Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds

The backlash to the recent addition of paid modifications to the Steam Workshop has caused Valve to backtrack from the plan (thanks Mashiki). A Steam Community Group Announcement from Valve's Alden Kroll states they are killing the program and offering refunds to those who paid for mods for The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim:
We're going to remove the payment feature from the Skyrim workshop. For anyone who spent money on a mod, we'll be refunding you the complete amount. We talked to the team at Bethesda and they agree.

We've done this because it's clear we didn't understand exactly what we were doing. We've been shipping many features over the years aimed at allowing community creators to receive a share of the rewards, and in the past, they've been received well. It's obvious now that this case is different.

To help you understand why we thought this was a good idea, our main goals were to allow mod makers the opportunity to work on their mods full time if they wanted to, and to encourage developers to provide better support to their mod communities. We thought this would result in better mods for everyone, both free & paid. We wanted more great mods becoming great products, like Dota, Counter-strike, DayZ, and Killing Floor, and we wanted that to happen organically for any mod maker who wanted to take a shot at it.

But we underestimated the differences between our previously successful revenue sharing models, and the addition of paid mods to Skyrim's workshop. We understand our own game's communities pretty well, but stepping into an established, years old modding community in Skyrim was probably not the right place to start iterating. We think this made us miss the mark pretty badly, even though we believe there's a useful feature somewhere here.

Now that you've backed a dump truck of feedback onto our inboxes, we'll be chewing through that, but if you have any further thoughts let us know.
View : : :
101 Replies. 6 pages. Viewing page 1.
Newer [  1  2  3  4  5  6  ] Older
101.
 
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds
Apr 29, 2015, 08:17
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds Apr 29, 2015, 08:17
Apr 29, 2015, 08:17
 
you're a complete idiot. i know tons of graphic artists (which is literally their occupational title) that ONLY do it to get paid, then they go home and watch tv and fuck off

you dont know everything about everyone.. to assert that is ridiculous.. just give it up already
100.
 
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds
Apr 29, 2015, 05:16
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds Apr 29, 2015, 05:16
Apr 29, 2015, 05:16
 
Did everyone just get hit by a stupid virus or what the fuck? I said that no one does art JUST to get paid. JUST. in Capital LETTERS FFS! Artists would do their thing no matter what, those who can do it to earn a living are the lucky ones, I WISH that everyone who dabbles in any kind of art, could be so lucky to earn their living doing art.

But no one does art JUST (look CAPITAL letters again HINT! HINT!) to make money. Those that have a job doing what they love are the lucky ones, I wish all of us could be so lucky. But trust me on this, even if they didn't have that particular job, they would still be doing their thing...
I have a nifty blue line!
Avatar 46994
99.
 
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds
Apr 29, 2015, 04:18
Slick
 
99.
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds Apr 29, 2015, 04:18
Apr 29, 2015, 04:18
 Slick
 
So let me get this straight... doing what you love, and wanting to be paid for it.. well that's okay. but nobody has a "job" making art.

you're walking a fine line there.

artists deserve the right to not be treated as second-class citizens when it comes to being paid for their work.

end of story. case closed. final word.
For your transgressions you shall be labeled a shill, called an idiot and anytime you mention facts or disagree with a tribe member you will henceforth be known as a troll. The best you can hope for is that the labels won't haunt your offspring. -RedEye9
Avatar 57545
98.
 
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds
Apr 29, 2015, 03:35
98.
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds Apr 29, 2015, 03:35
Apr 29, 2015, 03:35
 
Silicon Avatar wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 10:06:
InBlack wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 08:29:
Slick wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 08:24:
OpticNerve wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 07:58:
Slick wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 07:36:
creating art isn't a job?
Wow, if you think that's true, then you might be in the wrong business/hobby. If you draw for a company or commission, then yes it is a job.

You create art to improve yourself and your skills. It's not a job. It's an investment.

I don't even know where to begin... there are no artisans in the world apparently. there are only hobbiests who create "true" art, anyone receiving a paycheque are just hucksters i suppose?. And i was the one being accused of living in a dystopia...

No true artist creates art just to get paid, the lucky ones get to sell some of it. The really lucky ones can live from their art. The very vast majority eats crud. Most do it for reasons other than money, and those that do it just for the money are more often than not untalanted hacks. Ask any artist if you dont believe me.


I have "asked an artist" and you are full of it. Professional artists want to be paid. It can take a hundred hours to make a picture. You think pro artists don't want a return on that time? Wha??



READING COMPREHENSION! Where did I say that artists don't want to be paid!? Where?...please quote that part in red! I myself am a musician and I compose every now and again, so this is doubly insulting!
I have a nifty blue line!
Avatar 46994
97.
 
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds
Apr 29, 2015, 00:46
97.
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds Apr 29, 2015, 00:46
Apr 29, 2015, 00:46
 
This guy made a freakin awesome castle in Landmark - professional quality. Perhaps they should start charging a 5 dolla entry fee to view it, afterall he put in a lot of work.
96.
 
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds
Apr 28, 2015, 22:18
Slick
 
96.
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds Apr 28, 2015, 22:18
Apr 28, 2015, 22:18
 Slick
 
ventry wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 20:30:
Slick wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 06:41:
congrats PC gamers! you really SHOWED THE MAN with this one. way to fuck over the little guy!

If the "little guy" wants to make money then mods is the wrong way to do it.
Keep sucking those sour grapes.

I make music, and I DJ. I don't do it because i'm looking for a paycheque, I do it because I love to do it. That feeling can co-exist with feeling good about being appreciated monetarily (the very few times that happens.

"if you wanted to make money, then you wouldn't be dumb and work on something you're passionate about."

your condescending tone towards the modding community only reveals how this narrative you, and thousands of others have fabricated is furthering your own selfish ends, to never have to pay for a mod. And has zero regard for the artists who have enhanced your life throughout the years.

All this thread makes me think of is when Krusty the Klown sells out as a comic and starts hocking the Camyanaro car because "they pulled a dumptruck full of money up to my house", then breaks down crying. That's the image I think alot of people here are channeling when they think of artists being paid. Like it's sacrilegious to combine making money and making art. There's a big gulf between artists "selling out" and making ends meet. It's usually closer to the "quarter in the tip jar" end of the scale.

And for the record, I think the idea to keep all existing free mods free, and only new content going forward could be behind a pay wall is brilliant, and could have potentially saved this debacle. And it's obvious to even a complete nincompoop that monetizing mods and kicking that back to developers is the BEST way to ensure a bright future where more games have mod support built-in from day one.
For your transgressions you shall be labeled a shill, called an idiot and anytime you mention facts or disagree with a tribe member you will henceforth be known as a troll. The best you can hope for is that the labels won't haunt your offspring. -RedEye9
Avatar 57545
95.
 
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds
Apr 28, 2015, 20:30
95.
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds Apr 28, 2015, 20:30
Apr 28, 2015, 20:30
 
Slick wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 06:41:
congrats PC gamers! you really SHOWED THE MAN with this one. way to fuck over the little guy!

If the "little guy" wants to make money then mods is the wrong way to do it.
Keep sucking those sour grapes.
My prediction:
Joe Biden will come down with the Chinese Coof Coof so he won't have to debate Trump.
94.
 
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds
Apr 28, 2015, 19:49
94.
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds Apr 28, 2015, 19:49
Apr 28, 2015, 19:49
 
Slick wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 08:24:
OpticNerve wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 07:58:
Slick wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 07:36:
creating art isn't a job?
Wow, if you think that's true, then you might be in the wrong business/hobby. If you draw for a company or commission, then yes it is a job.

You create art to improve yourself and your skills. It's not a job. It's an investment.

I don't even know where to begin... there are no artisans in the world apparently. there are only hobbiests who create "true" art, anyone receiving a paycheque are just hucksters i suppose?. And i was the one being accused of living in a dystopia...

you dont even have to begin, the guy is apparently handicapped, or brain damaged in some way

just nod and say "there, there.. its ok, buddy!"
93.
 
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds
Apr 28, 2015, 19:45
93.
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds Apr 28, 2015, 19:45
Apr 28, 2015, 19:45
 
InBlack wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 08:10:
@Harlock: Maybe because the status-quo was working out pretty good for all parties concerned?

same exact argument for every knee-jerk reaction to change since the beginning of time.. its so 100% cliche that im tempted to think youre joking here
92.
 
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds
Apr 28, 2015, 15:40
92.
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds Apr 28, 2015, 15:40
Apr 28, 2015, 15:40
 
Creston wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 15:03:
Drayth wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 13:10:
They were going to leave the free one up. The new one was to have only new functions added (I think it was just mod menu stuff, mainly something to do with crafting), no changes or improvements over the existing functions of the free one.

I'd have been fine with that.

I'd also be fine if the SkyUI guys make a mod for the next Beth game (FO4;ES6 whatever) and charge for it from the get-go. SkyUI is definitely worth 5 or 10 bucks to me.

But it really needs to be from the get-go, not get switched over after four years.

A fiver. Maybe some type of kickstarter where they pitch the mod, you contribute if you want, but there is no payout until release. I dunno, I do know mid-stream change like this is a asking for it. Good news for me I'm fine either way, too many games too little time already.
Avatar 17232
91.
 
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds
Apr 28, 2015, 15:03
91.
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds Apr 28, 2015, 15:03
Apr 28, 2015, 15:03
 
Drayth wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 13:10:
They were going to leave the free one up. The new one was to have only new functions added (I think it was just mod menu stuff, mainly something to do with crafting), no changes or improvements over the existing functions of the free one.

I'd have been fine with that.

I'd also be fine if the SkyUI guys make a mod for the next Beth game (FO4;ES6 whatever) and charge for it from the get-go. SkyUI is definitely worth 5 or 10 bucks to me.

But it really needs to be from the get-go, not get switched over after four years.
Avatar 15604
90.
 
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds
Apr 28, 2015, 14:53
90.
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds Apr 28, 2015, 14:53
Apr 28, 2015, 14:53
 
Quboid wrote on Apr 27, 2015, 21:16:
nin wrote on Apr 27, 2015, 21:07:
We've done this because it's clear we didn't understand exactly what we were doing.

That's putting it mildly.

Glad they reversed. I have no issue with folks making quality work getting paid, but as it was implemented, it just seemed ripe for abuse. And yeah, it didn't seem very well thought out.

Maybe next time (shudder) how about just an optional donation button.


Well put.

If they do try paid mods again (and I've little doubt that they will) they should launch it with a new title. I can see that they wouldn't want the flak to affect the game's sales, and there would still be plenty of unhappiness, but pulling the rug from under existing players' feet was a dreadful idea.

I wouldn't have even been particularly opposed to them starting up with Skyrim as long as they made it start from scratch and didn't pull over existing free mods.

If mod authors wanted to put their previously free mods behind a paywall Valve could stipulate that you had to release a final free version of the mod before you could move on and any new development would be pay to play.
89.
 
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds
Apr 28, 2015, 13:10
89.
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds Apr 28, 2015, 13:10
Apr 28, 2015, 13:10
 
They were going to leave the free one up. The new one was to have only new functions added (I think it was just mod menu stuff, mainly something to do with crafting), no changes or improvements over the existing functions of the free one.
Avatar 36713
88.
 
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds
Apr 28, 2015, 11:33
88.
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds Apr 28, 2015, 11:33
Apr 28, 2015, 11:33
 
OpticNerve wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 03:45:
I am curious though. There was a big backlash against certain popular modders who "sold out" and made their Skyrim mods paid only and/or took down their free version from Nexus. One mod that pops into mind is SkyUI. I wonder if this'll affect the community respect and popularity of his mod going forward after this fiasco.

I don't think SkyUI was taken down? I think they were just talking about it going paid-only. Even so, everyone and their dog had already downloaded the latest version of SkyUI and they hadn't done much development to it, if any, for well over a year if not more.

Them going paid only wouldn't have magically deleted everyone's older, freely downloaded version.

I was worried, however, that they'd continue to develop for it and that development would start causing issues.
Avatar 15604
87.
 
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds
Apr 28, 2015, 11:04
87.
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds Apr 28, 2015, 11:04
Apr 28, 2015, 11:04
 
Big picture, the discussion is too much about Skyrim which is designed to be modified by the community.

But focus on the rest of your games, a few more are modifiable, but most aren't. But chances are you wish more were modifiable with relative ease.

Well having a facility to potentially monetize outstanding efforts with a kickback to the original developers would give them more incentive to make their games more open to mods. That is the win.

In time the market would figure itself out. The XP, damage tweak, basic skin mods wouldn't have a cost to them, but would be very welcome too many, often. The keystone or total conversions would have a cost and deserve it to those that want it.

The win to "some" paid mods is making a game open to modding to begin with, a pay for section would drive more developers to make their games open instead of closed. You could still live in a free mod world, as most would still be free and ignore the ones that have a cost.
Avatar 17232
86.
 
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds
Apr 28, 2015, 10:06
86.
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds Apr 28, 2015, 10:06
Apr 28, 2015, 10:06
 
InBlack wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 08:29:
Slick wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 08:24:
OpticNerve wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 07:58:
Slick wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 07:36:
creating art isn't a job?
Wow, if you think that's true, then you might be in the wrong business/hobby. If you draw for a company or commission, then yes it is a job.

You create art to improve yourself and your skills. It's not a job. It's an investment.

I don't even know where to begin... there are no artisans in the world apparently. there are only hobbiests who create "true" art, anyone receiving a paycheque are just hucksters i suppose?. And i was the one being accused of living in a dystopia...

No true artist creates art just to get paid, the lucky ones get to sell some of it. The really lucky ones can live from their art. The very vast majority eats crud. Most do it for reasons other than money, and those that do it just for the money are more often than not untalanted hacks. Ask any artist if you dont believe me.


I have "asked an artist" and you are full of it. Professional artists want to be paid. It can take a hundred hours to make a picture. You think pro artists don't want a return on that time? Wha??


Avatar 18037
85.
 
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds
Apr 28, 2015, 09:35
85.
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds Apr 28, 2015, 09:35
Apr 28, 2015, 09:35
 
InBlack wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 08:38:
You are using a false analogy yet again. Im talking about modding. Or if you really want to generalise, working on someone else's foundation with their permission. The whole concept of modding is built on this premise. Sort of like open-source. Once you close that shit down, and bring money into the game, bye bye modding. How many games today support mods compared to the games of the 90's? Why do you think that is? IP control. You are naive if you dont believe that is exactly what is going to happen to a rich modding community like Skyrim's once money is involved. Sure the 'big' popular mods will survive, they will even probably be bigger and better. But the community as a whole will wither away, and innovation will be limited by what you can sell and to whom.

I agree with this. When you introduce money, it's a race to the bottom in terms of mod quality. The development groups will be smaller and closed off to avoid splitting profits. Also, people will keep secrets to gain a competitive edge. Modders will also be less favorable to others using their ideas, and this will elevate the amount of discord.

I think people will reject the idea of paid mods in any game like Skyrim and will always turn to the *OPEN* (not to be read as free) option.
84.
 
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds
Apr 28, 2015, 09:13
Slick
 
84.
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds Apr 28, 2015, 09:13
Apr 28, 2015, 09:13
 Slick
 
anyways, inblack, been a pleasure. but we've argued into a new news day. i'm going to go rape people with my FMG9 in BFH.
For your transgressions you shall be labeled a shill, called an idiot and anytime you mention facts or disagree with a tribe member you will henceforth be known as a troll. The best you can hope for is that the labels won't haunt your offspring. -RedEye9
Avatar 57545
83.
 
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds
Apr 28, 2015, 09:08
83.
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds Apr 28, 2015, 09:08
Apr 28, 2015, 09:08
 
The damage is done and they are showing what they are capable of doing. Anything for a profit and anything for win over the "internet" by letting Gabe doing a AMA on reddit or where ever.

Actually money is how the community steers work. (c) Gabe.

People keep falling for their damage control every time.
82.
 
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds
Apr 28, 2015, 09:01
Slick
 
82.
Re: Steam Ending Paid Mods; Providing Refunds Apr 28, 2015, 09:01
Apr 28, 2015, 09:01
 Slick
 
InBlack wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 08:54:
Slick wrote on Apr 28, 2015, 08:48:
so where's the problem again?

I edited my previous post so you probably didnt catch it. IP control is the problem. People won't be able to build on mods if they become pay-to-play. The mod creators sure as hell wont let others feed off their success free of charge. Do you get what Im saying? You will close off the biggest source of innovation in the modding scene, the true reason why modding is such a huge success, the ability to take someone else's mod and improve upon it.

no I edited MY last post, you have to go read mine now =p

yeah, and i've already tackled this with another one of my winning music analogies:

nobody makes remixes of other people's songs, because it's impossible to figure out a rational, logical way to distribute proceeds to both parties. oh wait, they do that all the time.

GUY A) i made a music. i sell it for $500
GUY B) i altered GUY A's music, I sell it for $500, then give GUY A $250
*oh wait, we both sell musics in the same store, so GUYB's music is sold, then each party just gets $250 each. it's controlled and justly adjudicated!

it's really not rocket science. other artistic industries have figured this out long ago. It's not as if this problem is so impossible to tackle that we can't even imagine the idea of a world where it could be solved.

I get what you're saying, i just find a loop hole in it. the loophole is this:

If i release a song for FREE. then someone else edits it and makes money off of it. WHO THE FUCK CARES!? I gave it away for free! i relinquished all control. I said here you go world, it's yours, not mine. enjoy!

not that this scenario is even realistic, as i already showed how it's possible that both parties can see a share of proceeds from each sale, if that's what the parties agree to.
For your transgressions you shall be labeled a shill, called an idiot and anytime you mention facts or disagree with a tribe member you will henceforth be known as a troll. The best you can hope for is that the labels won't haunt your offspring. -RedEye9
Avatar 57545
101 Replies. 6 pages. Viewing page 1.
Newer [  1  2  3  4  5  6  ] Older