

Coming from a studio that has delivered two complete games (Can't remember off the top of my head if they did a third kickstarter? For a card game or something?) that have been extremely well received, that were delivered on time and on budget, and where all the pledge rewards were promptly delivered.

So yeah, really great comparison to the reality show that is Star Citizen...

His comparison is valid though. I think his complaint was that Blue took the price for the fully maxed Endeavor, instead of providing the range of everything that's being made available, i.e. $350 to $900. That's like mentioning the KS for BT is $10000, without mentioning that it starts at $5 and goes up to $10000.
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." Isaac Asimov
Avatar 22024
190.
 
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship
Oct 1, 2015, 20:51
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship Oct 1, 2015, 20:51
Oct 1, 2015, 20:51
 
Zor wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 15:45:
But you should also be fair and start doing similar posts about every other crowd funded project and kickstarter that has "eye popping" pledge choices.

Just look at the recent BattleTech KS. $2000? $4000? $10,000?

Coming from a studio that has delivered two complete games (Can't remember off the top of my head if they did a third kickstarter? For a card game or something?) that have been extremely well received, that were delivered on time and on budget, and where all the pledge rewards were promptly delivered.

So yeah, really great comparison to the reality show that is Star Citizen...
Avatar 15604
189.
 
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship
Oct 1, 2015, 19:07
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship Oct 1, 2015, 19:07
Oct 1, 2015, 19:07
 
Replayed Mass Effect 2 the other day. I was astounded at how many times that crate asset was used. They even used it to build walls!

I can totally see how CR is now all, "Movie production modelling for games!". Modelers over-model EVERYTHING now. It's super annoying to get passed off that asset. You literally spend a day stripping it down so you can interact with it.

The helicarriers for Winter Soldier still give me nightmares.
188.
 
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship
Oct 1, 2015, 18:33
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship Oct 1, 2015, 18:33
Oct 1, 2015, 18:33
 
Kosumo wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 18:12:
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 10:40:
At the moment CIG has around 250 staff - even if you assume an average salary of $80,000 (the industry average) that's only $1.7m a month. It also has around 100 contractors, who will be paid a fraction of that (even if you assume $50,000 that's $0.4m).

Why do you think contractors will only be paid a fraction of that? Your totally wrong. If you where right they would do the whole game with nothing but contractors.
Because they're not employed for the entire year - they're brought on for specific jobs. And yes, contractors are used a lot precisely to keep costs down - it's cheaper than hiring full-time employees.

Kosumo wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 18:12:
Plus your basic maths is very bad, 100 contractors @ $50,000 is .5 million not .4 - which is wrong anyway due to your numbers being wrong (plus the contractors may not work for the whole year.
My maths is just fine: $50,000 / 12 months * 100 employees = $416,666

Kosumo wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 18:12:
Scaling down would put them in a death spiral and Chris Roberts knows that which is why he is trying to scale up (but not in the US, because I think he is using tax credits in UK and Germany)
Scaling down would involve all aspects of the development - fewer outfits / environments, quicker turnaround (fewer passes), more reused assets, greater reliance on procedural generation, etc. The number of developers is based on the funding level - if the funding is reduced they'll make accommodations.
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
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187.
 
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship
Oct 1, 2015, 18:12
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship Oct 1, 2015, 18:12
Oct 1, 2015, 18:12
 
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 10:40:
At the moment CIG has around 250 staff - even if you assume an average salary of $80,000 (the industry average) that's only $1.7m a month. It also has around 100 contractors, who will be paid a fraction of that (even if you assume $50,000 that's $0.4m).

Why do you think contractors will only be paid a fraction of that? Your totally wrong. If you where right they would do the whole game with nothing but contractors.

Plus your basic maths is very bad, 100 contractors @ $50,000 is .5 million not .4 - which is wrong anyway due to your numbers being wrong (plus the contractors may not work for the whole year.

Also you say they scale down if the money slows - if they do, the amount of content slows or the level of 'fidelity' lessen - otherwise they would have never scaled up.

Scaling down would put them in a death spiral and Chris Roberts knows that which is why he is trying to scale up (but not in the US, because I think he is using tax credits in UK and Germany)

Also the $90 million has had to have tax paid on it so is not $90 million any more.

Just my thoughts.
186.
 
Re: The End is Near for SC and CIG scam
Oct 1, 2015, 17:59
Re: The End is Near for SC and CIG scam Oct 1, 2015, 17:59
Oct 1, 2015, 17:59
 
Blue wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 17:37:
RedEye9 wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 17:32:
escapistmagazine.com articles view video-games features 14715-CIG-Employees-Talk-Star-Citizen-and-the-State-of-the-Company

for every space put a / , I have not figured out the wizardry for posting long urls unless it's like this http://bit.ly/1JGDSxA

Behold my wizardry!

You've heard of Gandalf the Gray and Radagast the Brown.

Behold! Heaslip the Blue!

"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." Isaac Asimov
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185.
 
Re: The End is Near for SC and CIG scam
Oct 1, 2015, 17:41
Kxmode
 
Re: The End is Near for SC and CIG scam Oct 1, 2015, 17:41
Oct 1, 2015, 17:41
 Kxmode
 
Blue wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 17:37:
Behold my wizardry!

woah
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
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184.
 
Re: The End is Near for SC and CIG scam
Oct 1, 2015, 17:40
Kxmode
 
Re: The End is Near for SC and CIG scam Oct 1, 2015, 17:40
Oct 1, 2015, 17:40
 Kxmode
 
RedEye9 wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 17:32:
for every space put a / , I have not figured out the wizardry for posting long urls unless it's like this http://bit.ly/1JGDSxA

I can help. The template is: [url=Your HTTP Link]Link Name[/url]
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
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183.
 
Re: The End is Near for SC and CIG scam
Oct 1, 2015, 17:37
Re: The End is Near for SC and CIG scam Oct 1, 2015, 17:37
Oct 1, 2015, 17:37
 
RedEye9 wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 17:32:
escapistmagazine.com articles view video-games features 14715-CIG-Employees-Talk-Star-Citizen-and-the-State-of-the-Company

for every space put a / , I have not figured out the wizardry for posting long urls unless it's like this http://bit.ly/1JGDSxA

Behold my wizardry!
Stephen "Blue" Heaslip
Blue's News Publisher, Editor-in-Chief, El Presidente for Life
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182.
 
The End is Near for SC and CIG scam
Oct 1, 2015, 17:32
The End is Near for SC and CIG scam Oct 1, 2015, 17:32
Oct 1, 2015, 17:32
 
Star Citizen Employees Speak Out on Project Woes - Update

Lizzy Finnegan | 1 October 2015 11:00 am

If you have not read the escapist article, it's a blast.
"Chris Roberts thinks he's George Lucas. He thinks he's a genius," CS2 asserted. "He's a fraud, pure and simple. If he was just a salesman, or he worked in marketing, or he was answering to a producer, he would do well. But the emperor wears no clothes. Anybody who has worked with him will tell you the same thing. The difference is that lots of people have a dream, but only some can communicate it. I don't think he's sinister, or a bad person. He's Donald Trump. He thinks that if he wants to do something, he can. Because he's Chris Roberts."

escapistmagazine.com articles view video-games features 14715-CIG-Employees-Talk-Star-Citizen-and-the-State-of-the-Company

for every space put a / , I have not figured out the wizardry for posting long urls unless it's like this http://bit.ly/1JGDSxA
“The time has come for us to move beyond seeing public health as the ax in the display case, where the sign says IN CASE OF EMERGENCY, BREAK GLASS.”
Pandemics don’t end because the economy is suffering and we want them to.
Avatar 58135
181.
 
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship
Oct 1, 2015, 17:22
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship Oct 1, 2015, 17:22
Oct 1, 2015, 17:22
 
Still don't get bluesnews. They trash Dsmart until his hatred for a project aligns with theirs. Then he's a "respected developer of games". I respect theyarecomingforyou holding the line...but it's silly. Zero-sum game. They are criticizing a pre-alpha game and vomiting everywhere. Boo! It's taking too long to make!

Starcraft 2 took ages to make, and they divided it into 3 episodes. The story was shit, they spent all their time on polish...which means multiplayer balance.

If fallout 4 publishes a weekly journal about how their production got fucked, you all would go insane. The double edged sword of crowd sourcing.

At this point, the black knights and white knights need to hate fuck and then go to blissful sleep.

...In my industry it takes us awhile to get going, but when we have a week left with 100 shots to go, we crank them out. By then, the tools are in place and we've iterated a million times. The thought that you think the process is linear is cute.
180.
 
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship
Oct 1, 2015, 16:43
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship Oct 1, 2015, 16:43
Oct 1, 2015, 16:43
 
jdreyer wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 15:14:
@ Theyarecoming, Lurkerlito

We had a good discussion of salary here. Basically, after looking at the industry average salary of $83K, we went with $120K per employee to cover salary, company paid benefits (healthcare, AD&D, 401K, etc. usually ~$15K at this salary), office space, equipment, expenses, utilities, promotion, etc. etc. For 250 employees, that's $3M per month. So, they've spent appr $27M this year, while bringing in (as of today) $21,315,808. That's not too bad. The thing is, they've got to keep spending $3M for several more years, and funding is only going to drop off going forward.
That sounds reasonable. It doesn't matter that they're spending more than they're taking in because they raised so much early on when their expenditure was low. I'd expect funding to increase substantially when Squadron 42 is released, which should be some time next year. Also, all that money has been raised via the Kickstarter and their own website - it will increase substantially when the game is inevitably added to Steam, presumably under the Early Access programme.

I'm sure CIG will scale the number of employees to match funding. That's just standard business practice and we know that CIG frequently terminates underperforming staff, so it's being run as a proper business. When CIG starts delivering content I'm sure funding will increase, as that's been the pattern so far. The first Squadron 42 footage is going to be released this month, which is a major milestone for the project. Showing a top-tier Hollywood cast will certainly increase the attention it receives - just look at what Kevin Spacey did for Call Of Duty.

Drayth wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 16:20:
Base price is actually $350, and yeah I didn't like the way this was reported either. Even $350 is a lot of money thrown to the wind, but the article reads like $900 is what this ship is set at.
Exactly. The $900 package includes the ship and all modules, which you can't use at the same time. That said, given the price is so extreme in comparison to the industry average I don't really fault Blue.

Murder She Wrote wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 16:22:
dsmart wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 13:13:
And the point of the comparison is without merit.

Just because the comparison embarrasses you doesn't mean its without merit. Perhaps you should worry about putting work into your own products and let other creators worry about their own projects. If you spent as much time creating your games as you did waging war on the internet the end result might be better for yourself and the few customers you've ever had.
Even if he had the same budget and same development period he couldn't even come close to what Chris Roberts is doing.
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
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179.
 
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship
Oct 1, 2015, 16:38
Zor
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship Oct 1, 2015, 16:38
Oct 1, 2015, 16:38
Zor
 
Drayth wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 16:20:
Base price is actually $350, and yeah I didn't like the way this was reported either. Even $350 is a lot of money thrown to the wind, but the article reads like $900 is what this ship is set at.
Exactly. I wasn't trying to speak to the merit of the price, just the way the news was reported and the lack of full disclosure just to suit the narrative of making fun of Star Citizen and it's backers yet again.
Avatar 404
178.
 
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship
Oct 1, 2015, 16:22
Re: Star Citizen's $900 Ship Oct 1, 2015, 16:22
Oct 1, 2015, 16:22
 
dsmart wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 13:13:
And the point of the comparison is without merit.

Just because the comparison embarrasses you doesn't mean its without merit. Perhaps you should worry about putting work into your own products and let other creators worry about their own projects. If you spent as much time creating your games as you did waging war on the internet the end result might be better for yourself and the few customers you've ever had.

But who am I kidding? This is what you really want - the attention. It's always what the trolls want.
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