Into the Black

Link of the Day: Fahrenheit Is a Better Temperature Scale Than Celsius. I've made the same point myself. Thanks HARDOCP.
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33.
 
Re: Into the Black
Mar 18, 2015, 07:09
Jivaro
 
33.
Re: Into the Black Mar 18, 2015, 07:09
Mar 18, 2015, 07:09
 Jivaro
 
Celsius/Kelvin, the Metric system instead of "standard", using 24 hour time and getting rid of AM/PM...

It's enough that I have keep track of languages, currencies, laws, etc every time I cross a border while travelling. I would prefer if the world used the same systems for all the various measurements.

It's a simple man's argument...but I am pretty simple.
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32.
 
Re: Into the Black
Mar 17, 2015, 18:35
32.
Re: Into the Black Mar 17, 2015, 18:35
Mar 17, 2015, 18:35
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Mar 17, 2015, 14:50:
And I think I could live with -40°C .. but definitely not with +40°C You ever experienced 100% humidity after a summer rain?

It gets above 40 degrees C (104F) fairly often here in the summer. We had 45 straight days of 100F+ in the summer of 2012. Yes, it's miserable, but you do eventually get used to it. (I'd hate to live without AC in it, though...)

I don't know that -40 C would ever be something a human body could get used to. I prefer being cold to hot as well, but to a certain point. - 40 is just agonizing.
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31.
 
Re: Into the Black
Mar 17, 2015, 18:31
31.
Re: Into the Black Mar 17, 2015, 18:31
Mar 17, 2015, 18:31
 
Bodolza wrote on Mar 17, 2015, 12:41:
Both F and C are base-10.

I was referring to the non-use of the metric system in the US, not specifically Fahrenheit.

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30.
 
Re: Into the Black
Mar 17, 2015, 14:50
30.
Re: Into the Black Mar 17, 2015, 14:50
Mar 17, 2015, 14:50
 
ItBurn wrote on Mar 17, 2015, 09:09:
Pigeon wrote on Mar 17, 2015, 08:41:
eRe4s3r wrote on Mar 17, 2015, 06:10:
I like how in your table you did not look at odd numbers, like 17°C which you can't easily convert to F at all. ;p

This entire topic not once mentioned Kelvin or eV (sad)

Also I like Celsius for day to day use.. I can't tell the difference between 22.4°C or 22.1°C so what would I need more precision with Fahrenheit for?

Ps.: "acceptable" climate also easily defined with °C -40 to +40 everything beyond those temps or below those temps is ugly

Where do you live that you'd consider -40°C acceptable climate, Hoth?

I wouldn't say it's acceptable, but having lived it several times, it seems like the lowest that humans can withstand without totally freaking the hell out. Well, most people flip the hell out at -10, but I mean, non-wuss people would flip at -40 instead :p This kind of weather will happen a couple of days during winter in Canada.

Exactly If you ever experienced -40°C you have a completely new appreciation of what cold actually feels like. For me that happened when I made vacation in Finland, that was very memorable... also in retrospective a really bad idea by my parents

And I think I could live with -40°C .. but definitely not with +40°C You ever experienced 100% humidity after a summer rain? That was the most horrid experience of my life. It was in Germany August 2003, day temp 36°C (in shadow!) zero wind 100% humidity after lightning storm with a bit of rain in the early morning. Now that is how hell feels like.

I think our definitions of "acceptable" depend on what you experienced in your life. And I much prefer the cold. You can always dress better and more, no matter how you look, but you can never dress *less* once you are naked

Interested to hear what others find acceptable
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29.
 
Re: Into the Black
Mar 17, 2015, 14:03
29.
Re: Into the Black Mar 17, 2015, 14:03
Mar 17, 2015, 14:03
 
http://www.wikihow.com/Count-How-Many-Fingers-You-Have

Through marvelous feats of extrapolation and quite a bit of irrelevance, I've drawn the conclusion that people who count a thumb as a finger will prefer Celsius. Those who don't like to count the thumb will want to use Fahrenheit. And there we have it ...
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28.
 
Re: Into the Black
Mar 17, 2015, 13:06
28.
Re: Into the Black Mar 17, 2015, 13:06
Mar 17, 2015, 13:06
 
Bodolza wrote on Mar 17, 2015, 12:41:
Since I'm a human, and not a pot of water, I prefer the F scale.

Nah; I'm fairly well convinced that the major determining factor for people's temperature preferences is just what they grew up with. Both sides have justifications about the temperature of water or the human body, or the intuitiveness of 0 to 100, but for temperature it hardly matters. Unlike distance or mass or what have you, most people hardly ever multiply or add temperature units. All you do is take a reading, and outside something totally absurd like a scale from 1 to 3.39 I think people can get used to any system and then they're set for life.
27.
 
Re: Into the Black
Mar 17, 2015, 12:41
27.
Re: Into the Black Mar 17, 2015, 12:41
Mar 17, 2015, 12:41
 
Creston wrote on Mar 17, 2015, 11:55:
F is a fucking stupid system, as is literally every other unit of measure used in the US. We are a base-10 species. Not using base-10 as your default units in everything is retarded.

Both F and C are base-10. The only difference is what sets the range. In Celsius, 100 is the boiling point of water. In Fahrenheit it's the temperature of the human body (which they missed by a bit).

Since I'm a human, and not a pot of water, I prefer the F scale.
26.
 
Re: Into the Black
Mar 17, 2015, 12:38
26.
Re: Into the Black Mar 17, 2015, 12:38
Mar 17, 2015, 12:38
 
Unless you were going to add discrete characters to represent the values of 10 and 11, it wouldn't make much sense to do anything outside of the base10 system.
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25.
 
Re: Into the Black
Mar 17, 2015, 12:30
25.
Re: Into the Black Mar 17, 2015, 12:30
Mar 17, 2015, 12:30
 
ItBurn wrote on Mar 17, 2015, 12:01:
I wouldn't say we're a base 10 species. That's indeed the base that most people are familiar with when doing maths though. There are strong arguments for base 12.

I concur that there are some good arguments for base-12/duodecimal, but I don't think you can explain those arguments to a child. Every child has to learn rudimentary counting and math skills by using his/her fingers. That gets you set in base-10 math, and from then on it's just easier to keep using that.

Yes, mathematicians go "You can teach this to a child! It makes so much more sense! Just use 4 fingers and 3 parts per finger!"

Yeah, good luck explaining that to a 2 or 3 year old.

I also don't hold to the idea that "base 12 is just as easy to calculate in!" Sure, in small amounts it is. I can figure out how many quarters or halves or thirds there are in 2 dozen pretty quickly.

Now, quick. How many thirds are there in 24 dozen? How many quarters in 258 dozen?

In base ten, it's just a shift of the decimal point. How many centimeters in 258 meters? 25800.



This comment was edited on Mar 17, 2015, 12:39.
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24.
 
Re: Into the Black
Mar 17, 2015, 12:12
24.
Re: Into the Black Mar 17, 2015, 12:12
Mar 17, 2015, 12:12
 
descender wrote on Mar 17, 2015, 12:01:
Can you count out those arguments on your fingers for me ItBurn?

In the article I read they actually tackled that finger argument and proposed an equally easy way to count. But yeah, we're definitely counting on our fingers by default. I guess what I should have said is that base 12 would be easier to do maths with for us. It's been a long time since I read the article and I'm not sure I could find it.
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23.
 
Re: Into the Black
Mar 17, 2015, 12:01
23.
Re: Into the Black Mar 17, 2015, 12:01
Mar 17, 2015, 12:01
 
Can you count out those arguments on your fingers for me ItBurn?
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22.
 
Re: Into the Black
Mar 17, 2015, 12:01
22.
Re: Into the Black Mar 17, 2015, 12:01
Mar 17, 2015, 12:01
 
Creston wrote on Mar 17, 2015, 11:55:
Pigeon wrote on Mar 16, 2015, 20:24:
Interesting argument, but I've always figured people would know what temperatures meet their comfort/discomfort zone based on what they're familiar with. If someone told me it was 34C out I wouldn't know what that meant, but if they said its 93F I'd know it was shorts and t-shirt time. Anyone that has used both extensively have a preference?

I grew up with C, and now use F because I live in the US, and I always have to calculate it back to C before I really know how hot/cold it really is outside.

I can do this in the span of like .5 seconds, but I can never figure out the relative temperature just from the F reading.

In any case, at 0 degrees celsius water freezes, and at 100 degrees C water boils. What are the 0 and 100 points in F for? Oh, that's right, nothing.

F is a fucking stupid system, as is literally every other unit of measure used in the US. We are a base-10 species. Not using base-10 as your default units in everything is retarded.

I wouldn't say we're a base 10 species. That's indeed the base that most people are familiar with when doing maths though. There are strong arguments for base 12.
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21.
 
Re: Into the Black
Mar 17, 2015, 11:55
21.
Re: Into the Black Mar 17, 2015, 11:55
Mar 17, 2015, 11:55
 
Pigeon wrote on Mar 16, 2015, 20:24:
Interesting argument, but I've always figured people would know what temperatures meet their comfort/discomfort zone based on what they're familiar with. If someone told me it was 34C out I wouldn't know what that meant, but if they said its 93F I'd know it was shorts and t-shirt time. Anyone that has used both extensively have a preference?

I grew up with C, and now use F because I live in the US, and I always have to calculate it back to C before I really know how hot/cold it really is outside.

I can do this in the span of like .5 seconds, but I can never figure out the relative temperature just from the F reading.

In any case, at 0 degrees celsius water freezes, and at 100 degrees C water boils. What are the 0 and 100 points in F for? Oh, that's right, nothing.

F is a fucking stupid system, as is literally every other unit of measure used in the US. We are a base-10 species. Not using base-10 as your default units in everything is retarded.
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20.
 
Re: Into the Black
Mar 17, 2015, 10:18
20.
Re: Into the Black Mar 17, 2015, 10:18
Mar 17, 2015, 10:18
 
Cutter wrote on Mar 16, 2015, 21:48:
Oh for god sake, America! You're the last and only friggin country on the planet that doesn't use the metric system. It's really not that hard. Get with the program already! At this point you're like that weird, smelly new kid at school who has to eat alone in the cafeteria.

The first two nodes of what would become the ARPANET were interconnected between Leonard Kleinrock's Network Measurement Center at the UCLA's School of Engineering and Applied Science and Douglas Engelbart's NLS system at SRI International (SRI) in Menlo Park, California, on 29 October 1969. The third site on the ARPANET was the Culler-Fried Interactive Mathematics center at the University of California at Santa Barbara, and the fourth was the University of Utah Graphics Department. In an early sign of future growth, there were already fifteen sites connected to the young ARPANET by the end of 1971. These early years were documented in the 1972 film Computer Networks: The Heralds of Resource Sharing.

Early international collaborations on the ARPANET were rare. European developers were concerned with developing the X.25 networks. Notable exceptions were the Norwegian Seismic Array (NORSAR) in June 1973, followed in 1973 by Sweden with satellite links to the Tanum Earth Station and Peter T. Kirstein's research group in the UK, initially at the Institute of Computer Science, University of London and later at University College London.

In December 1974, RFC 675 – Specification of Internet Transmission Control Program, by Vinton Cerf, Yogen Dalal, and Carl Sunshine, used the term internet as a shorthand for internetworking and later RFCs repeat this use. Access to the ARPANET was expanded in 1981 when the National Science Foundation (NSF) developed the Computer Science Network (CSNET). In 1982, the Internet Protocol Suite (TCP/IP) was standardized and the concept of a world-wide network of fully interconnected TCP/IP networks called the Internet was introduced.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet#History

This comment was edited on Mar 17, 2015, 10:26.
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19.
 
Re: Into the Black
Mar 17, 2015, 10:08
19.
Re: Into the Black Mar 17, 2015, 10:08
Mar 17, 2015, 10:08
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Mar 17, 2015, 10:02:
Here's where my brain does the differentiation:

Farenheit
"100 degrees? Holy shit, break out the shorts, t-shirt and crank up the AC!"

Forced conversion to Celsius:
"38 degrees? Probably need to wear a coat."

Here in the States, we're just so canalized in to thinking in terms of Fahrenheit that it'll never change because it becomes an emotional reaction based on the level of discomfort.

Also, in reverse, it sounds silly:

"Dude! I'm doing 120 km/h!"
"You're doing 75 mph, Bill. Big fucking deal."

I don't think it's because of that kind of emotion. I think that it's what you were born with, so that's what you prefer. Another thing is that the US is somewhat arrogant and thinks that it's better than everyone. Changing to a different system would mean that the US isn't perfect and that'll never happen. Like, f-you, I do what I want, 'MERICA! I didn't mean to offend anyone. I really think it's that way in an objective fashion.
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18.
 
Re: Into the Black
Mar 17, 2015, 10:02
18.
Re: Into the Black Mar 17, 2015, 10:02
Mar 17, 2015, 10:02
 
Here's where my brain does the differentiation:

Farenheit
"100 degrees? Holy shit, break out the shorts, t-shirt and crank up the AC!"

Forced conversion to Celsius:
"38 degrees? Probably need to wear a coat."

Here in the States, we're just so canalized in to thinking in terms of Fahrenheit that it'll never change because it becomes an emotional reaction based on the level of discomfort.

Also, in reverse, it sounds silly:

"Dude! I'm doing 120 km/h!"
"You're doing 75 mph, Bill. Big fucking deal."
"Just take a look around you, what do you see? Pain, suffering, and misery." -Black Sabbath, Killing Yourself to Live.

“Man was born free, and he is everywhere in chains” -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
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17.
 
Re: Into the Black
Mar 17, 2015, 09:20
17.
Re: Into the Black Mar 17, 2015, 09:20
Mar 17, 2015, 09:20
 
RoboNerd wrote on Mar 16, 2015, 22:54:
Cutter wrote on Mar 16, 2015, 21:48:
Oh for god sake, America! You're the last and only friggin country on the planet that doesn't use the metric system. It's really not that hard. Get with the program already! At this point you're like that weird, smelly new kid at school who has to eat alone in the cafeteria.

Or maybe we are the weird, smelly new kid that can beat up everyone else in school and then eat their lunch? Trollbashing

No. That's the problem. You see yourself as some musclebound goon kicking sand in everyone's faces at the beach, but the reality is you're the weird fat smelly kid in the cafeteria.
"Van Gogh painted alone and in despair and in madness and sold one picture in his entire life. Millions struggled alone, unrecognized, and struggled as heroically as any famous hero. Was it worthless? I knew it wasn't."
16.
 
Re: Into the Black
Mar 17, 2015, 09:17
16.
Re: Into the Black Mar 17, 2015, 09:17
Mar 17, 2015, 09:17
 
ItBurn wrote on Mar 17, 2015, 06:08:
I'm sorry, but I'll have to class this article as "wrong". Celcius is still much better for air temperature. It's so easy. Over 0, not so cold. Under 0, cold. Maybe it's because I live in Canada and we go from -30 to +30 celcius, covering the range more equally than someone who lives in California and doesn't understand why minus temperatures would exist.

Exactly right! It's not rocket surgery. It's one of the many reasons the rest of the planet is metric.
"Van Gogh painted alone and in despair and in madness and sold one picture in his entire life. Millions struggled alone, unrecognized, and struggled as heroically as any famous hero. Was it worthless? I knew it wasn't."
15.
 
Re: Into the Black
Mar 17, 2015, 09:09
15.
Re: Into the Black Mar 17, 2015, 09:09
Mar 17, 2015, 09:09
 
Pigeon wrote on Mar 17, 2015, 08:41:
eRe4s3r wrote on Mar 17, 2015, 06:10:
I like how in your table you did not look at odd numbers, like 17°C which you can't easily convert to F at all. ;p

This entire topic not once mentioned Kelvin or eV (sad)

Also I like Celsius for day to day use.. I can't tell the difference between 22.4°C or 22.1°C so what would I need more precision with Fahrenheit for?

Ps.: "acceptable" climate also easily defined with °C -40 to +40 everything beyond those temps or below those temps is ugly

Where do you live that you'd consider -40°C acceptable climate, Hoth?

I wouldn't say it's acceptable, but having lived it several times, it seems like the lowest that humans can withstand without totally freaking the hell out. Well, most people flip the hell out at -10, but I mean, non-wuss people would flip at -40 instead :p This kind of weather will happen a couple of days during winter in Canada.
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14.
 
Re: Into the Black
Mar 17, 2015, 08:41
14.
Re: Into the Black Mar 17, 2015, 08:41
Mar 17, 2015, 08:41
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Mar 17, 2015, 06:10:
I like how in your table you did not look at odd numbers, like 17°C which you can't easily convert to F at all. ;p

This entire topic not once mentioned Kelvin or eV (sad)

Also I like Celsius for day to day use.. I can't tell the difference between 22.4°C or 22.1°C so what would I need more precision with Fahrenheit for?

Ps.: "acceptable" climate also easily defined with °C -40 to +40 everything beyond those temps or below those temps is ugly

Where do you live that you'd consider -40°C acceptable climate, Hoth?
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