work at a computer all day and want to play the occasional game on a couch

This was the single biggest driving force behind my original HTPC purchase a few years back. I sit at a desk staring down 4 LCDs for 8 hours a day, doing that again when I get home "for leisure" is not really appealing in any way.

SteamBox and SteamLink are basically going to be mutually exclusive purchases, but I'm not sure that Valve is technically competing against themselves as you said Verno. They are definitely presenting a myriad of options to fit almost any situation to get your Steam library to any screen in your home. I HAVE to imagine that some sort of phone/tablet streaming would be in the works as well once the dust settles.

DangerDog wrote on Jun 8, 2015, 15:49:
I sure wouldn't recommend one of these as a console replacement for the living room, especially to someone looking for a plug and play solution to play PC games on a TV in the living room.

Nobody should be praising Valve for turning the PC gaming experience into the lowest form of entertainment - yet another console.

I wouldn't recommend one to a console owner either but its just an early option, it will mature hopefully.

I don't see how they're turning it into lowest common denominator, its just an alternate GUI really. You retain all of the power to change it unlike consoles. You want a different browser or to use the KB/M instead then you can do that. Or just keep using the controller. It's just another choice, I thought we liked options?

Saying you need to have a PC running Windows to stream to a Steam Machine or that you can install Windows on it is ignoring the target demographic that this is aimed at, couch potato console gamers shopping at Walmart not some neck beard that's going to install a bunch of Linux libraries or configure a dual boot with Windows.

I think there's another demographic you're ignoring, people who are older now, work at a computer all day and want to play the occasional game on a couch

Of course there's an argument to be made that Valve is competing with itself in that regard since you could just pickup a Steam Link but that assumes you have a Host PC.

Pot meet kettle doesn't work when you are belligerently aggressive towards everyone you respond to Krovven.

When was the last time a game was released for your PS2 or N64? My imagination is not limited to the last generation of consoles that were just replaced in the past year. All current and past console libraries have a shelf life of that immediate console generation, no amount of semantic bullshit will change that. It has only gotten worse this generation with the complete cutoff of backward compatibility.

Games so old that they need to be re-released likely have to be re-purchased INTO your Steam account anyway so again... not really relevant.

But just to be clear... you are not arguing with the overall point i'm making at all... you are just semantically picking apart the posts for no reason. I'm pretty sure there's a word for that.

I sure wouldn't recommend one of these as a console replacement for the living room, especially to someone looking for a plug and play solution to play PC games on a TV in the living room.

Saying you need to have a PC running Windows to stream to a Steam Machine or that you can install Windows on it is ignoring the target demographic that this is aimed at, couch potato console gamers shopping at Walmart not some neck beard that's going to install a bunch of Linux libraries or configure a dual boot with Windows.

Nobody should be praising Valve for turning the PC gaming experience into the lowest form of entertainment - yet another console.

I feel like I'm watching an old Smashing Pumpkins video from the 90s, so much unnecessary angst.

Backwards compatibility is generally better on the PC, I can run most Win32 apps with zero customization or effort. Consoles aren't bad in this regard if you're willing to have old hardware in your AV stand, some people don't have room though. Consoles are moving increasingly toward under pinning online functionality into games which may change that but for now theres still plenty of SP stuff on the market. I unhooked my PS3 to make room for newer stuff but the option to play my old games still exists so I don't think its fair to act like its a huge advantage the PC has over consoles, they both have it in some form. Most of the good games seem to be ending up with re-releases, GOTY editions or whatever anyway.

The article is silly and ignores relevant context so much ado about nothing.

descender wrote on Jun 8, 2015, 15:09:
You just can't make a post without an unnecessary insult can you Krovven. So sad.

Whether the last game developed for x360 or ps3 is today or next year it doesn't matter, there will be an end of line as I said and that end is near.

I didn't send you a memo about plugging in your old consoles because it isn't really relevant. The life of your old purchases are directly tied to the life of the hardware of that console. What do you do when that old console stops working? None of your games work anymore or you have to buy another (likely used) console to play them. You find that to be an acceptable alternative to having your entire Steam library available to run on any PC forever? Re-buying old hardware or keeping 5 defunct consoles plugged in to your TV is the way you want to access these games?

Pot meet kettle.

No shit sherlock, that's what I said. It's the tail end of the generation. However, you stated that there were no new games coming for the consoles. That's just flat out 100% incorrect. A lie to support your argument, one which I agree with, but you make stupid fucking statements that negate yourself.

Your arguments about a console stopping working has ZERO relevance, as computers can stop working just as easily. If someone's old console does fail, they can replace it for a fraction of the cost of what it costs to replace most computer parts, nevermind a whole computer. Old consoles are CHEAP.

No you library is not going to work on any PC forever. Where the fuck have you been? The last several years has seen a massive push to re-release old PC games updated to work on new hardware. Why? Because the installers no longer worked on new systems, or the games simply wouldn't run properly on new systems.

Consoles however, you can take any cartridge or disc based game and use them on any functioning console that it was made for. To do the same on the PC usually requires some tinkering to get older games to work or keeping legacy PC's hanging around for that purpose. That a huge waste of space and time consuming for most people.

I'm all for praising PC's where it's due, as well as consoles. Your arguments however are very misguided.

This comment was edited on Jun 8, 2015, 15:41.

"Don't be an early adopter"

NO SHIT YOU FUCKING DUMBASS

You just can't make a post without an unnecessary insult can you Krovven. So sad.

Whether the last game developed for x360 or ps3 is today or next year it doesn't matter, there will be an end of line as I said and that end is near.

I didn't send you a memo about plugging in your old consoles because it isn't really relevant. The life of your old purchases are directly tied to the life of the hardware of that console. What do you do when that old console stops working? None of your games work anymore or you have to buy another (likely used) console to play them. You find that to be an acceptable alternative to having your entire Steam library available to run on any PC forever? Re-buying old hardware or keeping 5 defunct consoles plugged in to your TV is the way you want to access these games?

Krovven wrote on Jun 8, 2015, 14:38:
Long story short, the article is dumb and wrong on most accounts.
You can install Windows on the Steambox. SteamOS at this stage is to make them functional without having to pay MS a license.

Wait, are you saying this article is clickbait?

CJ_Parker wrote on Jun 8, 2015, 12:43:
I'm glad if Steam Machines and SteamOS fail hard. The last thing that PC gaming needs is more fragmentation and a quasi console competitor mole undermining PC gaming from the inside with more inferior hardware and retarded nipple rubbing controllers.
Sad as it may be but Valve is the last bastion of PC gaming. It is very concerning what they are trying to achieve with Steam Machines and SteamOS.
Microsoft started the same way with the Xbox when they had the idea around Y2K to bring gaming and entertainment to the living room.
And we all know how that ended up and how much they care about the PC anymore.

This comment makes no sense. You hope Steam OS fails, yet Valve is the last bastion of PC gaming? You hope Steam OS fails, yet rightly point out how MS has abandoned PC gaming? What's the plan then?

descender wrote on Jun 8, 2015, 13:04:
None of those counter-arguments make any sense.

It doesn't matter how many games there are for PS3 or XB360, they aren't making any new ones and they aren't updating that library anymore. Both of their game libraries are now now stale. If you want new xbox/PS games you have to buy a new console and lose compatibility with all of your old game purchases.

I guess I should have added that one in there, which one of these consoles won't cut you off from your library and make you repurchase new versions of the games you already paid for when updated hardware is released? Steambox.

3rd party games meaning, games not natively supported by the system. Xbox and PS absolutely do not let you install anything that is not an xbox or a ps game. SteamBox can have games installed on it not specifically supported by SteamOS.

Upgrading? You are still talking about upgrading a defunct console that no new games will be developed for within the next few months... so who cares if you can increase the hard drive size, you can't upgrade it to increase the performance in any way whatsoever.


Good try though? I don't know... not really. There are shortcomings to the SteamOS/SteamBox but none of the real ones are actually listed in this article.

Seems to be stupid post day for descender.

New games are still being released for the PS3/360, no the libraries are not stale. Has it slowed down? Of course, it's the tail end of a generation.

I'm sorry but I must have lost the memo that stated that old games stop working on old consoles when the new generation gets released. Hasn't happened and isn't happening.

Games that do get "shut down" are no less common on PC than they are on consoles and has nothing to do with the consoles themselves.

Long story short, the article is dumb and wrong on most accounts.
You can install Windows on the Steambox. SteamOS at this stage is to make them functional without having to pay MS a license.

The problem with SteamOS is more that yeah it can play a bunch of things but you can also just use Steam with Windows and play everything. It's intended for the living room market where Windows as a UI doesn't make a lot of sense. Valve is seeing a lot of potential markets so they're throwing stuff at the wall hoping something will stick, they have a pretty good track record at doing so.

None of those counter-arguments make any sense.

It doesn't matter how many games there are for PS3 or XB360, they aren't making any new ones and they aren't updating that library anymore. Both of their game libraries are now now stale. If you want new xbox/PS games you have to buy a new console and lose compatibility with all of your old game purchases.

I guess I should have added that one in there, which one of these consoles won't cut you off from your library and make you repurchase new versions of the games you already paid for when updated hardware is released? Steambox.

3rd party games meaning, games not natively supported by the system. Xbox and PS absolutely do not let you install anything that is not an xbox or a ps game. SteamBox can have games installed on it not specifically supported by SteamOS.

Upgrading? You are still talking about upgrading a defunct console that no new games will be developed for within the next few months... so who cares if you can increase the hard drive size, you can't upgrade it to increase the performance in any way whatsoever.


Good try though? I don't know... not really. There are shortcomings to the SteamOS/SteamBox but none of the real ones are actually listed in this article.

This comment was edited on Jun 8, 2015, 13:09.

descender wrote on Jun 8, 2015, 12:41:
This entire article is really stupid. There are literally thousands of SteamOS compatible games on Steam right now. Of the 10 "most played" games on Steam, 7 of them are SteamOS compatible.

What console has a library of over a thousand games that is still constantly being expanded and updated?
What console has the ability to install 3rd party games?
What console has the ability to be upgraded in the event that they are not powerful enough to run SteamVR hardware?
What console lets you easily share your library with your friends/family without losing control of your physical copies of games?

Only the SteamBox.

Does it have flaws? Sure. Is version 1 of the SteamBox going to win the console war? of course not. Is it the best/only possibility we have for breaking down the walled-gardens of Sony and Microsoft and ending the disparity between PC and console games? Yes, absolutely. if only for that last reason alone people should be championing and hoping for the success of this venture.

This entire comment is really stupid.

What console has a library of over a thousand games that is... - Since you're counting EVERYTHING, you have to count PSN and XBL games. Trust me, the PS3 and Xbox360 have well over a thousand games.
What console has the ability to install 3rd party games? Um... the 360 and PS3 have that ability, unless you have your own personal definition of "3rd party games"
Upgrading? The 360 can be upgraded. Not much, but still...

/sigh...

I get your point, but your arguments are idiotic. Stop that.

descender wrote on Jun 8, 2015, 12:41:
This entire article is really stupid. There are literally thousands of SteamOS compatible games on Steam right now. Of the 10 "most played" games on Steam, 7 of them are SteamOS compatible.

What console has a library of over a thousand games that is still constantly being expanded and updated?
What console has the ability to install 3rd party games?
What console has the ability to be upgraded in the event that they are not powerful enough to run SteamVR hardware?

Only the SteamBox.

I agree with this, the long game blows consoles out of the water. 100% compatible, forever. Upgraded hardware purchasable when you like. Consoles really do need to make this move already. That said, I'd just rather have a win version of a steam box, even if it were just for playing games, that way you get everything.

I'm glad if Steam Machines and SteamOS fail hard. The last thing that PC gaming needs is more fragmentation and a quasi console competitor mole undermining PC gaming from the inside with more inferior hardware and retarded nipple rubbing controllers.
Sad as it may be but Valve is the last bastion of PC gaming. It is very concerning what they are trying to achieve with Steam Machines and SteamOS.
Microsoft started the same way with the Xbox when they had the idea around Y2K to bring gaming and entertainment to the living room.
And we all know how that ended up and how much they care about the PC anymore.

This entire article is really stupid. There are literally thousands of SteamOS compatible games on Steam right now. Of the 10 "most played" games on Steam, 7 of them are SteamOS compatible.

What console has a library of over a thousand games that is still constantly being expanded and updated?
What console has the ability to install 3rd party games?
What console has the ability to be upgraded in the event that they are not powerful enough to run SteamVR hardware?
What console lets you easily share your library with your friends/family without losing control of your physical copies of games?

Only the SteamBox.

Does it have flaws? Sure. Is version 1 of the SteamBox going to win the console war? of course not. Is it the best/only possibility we have for breaking down the walled-gardens of Sony and Microsoft and ending the disparity between PC and console games? Yes, absolutely. if only for that last reason alone people should be championing and hoping for the success of this venture.

This comment was edited on Jun 8, 2015, 12:47.

Cutter wrote on Jun 8, 2015, 12:23:

TheEmissary wrote on Jun 8, 2015, 12:08:
It seems like the author is missing the mark. You can install 3rd party software if you go in to desktop mode. Once there you can install the missing dependencies and packages just like any other linux distribution.

http://www.howtogeek.com/179883/how-to-use-the-steamos-desktop/

There are major AAA games coming out that support PC/Mac/Linux/SteamOS. The Back-catalog isn't really all that bad.

The entire point of this is to compete with consoles for ease-of-use for gamers who aren't PC savy so how would something like this possibly be of any benefit? It defeats the entire purpose of the machine to begin with. One way or the other you're still better off just buying a Windows based PC.

I was just mentioning the edge cases. You can support games that aren't "Steam supported". On Windows even you might occasionally have to manually install and also no different to how people may sideload apps on mobile platforms.

I am sure Valve if they have the desire they can solve the dependency issue for running non-steam linux games. Most package managers are really easy in terms of installing what you need to run the application. It can almost be automated or have dialog prompts no different to when you install Windows games with 5-10 Redist libraries (DX/OGL, VC++, etc).

HorrorScope wrote on Jun 8, 2015, 11:54:
Are there still going to be options for these units to be ordered with Windows?

It's called the Alienware Alpha
http://www.alienware.com/landings/alpha/

TheEmissary wrote on Jun 8, 2015, 12:08:
It seems like the author is missing the mark. You can install 3rd party software if you go in to desktop mode. Once there you can install the missing dependencies and packages just like any other linux distribution.

http://www.howtogeek.com/179883/how-to-use-the-steamos-desktop/

There are major AAA games coming out that support PC/Mac/Linux/SteamOS. The Back-catalog isn't really all that bad.

The entire point of this is to compete with consoles for ease-of-use for gamers who aren't PC savy so how would something like this possibly be of any benefit? It defeats the entire purpose of the machine to begin with. One way or the other you're still better off just buying a Windows based PC.