Cpmartins wrote on Aug 15, 2015, 19:17:

Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 23:29:

Despoiler wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 12:15:

Verno wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 11:59:

KilrathiAce wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 10:35:
Can entire combat be modified so that it doesnt suck?

The combat could surely be improved but why does it suck?

It's console combat.

Button mashing doesn't work on Witcher 3, it's more likely to leave you dead just like in the second one.

The combats gets too easy when you outlevel the content by a significant margin. I remember doing quests 3 levels above my own and I had to use every trick in the witcher book to stay alive.

I particularly remember doing one where I had to kill 3 drowners that were 5 levels above me. The fight took 10 minutes, and at the end I was potionless, bleed almost to death, my good crossbow bolts all gone and feeling pretty great that I did it.

Weird. I never use potions, and I've been using the starter bolts the whole game, seeing no real reason to use any of the upgraded ones you find, and when I first started out, I remember tackling a Witcher contract at like level 9, and the contract was for level 19 or 20. There were several huge arachas around a cave, and I remember my attacks were doing almost no damage, but I was using the hell out of quen and igni, and after what seemed like more than an hour, I was able to finally take them down. No potions used, just the occasional food consumption. Now that was a rewarding battle.

Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 23:29:

Despoiler wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 12:15:

Verno wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 11:59:

KilrathiAce wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 10:35:
Can entire combat be modified so that it doesnt suck?

The combat could surely be improved but why does it suck?

It's console combat.

Button mashing doesn't work on Witcher 3, it's more likely to leave you dead just like in the second one.

The combats gets too easy when you outlevel the content by a significant margin. I remember doing quests 3 levels above my own and I had to use every trick in the witcher book to stay alive.

I particularly remember doing one where I had to kill 3 drowners that were 5 levels above me. The fight took 10 minutes, and at the end I was potionless, bleed almost to death, my good crossbow bolts all gone and feeling pretty great that I did it.

CJ_Parker wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 13:52:

Eeeeeeexactacaly. It might also have to do with TESO. Maybe Beth does indeed hope that people with an itch for TES will hop on TESO sooner or later.

I picked it up for 11 bucks and am having almost zero fun in it. Not sure what's missing from it compared to, say, any TES game but there's a vital element missing.

Despoiler wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 12:15:

Verno wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 11:59:

KilrathiAce wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 10:35:
Can entire combat be modified so that it doesnt suck?

The combat could surely be improved but why does it suck?

It's console combat.

Button mashing doesn't work on Witcher 3, it's more likely to leave you dead just like in the second one.

Except TW3 uses bloody Speedtree, which should put it on par with Oblivion in terms of graphics. As it stands the plants look very nice from distance but close up it's another story.
It's true that the Witcher 2 was released the same year as Skyrim.
Yet if they wanted to make the world bigger they could have. That's a design decision not a technical limitation. Let's not forget that Morrowind and the imperial province landmass exist in the Skyrim map.
Anyway my point wasn't really about technical achievements but how each studio managed to innovate between each game.
You might say that the elder scrolls have npcs with 24 hour routines and every piece of cutlery that can be picked up and so it's like mixing oranges and apples. My two bits of opinion here is that the Polish studio manages to be more relevant.

I don't think Elder scrolls have small cities, few inhabitants and outdoors/ indoors loading because the games are last gen. I am ready to bet Fallout will have that as well. Of course in a post apocalyptic setting they can do without a lot of npcs and big cities. As regards indoors transitions that's clearly how Bethesda has chosen to design their levels. Ir's been like that for 15 years or so. Even the first two episodes had that. They've been repeating the same formula over and over again and applying it to the Fallout licence. Quite frankly I am getting bored of the same thing every time. Jee even their mmo is built the same way. Do the designers think the audience like that? I feel concerned about this formula. To be honest I am kinda feeling like I already know what to expect from their new Fallout. Having another studio develop New Vegas was their best decision, wish they kept on with that. Not really interested in Fallout 3 with better graphics.

Tipsy McStagger wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 13:42:
Novigrad blew me away.

Couldn't believe they actually pulled off a realistic looking city with hundreds of people in the street (maximum npc population on my rig.)

Seriously, there's no excuse for future games not to have that level of detail.

We're looking at you Ubisoft! Learn 2 optimize!

CJ_Parker wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 13:52:
...
Whatever it may be, TW3 certainly has zilch to do with it. What silly fanboi blabbering. Skyrim is a 2011 old gen game. TW3 is a 2015 current gen game. Four years and one full console gen difference. Any comparison is therefore beyond retarded to begin with.

Yes, not much of a comparison, I'm afraid...what made Skyrim gorgeous were the mods, without which it's a poor-looking game, indeed. I've still got Skyrim + mods installed and still fire it up every so often, but TW3 as released w/o mods is far superior. Going to be a challenge for modders to improve--which will be interesting to watch...;)

ForgedReality wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 12:08:
Yeah, I don't get the vitriol surrounding the combat. I think it's fine. I feel like most people saying it sucks are just jumping on the fucking dipshit bandwagon that clueless Mack from Worth-A-Buy started.

Or maybe the combat really is a weak point in the game? It feels mushy, imprecise, and lacks challenge. If I had played it after Skyrim came out, it would have felt...decent. But after having played Dark Souls, Bloodborne, and SoMordor.....the combat in TW3 is very disappointing.

CJ_Parker wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 13:52:
Eeeeeeexactacaly. It might also have to do with TESO. Maybe Beth does indeed hope that people with an itch for TES will hop on TESO sooner or later.

I doubt it. Todd Howard's studio isn't doing anything with TESO, so if that was their plan then said plan would leave an entire studio doing nothing.

I have a bad feeling because Todd Howard specifically said "very long time". That doesn't sound like their usual four/five years at all but much longer.

Well, we've jumped another console generation, so odds are pretty good that it'll tack on another 1 or 2 years to the development time. Fallout 4 has already been in development for 7 years or so now, right? As the games get bigger and stuffed with more content, and the size of their studio remains the same, time between releases is clearly going to increase. Sadly.

Look at how Blizz has not released Warcraft 4 until today even though it would instantly sell millions. Is Beth following in their footsteps with TES and delaying any SP TES indefinitely?

Nah. Apples and oranges.

It could also be technical reasons. Maybe FO4 is the last game they want do on the Creation engine. Writing a new more advanced engine from scratch that has the same capabilities especially with regard to modding has got to be a pretty epic undertaking.

Which is what I think might be the biggest hurdle. But to be honest, I thought it had been the reason behind FO4's long delay, and it doesn't appear to be.

Skellige was where you could tell development got rushed, it was just a lot of repetitive rubbish. The rest of the game is so well done that I just didn't care and at least the main quest stuff there was cool.

Creston wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 13:34:
Please. Skyrim sold 30+ million copies. The reason the next Elder Scrolls is a long way off is because all their actual world builders/scripters/animators etc are all working on Fallout 4 and will then work on DLC. Not until after FO4 has been released will people gradually move over to ES6. This has been their MO for over a decade. Witcher 3 has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Eeeeeeexactacaly. It might also have to do with TESO. Maybe Beth does indeed hope that people with an itch for TES will hop on TESO sooner or later.

I have a bad feeling because Todd Howard specifically said "very long time". That doesn't sound like their usual four/five years at all but much longer.

Look at how Blizz has not released Warcraft 4 until today even though it would instantly sell millions. Is Beth following in their footsteps with TES and delaying any SP TES indefinitely?

It could also be technical reasons. Maybe FO4 is the last game they want do on the Creation engine. Writing a new more advanced engine from scratch that has the same capabilities especially with regard to modding has got to be a pretty epic undertaking.

Whatever it may be, TW3 certainly has zilch to do with it. What silly fanboi blabbering. Skyrim is a 2011 old gen game. TW3 is a 2015 current gen game. Four years and one full console gen difference. Any comparison is therefore beyond retarded to begin with.

Novigrad blew me away.

Couldn't believe they actually pulled off a realistic looking city with hundreds of people in the street (maximum npc population on my rig.)

Seriously, there's no excuse for future games not to have that level of detail.

Also, since I love Viking related content, Skellige was by far the best area of the game but didn't have as great of side quests as were required.

I did like *SPOILER HIDDEN TEXT* the bare knuckle fighting a troll and a bear. That was pure bad to the bone.

Fion wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 12:22:
The largest city in Skyrim has a population of 85.

The largest city in Skyrim had to run on an Xbox 360/PS3.

The largest city in Witcher 3 has to run on an Xbone/PS4.

Something to keep in mind.

As for looks, eh, Skyrim has a different feel going for it. I think Markath and Riften are very nicely done cities that fit well within the idea of a Viking country. And where stylized beauty is concerned, Novigrad and Oxenfurt are really way way waaaaay too pretty and clean to ever exist in a country that's as miserable and bleak as the Witcher 3 portrays it.

(And I say that as someone who loves Novigrad. It's a ton of fun to just walk around and look at every nook and cranny.)

I think it's one reason why Bethesda recently stated that 'the next elder scrolls is a long ways off'. They know CDPR has so out-done them in every way.

Please. Skyrim sold 30+ million copies. The reason the next Elder Scrolls is a long way off is because all their actual world builders/scripters/animators etc are all working on Fallout 4 and will then work on DLC. Not until after FO4 has been released will people gradually move over to ES6. This has been their MO for over a decade. Witcher 3 has absolutely nothing to do with it.

BitWraith wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 12:22:

Despoiler wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 12:15:

Verno wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 11:59:

KilrathiAce wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 10:35:
Can entire combat be modified so that it doesnt suck?

The combat could surely be improved but why does it suck?

It's console combat.

This statement is predicated on the idea that console combat cannot possibly be good. That idea is false.

Maybe he wanted to say that it's console combat in an otherwise good pc conversion.

I hope someone will figure out a way to make all Gwent players:

A) smarter
B) available straight from the start. I got very annoyed several times where I had to do three or four quests before I'd finally unlock a single gwent player.

Also, Gwent is pure P2W! CDPR SUXX0RS!!!

Agreed, pretty weak argument. The hate for Witcher 3 on Blues seems to be pretty pathetic IMO.

Fion wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 12:43:

Verno wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 12:13:
I outleveled the main quest for a little while but eventually caught up after some events in Novigrad. The only time I ever got too far ahead was when I started filling out my Gwent deck, all of that back and forth has you accruing XP doing various things.

Anyways I hope the mod does come out regardless, it seems to be a common complaint.

In my first play through I did everything I could that was level appropriate. If I was traveling between two areas, instead of using a waypoint I'd walk/ride it and do the PoI's in between. This so over-leveled me that by the time I was finished with the quests in Novigrad and ready to move onto the Level 16 'Destination: Skellige' I was level 28. That was normal mode.

I've since started a second play-through at the 2nd highest difficulty with the intent to ONLY do the main quests in hopes of not over-leveling (and a few side-stuff if I needed the levels). I just finished all the Red Barron/Witches quests and without having touched any side-content outside of the White Orchard. I'm not moving on to Pires of Novigrad (a level 10 quest) and despite all the effort to only do main quests, Geralt is level 16.

Fair enough, I didn't as much side content since I was wanting to save some for a second play through eventually. To your second comment, are you doing POI/etc on the way through main quest stuff? That seems...off somehow to be 6 levels up only doing main quest events but I haven't done the math yet on quest reward XP vs requirements.

Verno wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 12:13:
I outleveled the main quest for a little while but eventually caught up after some events in Novigrad. The only time I ever got too far ahead was when I started filling out my Gwent deck, all of that back and forth has you accruing XP doing various things.

Anyways I hope the mod does come out regardless, it seems to be a common complaint.

In my first play through I did everything I could that was level appropriate. If I was traveling between two areas, instead of using a waypoint I'd walk/ride it and do the PoI's in between. This so over-leveled me that by the time I was finished with the quests in Novigrad and ready to move onto the Level 16 'Destination: Skellige' I was level 28. That was normal mode.

I've since started a second play-through at the 2nd highest difficulty with the intent to ONLY do the main quests in hopes of not over-leveling (and a few side-stuff if I needed the levels). I just finished all the Red Barron/Witches quests and without having touched any side-content outside of the White Orchard. I'm not moving on to Pires of Novigrad (a level 10 quest) and despite all the effort to only do main quests, Geralt is level 16.

Despoiler wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 12:15:

Verno wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 11:59:

KilrathiAce wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 10:35:
Can entire combat be modified so that it doesnt suck?

The combat could surely be improved but why does it suck?

It's console combat.

This statement is predicated on the idea that console combat cannot possibly be good. That idea is false.

Spektr wrote on Aug 14, 2015, 11:16:

Basically for a first time with an open world game the studio nailed it right away. As opposed to the Elder scrolls where each new episode is a disappointment leaving a bitter "they could have done better" aftertaste.
One big difference, I don't know if that's related to CDProjekt being European but this studio knows what a medieval city looks like. Also they know what a realistic landscape looks like, but since there are landscapes in the US they have no excuse.
No offence but the cities in the elder scroll games have been ridiculously small since Morrowind. This reached a certain level in ESO where I calculated one area's major city didn't have any habitation building in them.
Also the main map in Witcher3 is more than three times larger than the one in Skyrim. Which didn't prevent them from implementing seamless indoors/outdoors transitions in their maps.
ok maybe their landscapes are more desolate but that's exactly what makes them realistic.
But that's the technical side of thing. The quests are muuuch better.
Bethesda take heed, and wake up.

Agree et al. I think it must be the fact that CDPR is in Europe so they know what a medieval city looks like, especially when compared to Elder Scroll cities that look like fantasy paintings in that they are highly stylized but utterly unrealistic. I mean really? The largest city in Skyrim has a population of 85. Sure you can talk and interact and have a conversation with each one of them but having thousands of people crowding Novigrad is much more realistic. Even if only 5% of them have any dialog trees.

I think it's one reason why Bethesda recently stated that 'the next elder scrolls is a long ways off'. They know CDPR has so out-done them in every way.

Another thing that blows my mind is just how fast the game loads. Yea the 'recap videos' are a pain in the ass. Hoping to see a mod soon that removes them once you've seen them (were as the current mod removes em no matter what). But with an SSD the central map, 3x the sideof skyrim and probably a twice that of GTA V's world. The game loads up in about 15 seconds at the most, and often under 5 when waypointing-about. Compare this to GTA V which for me takes 30-40 seconds just to load into the game on an SSD. I cant imagine how slow it is to load on consoles.

This comment was edited on Aug 14, 2015, 12:46.