Fallout 4 Progression Details

A new article on Bethesda.net outlines how character progression will work in Fallout 4. They offer a special S.P.E.C.I.A.L. chart, and a pretty detailed rundown on how the system will play out in the next installment in the RPG series. Here's a bit:
What’s important is that each of these Perks is actually a mini Perk tree*, with multiple ranks that also do new things. Gun Fu above allows even more damage the more targets you select, increasing to instant Critical Shots. Gunslinger has ranks that up the range of pistols, add a chance to disarm enemies, and even instant limb crippling shots.

These additional ranks do require your character to be a higher level. This allows us to make some powerful Perk ranks that reward your investment in a certain SPECIAL as well as that individual Perk. It also allows us to fold Perks we liked from previous games into Perk ranks in this new system. For example, the Fallout 3 perk Paralyzing Palm (paralyze enemies through hand-to-hand), now becomes the Rank 5 Perk for Iron Fist. But you need to have chosen the previous 4 ranks of Iron Fist and be level 46. We also pushed old Perks to do new things at higher ranks. Strong Back doesn’t just up the amount you can carry; higher ranks of it allow you to fast-travel while encumbered or even run while encumbered at the cost of Action Points.
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1.
 
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details
Sep 24, 2015, 22:25
1.
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details Sep 24, 2015, 22:25
Sep 24, 2015, 22:25
 
Entertaining if nothing else.
2.
 
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details
Sep 24, 2015, 22:52
2.
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details Sep 24, 2015, 22:52
Sep 24, 2015, 22:52
 
Finally some useful information. If every perk rank offers something unique (as opposed to +5% of whatever the previous rank held), this could be sufficiently compelling.
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3.
 
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details
Sep 24, 2015, 22:57
3.
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details Sep 24, 2015, 22:57
Sep 24, 2015, 22:57
 
I don't mind that they killed skills, tbh. Skills were so necessary in FO3 that making a character without at least Int 9 was deliberately gimping yourself, and then a ton of perks were just "+5% to this and that skill" which was pointless, since it was far better to just put a perk into buying an extra SPECIAL point. It made perks feel underwhelming in most cases, imo.

This seems like a much better system.
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4.
 
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details
Sep 24, 2015, 23:02
4.
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details Sep 24, 2015, 23:02
Sep 24, 2015, 23:02
 
"Strong Back" is always up there as an early pick since I grab so much of the stuff that's lying around just begging for me to take it. Especially on the first play through since you have no idea what is important or not until much later on.
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5.
 
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details
Sep 24, 2015, 23:05
5.
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details Sep 24, 2015, 23:05
Sep 24, 2015, 23:05
 
At first, I was a bit mad that they removed skills, or simplified things even further, but the more I learn about it, the more I'm OK with it. I just hope it's not all just +5% gun damage... I hope it still supports proper customization and specialization and forces you to make tough choices. It was a bit weird that your SPECIAL stats would affect your skills. And they'd have to add dialogue options for skills, but also for stats, which was weird too. Maybe with this more focused system, they can improve the ways your stats affect the world... But most of all, this is Bethesda, so I guess I gotta trust them.
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6.
 
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details
Sep 25, 2015, 02:18
6.
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details Sep 25, 2015, 02:18
Sep 25, 2015, 02:18
 
I for one say, fuck this. They dumbed it down so that you don't have to think about anything other than the starting stats you choose. The Fallout2 system was best, there was no reason not to leave it in.

I want 95% to hit in the crotch, with my Bozaar motherfucker!
I have a nifty blue line!
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7.
 
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details
Sep 25, 2015, 04:34
7.
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details Sep 25, 2015, 04:34
Sep 25, 2015, 04:34
 
Creston wrote on Sep 24, 2015, 22:57:
I don't mind that they killed skills, tbh. Skills were so necessary in FO3 that making a character without at least Int 9 was deliberately gimping yourself, and then a ton of perks were just "+5% to this and that skill" which was pointless, since it was far better to just put a perk into buying an extra SPECIAL point. It made perks feel underwhelming in most cases, imo.

This seems like a much better system.

Fallout 3 was ridiculously unbalanced. Because most of the perks just added to your skills, plus the bobble head's +10 and the abundance of skill books, you didn't need high INT to be able to max every skill. They had to patch the game because it was possible to max out your skills before hitting the level cap, which caused the game to become stuck on the level up screen because you can't close it until you spend all of the skill points. The Broken Steel DLC raising the level cap made it even easier to max every skill.

Fallout NV was much better balanced. It wasn't possible to max every skill, at least until the DLC raised the level cap.

I'm not sold on this perk system until I see more. How is this going to effect combat skills? Is every character going to start out proficient in every type of weapon? The few perks I saw regarding weapons was the gun nut, which the description says gives you the ability to use higher tier weapon mods and one that increased criticals.
"The only way anyone can live in peace is if they're prepared to forgive." - The Doctor
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8.
 
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details
Sep 25, 2015, 09:54
8.
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details Sep 25, 2015, 09:54
Sep 25, 2015, 09:54
 
From the little I understand about this - apparently in the various special trees, there are different perks for gun types. I don't know where it would be, so for instance, there is separate perk trees for "bolt action rifle" or "pistol" in Agility or Strength or whereever they have most of the guns. In a lot of ways its very much like Skyrim's Star Tree, where you wanted more damage or some perk thing for Archery, you had to spend points in that. Its a lot of visual pazaz, but from my general observations it seems kind of unbalanced with 0 level cap - where you can simply have ALL of skills/perks in every tree with enough grinding.

"Levelling is experience point (XP) based like Fallout 3, not skill-based like Skyrim. But levelling speed is closer to Skyrim, and not as slow as Fallout 3." (source) - In other words leveling is presumably much easier. They then go on to claim, "Fallout 4 has no level cap, and we’ve balanced the game to keep the content and challenge going for higher levels."

Anyways, I don't really have much nice things to say about FO4. Except, I will admit one thing, the Gunplay actually looks way better than FO3 or NV. It no longer looks stiff and utterly atrocious, but I found out they actually got help in-house from ID Software giving them tips on how to actual "FPS" with Gunz. Which is why it looks like a Fallout version of RAGE. For a shooty-shooty Fallout game, I may look into it 2-3 years from now when its 5 bucks.

If this were reddit or youtube, I'm sure I would be downvoted into Oblivion for not liking FO4 that much. *Shrug* I got burned out though from pre-ordering FO3 back in 2008 and then Skyrim, so my excitement for Beth games has diminished considerably.

This comment was edited on Sep 25, 2015, 10:18.
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9.
 
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details
Sep 25, 2015, 10:09
9.
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details Sep 25, 2015, 10:09
Sep 25, 2015, 10:09
 
Task wrote on Sep 25, 2015, 09:54:
From the little I understand about this - apparently in the various special trees, there are different perks for gun types. I don't know where it would be, so for instance, there is separate perk trees for "bolt action rifle" or "pistol" in Agility or Strength or whereever they have most of the guns. In a lot of ways its very much like Skyrim's Star Tree, where you wanted more damage or some perk thing for Archery, you had to spend points in that. Its a lot of visual pazaz, but from my general observations it seems kind of unbalanced with 0 level cap - where you can simply have ALL of skills/perks in every tree with enough grinding.

"Levelling is experience point (XP) based like Fallout 3, not skill-based like Skyrim. But levelling speed is closer to Skyrim, and not as slow as Fallout 3." (source) - In other words leveling is presumably much easier. They then go on to claim, "Fallout 4 has no level cap, and we’ve balanced the game to keep the content and challenge going for higher levels."

Anyways, I don't really much nice things to say about FO4. Except, I will admit one thing, the Gunplay actually looks way better than FO3 or NV. It no longer looks stiff and utterly atrocious, but I found out they actually got help in-house from ID Software giving them tips on how to actual "FPS" with Gunz. Which is why it looks like a Fallout version of RAGE. For a shooty-shooty Fallout game, I may look into it 2-3 years from now when its 5 bucks.

If this were reddit or youtube, I'm sure I would be downvoted into Oblivion for not liking FO4 that much. *Shrug*

I think Blue's is probably the place on the internet with the most FO4 hate. You'll be ok. I think you have to be insane to hate on Bethesda's games. Maybe you want more Call of Duty?

You can't get all perks at level 0, there's level caps to everything and also some perks require other perks.
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10.
 
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details
Sep 25, 2015, 10:30
10.
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details Sep 25, 2015, 10:30
Sep 25, 2015, 10:30
 
ItBurn wrote on Sep 25, 2015, 10:09:

I think Blue's is probably the place on the internet with the most FO4 hate. You'll be ok. I think you have to be insane to hate on Bethesda's games. Maybe you want more Call of Duty?

You can't get all perks at level 0, there's level caps to everything and also some perks require other perks.

Well I've toned down my attitude some for games I don't like ;). My ranting on Thief 4 was a bit much on Blues.

Anyways, what I'd like to see more for FPS Fallout is a Hybrid that I know wont happen: The gunplay of FO4/or 'X' FPS game, with the RPG complexity of FO1 Original, fantastic writing like Witcher 3, and a Top-Down optional switch button for Command/Control of Companions for strategic situations (DA:Origins). Maybe in another 20 years.

I'm sure FO4 will do fine for Bethesda and sell plenty with their main fanbase.
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11.
 
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details
Sep 25, 2015, 11:00
Verno
 
11.
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details Sep 25, 2015, 11:00
Sep 25, 2015, 11:00
 Verno
 
Task wrote on Sep 25, 2015, 09:54:
If this were reddit or youtube, I'm sure I would be downvoted into Oblivion for not liking FO4 that much. *Shrug* I got burned out though from pre-ordering FO3 back in 2008 and then Skyrim, so my excitement for Beth games has diminished considerably.

Nah the only people I see downvoted at reddit are trolls. I post contrary opinions there all the time, for the most part as long as you write well or at least support your points you'll have no issues.

Anyways I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt here and I like seeing companies try new things. I was never that attached to the skill system and balance stuff from FO3.
Playing: Subnautica Below Zero, Mass Effect Legendary, Resident Evil The Village
Watching: The Banishing, Bad Banks, Ted Lasso
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12.
 
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details
Sep 25, 2015, 12:57
Red
12.
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details Sep 25, 2015, 12:57
Sep 25, 2015, 12:57
Red
 
As a die-hard fan of 1 and 2, and someone who enjoyed the gamespy pvp in Tactics, I did not have a negative reaction to reading about this new system. And I'm pretty accustomed to having negative initial reactions to things. So I'm still hopeful I'll enjoy this new Fallout.

Meaningful decisions in leveling is a key thing for me. And they claim that they tried to balance all the perks so you're making those pro-con decisions. I don't know if they're solid enough designers to make that a reality, but at least they recognize that's important.

The "no level cap" would only become a problem if playing through all the main content levels you so high that you can meaningfully acquire most of the perks. But with "270" available perks, it really depends on what level I can expect to reach without senseless grinding. If it's like 50 or 70, that's not so bad from the perspective of actually designing my character vs just having everything (which would be totally boring).
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13.
 
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details
Sep 25, 2015, 16:08
13.
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details Sep 25, 2015, 16:08
Sep 25, 2015, 16:08
 
i mean, its GTA Fallout.. so the whole premise is different.. it doesnt look like there will be much RPG-type quest/decisions/stories, other than the vast cornucopia of "lite" type shit.. so whats the point in having a RPG-type character system?
14.
 
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details
Sep 26, 2015, 05:35
14.
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details Sep 26, 2015, 05:35
Sep 26, 2015, 05:35
 
Task wrote on Sep 25, 2015, 09:54:
From the little I understand about this - apparently in the various special trees, there are different perks for gun types. I don't know where it would be, so for instance, there is separate perk trees for "bolt action rifle" or "pistol" in Agility or Strength or whereever they have most of the guns. In a lot of ways its very much like Skyrim's Star Tree, where you wanted more damage or some perk thing for Archery, you had to spend points in that. Its a lot of visual pazaz, but from my general observations it seems kind of unbalanced with 0 level cap - where you can simply have ALL of skills/perks in every tree with enough grinding.

"Levelling is experience point (XP) based like Fallout 3, not skill-based like Skyrim. But levelling speed is closer to Skyrim, and not as slow as Fallout 3." (source) - In other words leveling is presumably much easier. They then go on to claim, "Fallout 4 has no level cap, and we’ve balanced the game to keep the content and challenge going for higher levels."

Anyways, I don't really have much nice things to say about FO4. Except, I will admit one thing, the Gunplay actually looks way better than FO3 or NV. It no longer looks stiff and utterly atrocious, but I found out they actually got help in-house from ID Software giving them tips on how to actual "FPS" with Gunz. Which is why it looks like a Fallout version of RAGE. For a shooty-shooty Fallout game, I may look into it 2-3 years from now when its 5 bucks.

If this were reddit or youtube, I'm sure I would be downvoted into Oblivion for not liking FO4 that much. *Shrug* I got burned out though from pre-ordering FO3 back in 2008 and then Skyrim, so my excitement for Beth games has diminished considerably.

I really hated Skyrim's level and perk system. At least they're keeping it XP based for FO4. I'm not liking the idea of no level cap, but there's probably going to be a point where the time between level ups will get so far apart you might as well plan on getting the perks you want by then. Once you've completed every quest, the only way to gain XP will be killing things. Although, with the settlement building mechanic, I'm willing to bet that there will be some kind of way to farm easy, infinite XP.

Even though Fallout 3 and NV are in first person, they're still RPGs. You have to keep in mind that when you aim at something and pull the trigger, the game isn't relying on your skill as the player to make the shot, it's your character's skills that determine if you hit or not. People going into those games expecting a COD style FPS experience were disappointed. Now combat looks more FPS like, I just hope they don't remove the RPG part of it.

The big question that remains is, how is the writing going to be? Is it going to be linear and stupid like FO3, or did they learn something from Obsidian? We already know there are going to be multiple factions, but there were two factions in FO3, you just didn't get the choice in which one you wanted to side with. Are the BOS going to be like the real BOS or FO3's knight's in shining power armor BOS?

The last I heard, the lead writer for FO3 is also in charge of FO4, so my money is on the story being shit.
"The only way anyone can live in peace is if they're prepared to forgive." - The Doctor
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15.
 
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details
Sep 26, 2015, 05:47
15.
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details Sep 26, 2015, 05:47
Sep 26, 2015, 05:47
 
Even though Fallout 3 and NV are in first person, they're still RPGs. You have to keep in mind that when you aim at something and pull the trigger, the game isn't relying on your skill as the player to make the shot, it's your character's skills that determine if you hit or not. People going into those games expecting a COD style FPS experience were disappointed. Now combat looks more FPS like, I just hope they don't remove the RPG part of it.

Pretty sure they have removed stat-based accuracy from guns. Though, they removed most of it in FO3 as well and instead focused primarily on scaling damage. In FNV, using iron sights basically gave you 100% accuracy and the game didn't suffer for it at all.

I'm actually okay with not having chance-to-hit in this kind of game. If it's real-time, first-person and requires aiming, chance-to-hit just adds an extra layer of annoyance. There was nothing less fun than seeing arrows pass right through enemies in Morrowind because of RNG. There's a reason why chance-to-hit was removed in Oblivion, Skyrim, DX:HR, etc. Hell, I'd argue that chance-to-hit is annoying in turn-based games too. Nothing quite as satisfying as getting screwed because your character missed an attack with 95% chance to hit.

The big question that remains is, how is the writing going to be? Is it going to be linear and stupid like FO3, or did they learn something from Obsidian? We already know there are going to be multiple factions, but there were two factions in FO3, you just didn't get the choice in which one you wanted to side with. Are the BOS going to be like the real BOS or FO3's knight's in shining power armor BOS?

Pretty sure the BoS are still the knights in shining armor that they were in FO3. Bethesda's writers aren't very good at moral ambiguity. If you go into FO4 (or any Bethesda RPG) expecting good writing, you'll be disappointed.
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16.
 
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details
Sep 26, 2015, 08:40
16.
Re: Fallout 4 Progression Details Sep 26, 2015, 08:40
Sep 26, 2015, 08:40
 
It's a vanilla talent system. You have skill trees tied to a SPECIAL and each perk has ranks... Nuff said. They took way too long and used too many words to explain that simple fact.
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