I don't foresee myself playing any fast paced games but I love first person exploration/Adventure games. I want to be immersed in a world and figure out puzzles at my own pace. I've been fine sitting down doing that for decades I'll be fine sitting down with VR until the neural implants start showing up in 2030.

Even though it's not for me and I'll never use it, I do get why did they did the whole thing with the Xbox controller. Not just because it's wireless, but also because it can be used without really having to look at it, which is something that today's VR definitely has to overcome.

That said, I have two DK2's, and the absolute majority of my time playing has been spent playing cockpit stuff. Mainly racing games, but with a touch of Elite Dangerous here and there. The best experiences that can be had right now, IMO, are Euro Truck Simulator 2 and Project Cars. You have a wheel, a stick shift, and pedals, and these are devices that most people can operate without having to look at them.

Honestly, I couldn't believe the video with the chick playing the Xbox One racing game while looking at a virtual screen. Really, what were they thinking? The way the room went so quiet after it played kinda says it all. I'll tell you what they should have done; they should have announced a partnership with SCS software and their upcoming American Truck Simulator, that's what. Compared to their lacklustre response, the crowd would've been positively buzzing.

Outside of being in a cockpit of sorts, I don't think FPS's are going to really work in VR in the immediate future because anything where your avatar is moving but you're not is going to make people sick. Like most who have enjoyed VR for what it delivers already, then, this controller will probably never get a look in.

This comment was edited on Jun 13, 2015, 02:17.

Sepharo wrote on Jun 12, 2015, 22:06:

HorrorScope wrote on Jun 12, 2015, 10:14:

PsychoMoggieBagpuss wrote on Jun 12, 2015, 01:32:
100x this. I have both a DK1 and DK2. Mouse + Keyboard is a pain in the arse when using them as if you take your hands off the keyboard at any time and lose your position then you end up taking the headset off to relocate them.
A controller is a lot easier and the best of current options available. The STEM stuff looks interesting, but it's while off being finished. Obviously haven't tried the Oculus touch peripheral yet.

Your offhand doesn't have to be a keyboard, it could be like a nostromo. Buy I have to assume many can easily put their hand on WASD blindly and I can't believe much anyone looks at their keys while playing. That said, I haven't tried a Rift with a mouse to know for sure, I just wouldn't have a problem with finding buttons to press, it would be the affect of the device, not the finding of the keys.

I don't have a problem finding my keyboard and mouse while using the Rift. But for some of those VR experiences you want to stand up or look around. When you stand up you just feel like a rock keyboardist and when fully turning around you can't use the keyboard and mouse anymore of course, looking over the shoulder is fine though. So a wireless controller would be better in those situations. Unfortunately, as most of us know here first-person games are better with mouse and keyboard than a thumb stick.

Yes, certainly for the full VR effect you need to use new wireless devices.

HorrorScope wrote on Jun 12, 2015, 10:14:

PsychoMoggieBagpuss wrote on Jun 12, 2015, 01:32:
100x this. I have both a DK1 and DK2. Mouse + Keyboard is a pain in the arse when using them as if you take your hands off the keyboard at any time and lose your position then you end up taking the headset off to relocate them.
A controller is a lot easier and the best of current options available. The STEM stuff looks interesting, but it's while off being finished. Obviously haven't tried the Oculus touch peripheral yet.

Your offhand doesn't have to be a keyboard, it could be like a nostromo. Buy I have to assume many can easily put their hand on WASD blindly and I can't believe much anyone looks at their keys while playing. That said, I haven't tried a Rift with a mouse to know for sure, I just wouldn't have a problem with finding buttons to press, it would be the affect of the device, not the finding of the keys.

I don't have a problem finding my keyboard and mouse while using the Rift. But for some of those VR experiences you want to stand up or look around. When you stand up you just feel like a rock keyboardist and when fully turning around you can't use the keyboard and mouse anymore of course, looking over the shoulder is fine though. So a wireless controller would be better in those situations. Unfortunately, as most of us know here first-person games are better with mouse and keyboard than a thumb stick.

saluk wrote on Jun 12, 2015, 14:22:
Turning with the controller doesn't work, but if you have a controller and a swivel chair,

Really, unless their new input system was really ready (which it's not), bundling a controller is the most sensible move. It's not at all surprising. Annoying for those who already have it... you can always sell it.

Swivel Chair, yeah that was good for a laugh!

Sensible move is an option to buy without a controller to me.

Turning with the controller doesn't work, but if you have a controller and a swivel chair, you can turn reasonably well physically and then do all other input with the controller.

Until you get tangled in the wire of course

Really, unless their new input system was really ready (which it's not), bundling a controller is the most sensible move. It's not at all surprising. Annoying for those who already have it... you can always sell it.

The Rift will work natively with Windows 10 to make it easy to set up, jump in, and have an incredible VR gaming experience

The only reason it won't work natively with Windows 7+ is if Microsoft decides not, to try to force people onto 10. Same with DX12.

Hopefully Occulus will deal with it if Microsoft won't.

Windows 10 is free. The cost of compatible hardware and software is not.

I have a recent Brother Multi-function Printer that is supported on Windows 8.1. I've spent hours trying to get it to work on my print server to no avail. Fortunately my main computer is running Windows 7 and I can network the printer to get it working.

Right now if I were to upgrade, that would require $500 for a new printer because my fairly new "supported" printer does not work.

My last computer I downgraded to Windows 8 and then 8.1 and I couldn't get my DVD/Blu-ray software to work, even though it was officially supported.

Some of my games don't work on Windows 8 and probably won't in Windows 10. The two I know off the top of my head are The Sims: Medieval and Diablo 2. I recalling lots of software problems and these probably won't be fixed in Windows 10.

So while the software is "Free", many pieces of hardware are not supported, some of the supported hardware do not work. There are many pieces of software that no longer work, some of the supported software doesn't work. To upgrade you need to pay to replace these things and the cost can add up quickly.

Luke wrote on Jun 12, 2015, 05:26:
Yes on spysteam and only on spysteam , that is not ALL pc gamers , jezz ya all think steam is the only place to play 's

Doesn't mean it's inaccurate; you can get pretty reliable results from fairly small sample sizes. The question is, what factors (if any) would skew Steam's numbers relative to the overall population?

jdreyer wrote on Jun 12, 2015, 02:25:
Lots of people still on Vista.

Gamer % wise, I'd question that.

PsychoMoggieBagpuss wrote on Jun 12, 2015, 01:32:
100x this. I have both a DK1 and DK2. Mouse + Keyboard is a pain in the arse when using them as if you take your hands off the keyboard at any time and lose your position then you end up taking the headset off to relocate them.
A controller is a lot easier and the best of current options available. The STEM stuff looks interesting, but it's while off being finished. Obviously haven't tried the Oculus touch peripheral yet.

Your offhand doesn't have to be a keyboard, it could be like a nostromo. Buy I have to assume many can easily put their hand on WASD blindly and I can't believe much anyone looks at their keys while playing. That said, I haven't tried a Rift with a mouse to know for sure, I just wouldn't have a problem with finding buttons to press, it would be the affect of the device, not the finding of the keys.

We're already going to be more awkward in a full first person 3d world (that I'm willing to accept), if we then have to go to a controller to turn around, that is additional less precision than we have today. If this goes too far into awkwardness/lost precision, then it can be at risk of succeeding. In my world the controller turning around is a big deal today, it still will be a big deal in the future I can assure you.

The full VR affect will be nice, but limited in usage time wise. This thing has to work in a sit-down environment and not feel like you are a crab moving around. LE Stick was cool... until you had to use it to move around.

If I'm pretty much forced into using a controller and it functions relatively as sluggish as it does today in the new VR world, I may not be interested. Yes, I do like the mouse for control that much.

jacobvandy wrote on Jun 12, 2015, 03:00:

jdreyer wrote on Jun 12, 2015, 02:25:

PsychoMoggieBagpuss wrote on Jun 12, 2015, 01:25:

jdreyer wrote on Jun 11, 2015, 19:46:
Win 10 is free only if you're running Win 7 or above.

Like anyone serious about gaming is running XP or ME? Pull the other one, it's got bells on......

Lots of people still on Vista.

Less than 1% of PC gamers according to Steam stats. Even less than the number of poor saps still clinging to XP, lol.

Exactly. Windows 7 and 8 make up 91% of the gaming market according to Steam, so most people will qualify for a free upgrade to Windows 10 (and those that don't will simply pirate it).

As for the XB1 'support', all it's doing is running games in a window and not tracking any movement in-game - not surprising as the XB1 struggles to hit 1080p @ 60fps. Complete gimmick. At least Sony is trying to do VR properly with Morpheus.

Luke wrote on Jun 12, 2015, 05:26:
Yes on spysteam and only on spysteam , that is not ALL pc gamers , jezz ya all think steam is the only place to play 's

Said the guy who is using spydows and is using NSA Wide Web.

Let me guess: You hate Steam (as you did before when you used a different nick) because you cannot "test" Steam games hassle-free as long as you want without paying? Right?

Vive controller looks better to me. It has touch pads.

jacobvandy wrote on Jun 12, 2015, 03:00:

jdreyer wrote on Jun 12, 2015, 02:25:

PsychoMoggieBagpuss wrote on Jun 12, 2015, 01:25:

jdreyer wrote on Jun 11, 2015, 19:46:
Win 10 is free only if you're running Win 7 or above.

Like anyone serious about gaming is running XP or ME? Pull the other one, it's got bells on......

Lots of people still on Vista.

Less than 1% of PC gamers according to Steam stats. Even less than the number of poor saps still clinging to XP, lol.

Less than 1% of PC gamers according to Steam stats.

Yes on spysteam and only on spysteam , that is not ALL pc gamers , jezz ya all think steam is the only place to play 's

I think a major part of what keeps people hanging on is the driver platform is the same since vista really. They could err forcibly drop driver support for older windows releases and people would upgrade to 10 pretty sharpish

Also they're gonna have to make it really clear that Xbone can't play OR games or there are going to be a lot of confused console gamers considering it struggles with 30fps 900p

jdreyer wrote on Jun 12, 2015, 02:25:

PsychoMoggieBagpuss wrote on Jun 12, 2015, 01:25:

jdreyer wrote on Jun 11, 2015, 19:46:
Win 10 is free only if you're running Win 7 or above.

Like anyone serious about gaming is running XP or ME? Pull the other one, it's got bells on......

Lots of people still on Vista.

Less than 1% of PC gamers according to Steam stats. Even less than the number of poor saps still clinging to XP, lol.

ViRGE wrote on Jun 12, 2015, 00:28:

jdreyer wrote on Jun 11, 2015, 21:26:
Just be thankful they didn't include a kinect.

To be fair to MS, that's 80% of what the Rift's tracking system is anyhow. So you've still got a camera measuring your position... It's just looking for IR lights instead of running a more complex depth sensor.

My point was about forcing something unnecessary, not the similarities of the devices. That being said, the Kinect is quite a bit more complex than the Rift's constellation tracking device.

jdreyer wrote on Jun 11, 2015, 21:38:
Oculus gets some of the blame here, but yeah, it's weird to include an XB1 controller with it. Your target market is early adopters with extra cash, 90% of whom are already going to have multiple gaming devices that can work just fine with the 'Rift: wheels, joysticks, controllers, etc. Forcing people to purchase another device the vast majority of people won't need isn't going to sit well.

The only thing I see this being is as a counter to Valve, who are coming out with their own VR and controller.

jdreyer, not poking at you specifically, but how many people here have actually used a Rift for any period of time?

The controller is the only thing that makes sense. You can't see in front of you. You need a simple control scheme that you can navigate without looking. Devs have already tried other options with their dev kits; take it from someone who has used them, anything more than a controller really doesn't work very well.

Even as a touch typist, I'd be hard-pressed to perfectly work a keyboard completely blind when it comes to games, since it's a different mindset and muscle movements than typing out text.

Again, I'm not arguing against the suitability of the controller, I'm arguing everyone already has one. There is almost no one who is interested in the Rift that doesn't already have a controller or some peripheral that's not a kbd & mouse.

Also, a controller is personal choice. Some people prefer the PS4 design. Others are looking forward to the Steam controller. I hate wireless, I have had so many issues over the years with lag and disconnections that I just use wired devices exclusively, so I only ever buy wired controllers. I have 3 XB controllers, 1 driving wheel, and 1 HOTAS. Why do I need yet another controller?

PsychoMoggieBagpuss wrote on Jun 12, 2015, 01:25:

jdreyer wrote on Jun 11, 2015, 19:46:
Win 10 is free only if you're running Win 7 or above.

Like anyone serious about gaming is running XP or ME? Pull the other one, it's got bells on......

Lots of people still on Vista.

ViRGE wrote on Jun 12, 2015, 00:28:
The controller is the only thing that makes sense. You can't see in front of you. You need a simple control scheme that you can navigate without looking. Devs have already tried other options with their dev kits; take it from someone who has used them, anything more than a controller really doesn't work very well.

Even as a touch typist, I'd be hard-pressed to perfectly work a keyboard completely blind when it comes to games, since it's a different mindset and muscle movements than typing out text.

100x this. I have both a DK1 and DK2. Mouse + Keyboard is a pain in the arse when using them as if you take your hands off the keyboard at any time and lose your position then you end up taking the headset off to relocate them.
A controller is a lot easier and the best of current options available. The STEM stuff looks interesting, but it's while off being finished. Obviously haven't tried the Oculus touch peripheral yet.