Out of the Blue

Happy 4/20. Please be safe if you are celebrating. Best commemoration of the occasion? I'd have to say the Philadelphia Eagles, who shared a fattie and apparently cooked up a plan to sign Tim Tebow. Those guys really know how to party.

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Play: Mortal Kombat.
Raid Encounters.
Stories: Parrot's Cries of 'Help, Fire' Bring Firefighters to Burning House in Idaho. Thanks j.c.f.
William Shatner’s $30 Billion Kickstarter Campaign to Save California. Thanks HARDOCP.
Jon Stewart: why I quit The Daily Show.
Science: New evidence that dark matter could be self-interacting.
Media: Fantastic Four - Official Trailer. Reed looks an awful lot like Gordon Freeman in his space suit.
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THE LAST OF US- PART 4 (Teens React- Gaming).
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31 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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31.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Apr 21, 2015, 02:59
31.
Re: Out of the Blue Apr 21, 2015, 02:59
Apr 21, 2015, 02:59
 
I disagree that the F35 is a bad plane. A lot of those issues jdreyer mentioned have been ironed out, and its capabilites heavily outweigh it's deficencies. The VSTOL Marine version is probably the only 'dog' in the lineup.
I have a nifty blue line!
Avatar 46994
30.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Apr 21, 2015, 02:20
30.
Re: Out of the Blue Apr 21, 2015, 02:20
Apr 21, 2015, 02:20
 
Met him in person in Kentucky. Wasn't impressed.

BTW: Still seeing my "wealthy" neighbors watering their lawns and plants during the daytime. No wonder why this area is up for 35% restriction.

I think eventually there will be an entire saline infrastructure and desalination will be done via private business and residence (or communities) using a combo of solar and household battery aystems. Once perfected, made to be efficient, and cost effective freshwater collection will be disallowed and made to return to the natural ecosystem.

The other thing (temporary measure) that will probably happen is forcing businesses that utilize a lot of water to come up with private interstate irrigation systems or face heavy tariffs or sanction.

This comment was edited on Apr 21, 2015, 02:41.
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29.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Apr 21, 2015, 02:05
29.
Re: Out of the Blue Apr 21, 2015, 02:05
Apr 21, 2015, 02:05
 
1badmf wrote on Apr 20, 2015, 18:05:
f35 will be a useful combat jet whenever it comes into service, they've just waaaaay overrun the original cost projections. originally it was supposed to cost like $35 million per plane. with no alternative in sight, they pretty much have to push on with it if they don't want to fall behind new russian and chinese fighter programs like the pak-fa and j-20.

i dig that you know so much about it. i've been an aviation junkie since i saw top gun as a kid, but the first time i had to get glasses in 8th grade i knew the dream was over. still love talking about those pretty birds though.

A friend got me into them in 1990 or so. Then I got hooked on flight sims like Falcon 3 & 4, F-19, Janes, etc. Haven't looked back.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
Avatar 22024
28.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Apr 21, 2015, 01:55
28.
Re: Out of the Blue Apr 21, 2015, 01:55
Apr 21, 2015, 01:55
 
Silicon Avatar wrote on Apr 20, 2015, 18:52:
What if our fighter jets do fall behind China? Does it matter? What big player is going to screw with another nuclear power? Invading the US would be a complete nightmare whether our jets can dance ballet or not.

Besides in five years it's going to be all drones anyway.


I agree that drones are the future, and will replace manned fighters as they age out of service. But being a nuclear power hasn't really prevented us all that much from being attacked or being involved in wars, thus the need for a strong conventional force (arguments on the necessity of most of those conflicts notwithstanding). First is the political hit of using even a single small nuke: you become a pariah state. Also, many wars have been proxy fights in other countries. It's not worth nuking Russia over Vietnam, for example.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
Avatar 22024
27.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Apr 21, 2015, 01:21
27.
Re: Out of the Blue Apr 21, 2015, 01:21
Apr 21, 2015, 01:21
 
Cutter wrote on Apr 21, 2015, 00:32:
Really? And when, pray, was the last time the US, China, and Russia were at war with each other? Oh right, never. And they neve will. The MIIC has been milking the taxpayers since Eisenhower left - and warned the public about. 70 years and trillions of dollars wasted - scratch that, stolen - from the American taxpayer for shit they don't need in conflicts that never needed to happen. But hey, enjoy not even being in the top 30 of living standards around the world now.

Cutter, the US flown against Russian and Chinese jets many times in the past 75 years: Korea, Vietnam, the Middle East, etc. even if we've never been formally at war with Russia and China. And we're also supposed to be selling our jets to our allies, whose air forces might run into gen 5 jets from Chengdu and Sukhoi and expect not to lose too many planes after paying top dollar. I agree the program is largely a boondoggle at this point, but the money has basically been spent. And when they loose a few, we'll see them replaced by much cheaper drones anyway. The F-35 will likely be America's last manned fighter aircraft program.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
Avatar 22024
26.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Apr 21, 2015, 01:06
26.
Re: Out of the Blue Apr 21, 2015, 01:06
Apr 21, 2015, 01:06
 
The Half Elf wrote on Apr 20, 2015, 23:34:
William Shatner is a second rate actor? Best acting of his career was in Boston Legal.

DENNY CRANE!


BTW, finished watching DareDevil on Netflix. Wow. Quite a bit bloodier and darker then I thought it would be, but daaaaaamn, I want another season!

Yeah, Daredevil is impressive. I've watched 4 episodes so far, and am liking it a lot.

Your sig is still making me smile.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
Avatar 22024
25.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Apr 21, 2015, 01:03
25.
Re: Out of the Blue Apr 21, 2015, 01:03
Apr 21, 2015, 01:03
 
Cutter wrote on Apr 21, 2015, 00:32:
mag wrote on Apr 21, 2015, 00:15:
Silicon Avatar wrote on Apr 20, 2015, 18:52:
What if our fighter jets do fall behind China? Does it matter? What big player is going to screw with another nuclear power? Invading the US would be a complete nightmare whether our jets can dance ballet or not.

Besides in five years it's going to be all drones anyway.


It's not a matter of fighting China or Russia or whatever. It's a matter of who will they sell their new fighters to. The next time NATO countries want to fuck around in the Middle East, they don't want to be flying F-18s against whatever new 5th gen fighter the Russians or Chinese sell to them.

I'm assuming that's the case, anyway. I dunno.

Really? And when, pray, was the last time the US, China, and Russia were at war with each other? Oh right, never. And they neve will. The MIIC has been milking the taxpayers since Eisenhower left - and warned the public about. 70 years and trillions of dollars wasted - scratch that, stolen - from the American taxpayer for shit they don't need in conflicts that never needed to happen. But hey, enjoy not even being in the top 30 of living standards around the world now.


try reading his post before you post irrelevant nonsense again.
24.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Apr 21, 2015, 00:32
24.
Re: Out of the Blue Apr 21, 2015, 00:32
Apr 21, 2015, 00:32
 
mag wrote on Apr 21, 2015, 00:15:
Silicon Avatar wrote on Apr 20, 2015, 18:52:
What if our fighter jets do fall behind China? Does it matter? What big player is going to screw with another nuclear power? Invading the US would be a complete nightmare whether our jets can dance ballet or not.

Besides in five years it's going to be all drones anyway.


It's not a matter of fighting China or Russia or whatever. It's a matter of who will they sell their new fighters to. The next time NATO countries want to fuck around in the Middle East, they don't want to be flying F-18s against whatever new 5th gen fighter the Russians or Chinese sell to them.

I'm assuming that's the case, anyway. I dunno.

Really? And when, pray, was the last time the US, China, and Russia were at war with each other? Oh right, never. And they neve will. The MIIC has been milking the taxpayers since Eisenhower left - and warned the public about. 70 years and trillions of dollars wasted - scratch that, stolen - from the American taxpayer for shit they don't need in conflicts that never needed to happen. But hey, enjoy not even being in the top 30 of living standards around the world now.

"Van Gogh painted alone and in despair and in madness and sold one picture in his entire life. Millions struggled alone, unrecognized, and struggled as heroically as any famous hero. Was it worthless? I knew it wasn't."
23.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Apr 21, 2015, 00:15
mag
23.
Re: Out of the Blue Apr 21, 2015, 00:15
Apr 21, 2015, 00:15
mag
 
Silicon Avatar wrote on Apr 20, 2015, 18:52:
What if our fighter jets do fall behind China? Does it matter? What big player is going to screw with another nuclear power? Invading the US would be a complete nightmare whether our jets can dance ballet or not.

Besides in five years it's going to be all drones anyway.


It's not a matter of fighting China or Russia or whatever. It's a matter of who will they sell their new fighters to. The next time NATO countries want to fuck around in the Middle East, they don't want to be flying F-18s against whatever new 5th gen fighter the Russians or Chinese sell to them.

I'm assuming that's the case, anyway. I dunno.
22.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Apr 20, 2015, 23:34
22.
Re: Out of the Blue Apr 20, 2015, 23:34
Apr 20, 2015, 23:34
 
William Shatner is a second rate actor? Best acting of his career was in Boston Legal.

DENNY CRANE!


BTW, finished watching DareDevil on Netflix. Wow. Quite a bit bloodier and darker then I thought it would be, but daaaaaamn, I want another season!
Avatar 12670
21.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Apr 20, 2015, 21:27
21.
Re: Out of the Blue Apr 20, 2015, 21:27
Apr 20, 2015, 21:27
 
happy 4/20... LOL! it's an actual holiday now?
Avatar 571
20.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Apr 20, 2015, 18:52
20.
Re: Out of the Blue Apr 20, 2015, 18:52
Apr 20, 2015, 18:52
 
What if our fighter jets do fall behind China? Does it matter? What big player is going to screw with another nuclear power? Invading the US would be a complete nightmare whether our jets can dance ballet or not.

Besides in five years it's going to be all drones anyway.

Avatar 18037
19.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Apr 20, 2015, 18:05
19.
Re: Out of the Blue Apr 20, 2015, 18:05
Apr 20, 2015, 18:05
 
jdreyer wrote on Apr 20, 2015, 15:58:
Cutter wrote on Apr 20, 2015, 15:20:
Or 140 million for a fighter jet that'll never be used.

I assume you're referring to the F-35. The cost is $1.5T for the entire program, or an average of $178M per plane. Is it worth 3.5 F-16s? They only cost $47M each.

Also, the F-35 is a dog. Say what you will about the F-22, at least it can do what it was designed for. The F-35, especially the VSTOL requirement, makes it jack of all trades, master of none.

f35 will be a useful combat jet whenever it comes into service, they've just waaaaay overrun the original cost projections. originally it was supposed to cost like $35 million per plane. with no alternative in sight, they pretty much have to push on with it if they don't want to fall behind new russian and chinese fighter programs like the pak-fa and j-20.

i dig that you know so much about it. i've been an aviation junkie since i saw top gun as a kid, but the first time i had to get glasses in 8th grade i knew the dream was over. still love talking about those pretty birds though.
18.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Apr 20, 2015, 17:24
18.
Re: Out of the Blue Apr 20, 2015, 17:24
Apr 20, 2015, 17:24
 
That FF4 trailer looks pretty good. That cast fit well into their roles with the possible exception of Jamie Bell, who is a fine actor, but maybe not right for the iconic character and personality of Ben Grimm.

And, yep, who can deny the influence of Half Life.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
Avatar 22024
17.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Apr 20, 2015, 16:14
17.
Re: Out of the Blue Apr 20, 2015, 16:14
Apr 20, 2015, 16:14
 
Shatner, go back to being a second rate actor and leave thinking to smarter people. Newsflash: Arid IS the natural state of the most populated regions in CA.

LA already has water pipelines sucking water from the mountains to the desert. How's that working out for them? Oh, right, they screwed up the whole ecosystem in the places they sucked the water from. Yeah, I'm sure Seattle wants to send its fresh water all the way down the coast to California.
16.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Apr 20, 2015, 16:04
16.
Re: Out of the Blue Apr 20, 2015, 16:04
Apr 20, 2015, 16:04
 
If water wasn't used in a ridiculously wasteful way by the ag industry there, but instead reflected something at least close to a market value for water, then maybe those crops could be grown somewhere more suitable. Rice paddies and other highly water-intensive crops shouldn't be grown in a place that doesn't have the kind of consistent rainfall needed to support them.
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
Avatar 9540
15.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Apr 20, 2015, 15:58
15.
Re: Out of the Blue Apr 20, 2015, 15:58
Apr 20, 2015, 15:58
 
Cutter wrote on Apr 20, 2015, 15:20:
Or 140 million for a fighter jet that'll never be used.

I assume you're referring to the F-35. The cost is $1.5T for the entire program, or an average of $178M per plane. Is it worth 3.5 F-16s? They only cost $47M each.

Also, the F-35 is a dog. Say what you will about the F-22, at least it can do what it was designed for. The F-35, especially the VSTOL requirement, makes it jack of all trades, master of none.

This comment was edited on Apr 20, 2015, 16:08.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
Avatar 22024
14.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Apr 20, 2015, 15:50
14.
Re: Out of the Blue Apr 20, 2015, 15:50
Apr 20, 2015, 15:50
 
Cutter wrote on Apr 20, 2015, 14:28:
He said California is the breadbasket of the world. He must be getting senile as that belongs to Saskatchewan alone which supplies 10% of the world's wheat. The US combined only supplies about 10% of the world's wheat.

And desalinization is perfectly viable. You'd need to spend about 600B +/- to provide water for the entire state. That's less than the US military budget for 1 year. Slash your wasteful corporate welfare to the MIIC and you'll have plenty of money for things people actually need.

Perfect example: Congress Again Buys Abrams Tanks the Army Doesn't Want

Even the Army recognizes the need to scale back, but the GOP keep stealing from the taxpayers regardless.

Well not literally bread, but California produces a massive amount of food, more than half of all fruit, veggies, and nuts in the USA. If it was its own country, it would be one of the top 10 agricultural nations in the world, ahead of Canada, Mexico, Germany, and Spain. If CA got nuked entire crops would fall off the face of the planet or double in price like almonds, raisins, and walnuts, because they're produced nowhere else or CA is by far the leading producer.

As for desal plants, they don't need to desal 100% of their water, but some major % needs to be covered, like 25-30%. And that's a few hundred billion. And that would be after cheaper alternatives such as gray water reclamation, more efficient irrigation techniques, and other conservation methods had been implemented.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
Avatar 22024
13.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Apr 20, 2015, 15:20
13.
Re: Out of the Blue Apr 20, 2015, 15:20
Apr 20, 2015, 15:20
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Apr 20, 2015, 14:56:
$120 million? What is that, like 3 tanks?

Wow, only $8.28 M per according to Wiki -- so 14 tanks.

It's wholly indicative of the overall problem. Like when they waste 5 billion on crap like the Crusader artillery program. Or 140 million for a fighter jet that'll never be used. The list goes on and on. You're talking about $650 billion per year for shit you don't need. And that's just the operational stuff, not even the black budgets which are known but also flow into the the 10s of billions. And the 100s of billions for Intel and federal police agencies. Last count you had about 26'ish of them all overlapping each other. Basically you're wasting a trillion dollars a year on shit you don't need. Now, try going without water for a few days and see how that works out for you.
"Van Gogh painted alone and in despair and in madness and sold one picture in his entire life. Millions struggled alone, unrecognized, and struggled as heroically as any famous hero. Was it worthless? I knew it wasn't."
12.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Apr 20, 2015, 15:07
12.
Re: Out of the Blue Apr 20, 2015, 15:07
Apr 20, 2015, 15:07
 
When you consider the two water supply tunnels for New York City are big enough to drive a truck through -- yeah, a 4 ft diameter water pipe for California isn't even close to enough.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
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