@LurkerLito - I sincerely hope other people read it and see what a lie Star Citizen is. If you put your money into the project you will not get it back no matter how reasonable your refund claim is.

The fact that they weren't even willing to give it back to me means they are burning through cash too fast and aren't even close to having a completed game. So my money is effectively held hostage by a evil businessman. I'm hoping the FTC swoops in an saves myself and others so that we can just get our money back.

I hate to say it kxmode but you are screwed like all the backers. I personally found the email exchange quite a big eye opener. Here is the thing that really caught my attention:

So, speaking to you as a backer this was only ever the scenario assuming that the stretch goals stopped at that point. The idea was that as more goals were met, the more the game could grow and expand into something bigger and better. Right from the get go Chris mentioned in his pitch. "I don't want to build just a game, I want to build a universe"

So according to CIG support, the backers who bought more spaceships are the cause of the current situation. If they had only just stopped sending them money they would have actually finished the game to the specifications and on time.

So get that through your heads next time you buy into any kickstarter. If they keep asking for more money for more features after the kickstarter ends DO NOT GIVE THEM ANYMORE!!!!

Some rules for kickstarters really needs to be placed by the FTC. IMHO once the KS ends any adding of more stretch goals for more money should be illegal whether on the kickstarter website or on the website run by the company itself. That is one that absolutely needs to be put in and enforced. Otherwise feature creeping projects like SC will continue to the detriment of backers and possibly kill their usefulness due to mistrust they generate.

feral.fury wrote on Jul 19, 2015, 04:54:
@Kxmode
I'm confused, can you please explain the difference between Microsoft people and real people? Does Microsoft have fake people?
Also can you please explain the difference between Microsoft money and real money? Is real money in USD currency where Microsoft money is xbox points?

I was about to reply to your questions but then looking at your post history I decided I won't. You strike me as a Star Citizen "White Knight".

@Kxmode
I'm confused, can you please explain the difference between Microsoft people and real people? Does Microsoft have fake people?
Also can you please explain the difference between Microsoft money and real money? Is real money in USD currency where Microsoft money is xbox points?

You really gotta stop using that word real, for realz. The sensationalizing doesn't help.

Until now most people have been ethical about the donations they receive on Kickstarter. I believe even Chris Roberts is ethical in that he didn’t start it to defraud people. I believe he's had a history of undisciplined projects that balloon out of budget and Kickstarter (and people starving for a real first-person space game that doesn’t suck) gave him the keys to the candy store.

History repeats itself:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/article_29857 Published 06/12/2000

"In the wake of the collapse of Digital Anvil, co-founder and soon-to-be-former CEO Chris Roberts has spoken about his decision to leave the company he founded just four years ago. As we suspected, the company's troubles were down to "wanting to develop not only hugely ambitious games, but too many hugely ambitious games", leaving the company's finances stretched after four years without a single game being released - the sole title to emerge with the Digital Anvil name on it was actually mostly developed by a small British company."

http://www.wcnews.com/articles/art23.shtml

We ignored, of course, the rumors that he'd been fired by EA because Wing Commander IV had gone over-budget.

When Digital Anvil signed a publishing contract with Microsoft, our jaws dropped -- but only momentarily. This is the best thing that could happen, we were told! Microsoft would provide Digital Anvil with unlimited capital, and they don't care about how long it takes to develop a game! We ignored, of course, the fact that this made absolutely no sense. We were kids, and we didn't realize that the reason Microsoft has lots and lots of money is because they invest it wisely -- not because they throw away randomly.

When Digital Anvil president Martin Davies left, this was the best thing that could happen! Chris Roberts would get more responsibilty! We ignored, of course, the fact that Davies specifically stated that his departure was because the company had lost their original vision.

These are the conditions Chris left the video game industry to pursue a film career. I was so blinded to believe someone like Chris Roberts, well known for his past performance, would not repeat that same performance a second time around. The difference between Microsoft and Backers is if Microsoft backed Digital Anvil for 150 million and the studio closed it wasn't a huge loss. The same cannot be said for the hundred of thousands of real people who gave real money, some in the hundreds and thousands, to fund this project.

Chris was never truthful. He may have wanted to make the game he pitched on Kickstarter, but we'll never know. And even if he said today "I still want to make that game for you Citizens!" I won't believe it.

NKD wrote on Jul 19, 2015, 01:50:
If you've got some LTI ship packages you can offload them (most likely for a profit) there, either yourself, or using a middleman like that Kane guy who advertises there. (I've used him personally because I didn't have time to bump a thread, etc.)

Do you still have to give the middleman guy your account password so he can verify you really own what you want to sell? I don't get why people do that.

Anyway, if you're selling you're always in the better position. Just put the ships on eBay and use PayPal. Only transfer (gift) the ship after full reception of the funds and make sure to withdraw the PayPal money to your bank account immediately. What can go wrong? Right. Nothing.
The buyer bears all the risk here if you would not transfer. But since you're honest and probably have an eBay account in good standing with hopefully 100% positive ratings the buyer has nothing to fear.
The only thing that sucks slightly is eBay's fees but you're paying that middleman clown fees, too (who, by the way, might sell your account password and e-mail address combination to hacker groups for additional profit... no, not to hack into your SC account, of course, but they might try it -or variations of the PW- via brute force on other games and online services so you won't even realize it is related... they're not stupid).
Of course, you could temp change your PW for the middleman but I still would not risk it. You're giving away way too many private details if the guy snoops around your account.

I have personally eBay'ed several LTI ships/packages and had no issues because, as I said, as the seller I call the shots and dictate under which circumstances (full reception of the funds) the transaction takes place. Take screenshots of the gifting process to be on the even safer side. I made about +100% profit on most sales so I about doubled my investment. Sometimes a little less, sometimes more.

Would be nice if you included the dates of the e-mails imho.

I must say, as far as I'm concerned, since that guy has worked at Blizzard he must be right (j/k) and he is going to beat you due to already having your money.

To him, I think you are a dirty heritic

I'm going to go look at some old Bluesnews threads from around when Chris hit $20 million and you where still a fanboi.

Good luck getting your money, I agree with you totally.

Kxmode wrote on Jul 19, 2015, 01:07:
Here's my full communication with CIG requesting a refund. http://pastebin.com/mSM29KZs

14 days, lol. Fucking retards.

http://reddit.com/r/starcitizen_trades

If you've got some LTI ship packages you can offload them (most likely for a profit) there, either yourself, or using a middleman like that Kane guy who advertises there. (I've used him personally because I didn't have time to bump a thread, etc.)

Do it before the bubble bursts. You can always buy the game later if the game somehow miraculously happens, but you won't be able to sell your ships once it becomes clear that they'll never fucking exist.

Kxmode wrote on Jul 19, 2015, 01:07:
Here's my full communication with CIG requesting a refund. http://pastebin.com/mSM29KZs

Well, I'll have a read

Here's my full communication with CIG requesting a refund. http://pastebin.com/mSM29KZs

This comment was edited on Jul 19, 2015, 01:35.

It's OFFICIAL:

BAITNHATEGATE!!!

Julio wrote on Jul 18, 2015, 13:43:

CJ_Parker wrote on Jul 18, 2015, 13:29:
a model where non-backers(!) would be able to download the first episode of Squadron 42 as a free-to-play game

Non-backers will probably get to play this as much as backers. Either it will collapse before release, or die after the first episode. Entertaining either way.

3 hours for $35? Call of Star Citizen?

dubfanatic wrote on Jul 18, 2015, 15:06:
Trump/Smart 2016

I think one of them would only accept Smart/Trump 2016. Or is it SmarTrump?

Trump/Smart 2016

CJ_Parker wrote on Jul 18, 2015, 13:29:
a model where non-backers(!) would be able to download the first episode of Squadron 42 as a free-to-play game

Non-backers will probably get to play this as much as backers. Either it will collapse before release, or die after the first episode. Entertaining either way.

LurkerLito wrote on Jul 18, 2015, 10:29:
It sounds like CIG is suppose to release something in 2 weeks or so they say. It'll be interesting to see what they put out. For some reason I can't stop thinking they are desperate to quiet the distension among the backers and are working in crunch time conditions to get it out as fast as possible.

?

It's no secret that they are hard at work on Star Marine, the FPS module. You can read about the latest weekly status update here.
It seems to me they are just trying to find excuses now to delay until Gamescom so they can get lots of PR when releasing Star Marine at their event.

I more interested about this bit in the article:

These reports range from rapidly dwindling funds left to see the project to completion; to a new report that SQ42 is almost a year away if they don’t reduce the scope, and that it is now going to be an episodic game, in which the first episode (about 3hrs long without cut-scenes) is free, while future episodes are going to be paid DLC.

They absolutely did not mention or even imply the single player portion of the game was episodic requiring payment to get anything past the first episode. If they did even imply that during the KS time I would never have backed it. Episodic means it'll never be finished. I don't think I have ever seen a game that was labeled "episodic" finished.

The episodic release format is unfortunately correct but there is no way that they are going to charge us backers for episodes beyond #1. Squadron 42 is supposed to become a full commercial release, i.e. a $50 to $60 game which will naturally also cover all episodes at that price.
Other plans remain to be seen. The article is probably referring to a model where non-backers(!) would be able to download the first episode of Squadron 42 as a free-to-play game or maybe just the intro to the first episode because Christ Roberts once said that the 1st episode of S42 was supposed to become bigger than many full game releases (at three hours that would be a pretty blatant lie). It is also possible that their plan is a timed three hour trial version.

Whatever it may be... as backers we're getting all episodes for free and if you've been an early backer you're also getting the first expansion/"mission disk" (Behind Enemy Lines) for free, too.

Maybe DS should contract with Gearbox, I heard they need someone for their Duke Nukems and Brother in Arms. DS got smoked, simple as that.

Does he forget that he isn't a backer anymore? They refunded his money......

Bub wrote on Jul 18, 2015, 08:01:
Like many smarter than average people, Mr. Smarts commentary just goes "whoosh" past the smaller minds of your average internet commenter.

Just like the television media, your average person tends to get mesmerized by the spectacle and personality, while loosing sight of the facts that are brought to light.

In my opinion it is time to reign in this wackyness that is crowd funding with a bit of regulation. If not, every huckster out there from tv preachers to diet gurus will be milking this crowd funding bonanza for all it is worth very soon. It is time to require crowdfunding to follow the same kind of rules offering stock for sale comes with.

Don't you mean "Dr. Smart PhD"? Oh right, he doesn't call himself that anymore. Yeah, we're all sure 'Derk' is a real genius alright. Too bad he can't make a good game to save his life however.

Ok everyone clean up time, time to put the toys away. Comeback in three months and see what is new and see if we need to praise them or beat on them some more. This beating has been thorough and complete, resurrected demons from the past, threats of lawsuits, a solid 9 out of 10 effort.