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26.
 
Re: Evening Legal Briefs
Mar 11, 2015, 22:48
26.
Re: Evening Legal Briefs Mar 11, 2015, 22:48
Mar 11, 2015, 22:48
 
jdreyer wrote on Mar 11, 2015, 20:18:
Orogogus wrote on Mar 11, 2015, 14:39:
He didn't say left wing, did he?

Huh, completely misread that.

No worries... left wing or right wing. No matter. These are just key words used by the media and people in power to set off certain types of people. To get them to tune in. Same as some idiot using racial slurs and saying idiotic things to other plays on X-Box Live. We all have are triggers and people will use them against you if you let them. Very few people are just stone cold and don't let anything get to them. Racism/Stupidity is part of the human condition. Every single human being on this planet could be of one color and we would still have issues. There is no way around it. A percentage of the populous would hate the other because their hair/height/weight/whatever. Understanding that is important. Being intelligent enough or educated enough to get over it is the problem. Most people who let these things effect them are having other issues and that racial slur is just the chink in their armor used to get under their skin.

As far as the excessive force and bad cops go my way of thinking is this... it has always been there. We just see far too much of it as of late because the population continues to soar and of course there are more police to help maintain peace. So naturally there are more incidents and more bad cops. Maybe I am over simplifying it but one thing is for sure... the media is on a roll with the witch hunting.


Are you not entertained?
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25.
 
Re: Evening Legal Briefs
Mar 11, 2015, 20:18
25.
Re: Evening Legal Briefs Mar 11, 2015, 20:18
Mar 11, 2015, 20:18
 
Orogogus wrote on Mar 11, 2015, 14:39:
He didn't say left wing, did he?

Huh, completely misread that.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
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24.
 
Re: Evening Legal Briefs
Mar 11, 2015, 18:29
24.
Re: Evening Legal Briefs Mar 11, 2015, 18:29
Mar 11, 2015, 18:29
 
Middle ground: Most cops are great. Some cops are terrible. Both types make mistakes. The system can encourage these mistakes inadvertently and too many people feel criticism of part of the system is calling the whole thing and everyone involved bad.

Actually, wow, that goes for a lot. But man do I hate how saying a shooting shouldn't have happened translates to some people as "all cops are bastards."
23.
 
Re: Evening Legal Briefs
Mar 11, 2015, 18:01
23.
Re: Evening Legal Briefs Mar 11, 2015, 18:01
Mar 11, 2015, 18:01
 
Cutter wrote on Mar 11, 2015, 09:47:
Paranoid Jack wrote on Mar 10, 2015, 23:36:
/rant on/
Every time I read comments like Cutter's I'm glad I turned down my chance to be a CHP. I know any position policing the street is far from easy. In todays society the police are automatically guilty until proven innocent. Even after being proven innocent by actual evidence in a court of law... millions will continue to believe the sound-bite that was a full on lie and will still call for the cops head on a spike for months if not years after proven innocent. Those same people screaming racism refused to see how hypocritical they are. I'm sick of the race card being the first or second card played every damn time somebody doesn't get their way. Can't win an argument play the card.

Oh so you feel cops should be entitled to murder unarmed people whenever they want? You think there aren't issues with race and policing? Some of the responses here are so typical extremist right-wing, knee jerk bullshit. Most cops spend most of their time in anything but danger or anywhere close to it. Unless you think writing tickets and watching road crews work is dangerous. The only self-entitlement going on here is on their side, 'Oh it's such a hard job, people don't understand.' Again. QUIT! No one asked you to do it. You aren't owed anything.

And why do people need to call the cops to begin with? They're not allowed to defend themselves. They're forced into a position of being reliant on the state so you can't blame for that. And if and when they show up it's already after the fact by then. Ever had anything stolen before? Good luck in ever getting back. Maybe they should be looking for stolen shit and skipping the tickets. Society doesn't need glorified ticket writers making 100k a year - no wonder they have to write so many.

People are just tired of cops not being accountable. That there are two sets of rules one for them and one for us. I've worked events for cops before where the fucking Captain has given me his card saying if I get stopped at a DUI checkpoint just show that to them and they'll wave you right through. I see cops constantly breaking the law in small ways they make other people pay for. Obviously that's the sort of shit that grates on people. I worked the G20 and it was very clear there that "serve and protect" only applies to the rich and big business as the illegal mass-arrests at those events always prove.

Once they start actually abiding by the laws themselves, stop needlessly bullying people, stop needlessly murdering people, then they won't face any of those issues. They bring this on themselves.

Contrary to how it sounds, I don't hate cops but there are far too many bad ones out there and that needs to change, but again, the cops themselves won't allow that, again which is probably the largest part of the problem. The thin blue line is protecting the wrong people. And if you're not for the people, why should they be for you?

LMAO, sorry. Cutter, do you ever read what you're typing before hitting the post button? You have a tendency to read into posts things that are not being said. Not to mention going off the deep end. At work waiting for a crazy to approach me. Hopefully I will remember to respond later not that there is a response for some of your rant. I'm just trying to figure out where you're coming from. Had a lot of bad experiences with police? I don't want to but have to assume you watch way too much TV news/entertainment programs or maybe anti authority video channels on YouTube.
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22.
 
Re: Evening Legal Briefs
Mar 11, 2015, 15:06
22.
Re: Evening Legal Briefs Mar 11, 2015, 15:06
Mar 11, 2015, 15:06
 
xXBatmanXx wrote on Mar 11, 2015, 14:41:
InBlack wrote on Mar 11, 2015, 03:27:
xXBatmanXx wrote on Mar 10, 2015, 20:57:
We are fighting a war on the street.

I know its a figure of speech but this is disturbing. If policemen feel they are in danger 24/7 they are much more likely to use excessive force.

I wish I could enlighten you - I just can't. Sorry. You can clip and snip all you want, but the whole post goes together, not just this one line.

Even in context that line isn't reassuring though and it just seems like you're dodging it. War is a word with meaning to many people, I'd be careful in how you use it as it just bolsters people like Cutter. I think you can tell by my earlier comments that I'm not anti-police or something but your words were a bit troubling without some explanation.

JD already said it best, missed his post.

This comment was edited on Mar 11, 2015, 15:15.
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21.
 
Re: Evening Legal Briefs
Mar 11, 2015, 14:41
21.
Re: Evening Legal Briefs Mar 11, 2015, 14:41
Mar 11, 2015, 14:41
 
InBlack wrote on Mar 11, 2015, 03:27:
xXBatmanXx wrote on Mar 10, 2015, 20:57:
We are fighting a war on the street.

I know its a figure of speech but this is disturbing. If policemen feel they are in danger 24/7 they are much more likely to use excessive force.

I wish I could enlighten you - I just can't. Sorry. You can clip and snip all you want, but the whole post goes together, not just this one line.
20.
 
Re: Evening Legal Briefs
Mar 11, 2015, 14:39
20.
Re: Evening Legal Briefs Mar 11, 2015, 14:39
Mar 11, 2015, 14:39
 
He didn't say left wing, did he?
19.
 
Re: Evening Legal Briefs
Mar 11, 2015, 14:25
19.
Re: Evening Legal Briefs Mar 11, 2015, 14:25
Mar 11, 2015, 14:25
 
InBlack wrote on Mar 11, 2015, 10:20:
Verno wrote on Mar 11, 2015, 10:07:
Right wing isn't a pejorative no matter how much you want it to be.

Right or wrong when I think of 'right-wing' the associations that spring to mind are not the nicests of kinds. All throughout history in the west, those on the 'right' side of politics always represented a very dehumanising force. For the life of me I can't think of a single right-wing politician that I liked, except for Putin maybe. And even though he is likeable, he is a downright evil bastard.

P.S. Sorry for off-topic.

Putin is hardly a left-wing politician. He is the epitome of right wing: supported by monied interests, authoritarian, conservative. It's like saying the Nazis were left wing because they have the word "Socialist" in their moniker.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
Avatar 22024
18.
 
Re: Evening Legal Briefs
Mar 11, 2015, 14:15
18.
Re: Evening Legal Briefs Mar 11, 2015, 14:15
Mar 11, 2015, 14:15
 
xXBatmanXx wrote on Mar 10, 2015, 20:57:
Has nothing to do with admission or hiring. It has to do with training. It is sad to me that people that would be, or are great cops, get very sub standard training.

I and many of my partners have been in situations where we had every right to pull the trigger and we didn't.

Whats the diff? Training, preparation, repetition, reinforcement, review, and more training.

What I don't get, is why there isn't some sort of federal code of conduct for Law Enforcement?

Goes by State. Here in MN it is the POST BOARD, they hold my license.

Makes me sad to see anti police remarks. We are fighting a war on the street. Anyone who thinks different lives in a bubble. I don't even work in Minneapolis, but all of the bad guys live where I work. That being said, I know and meet a lot of really good people everyday - but the majority of my interaction with the public is fielding calls and dealing with bad guys.
I love you Bats, you seem like one of the good guys: out there doing the job, thoughtful, working hard, being fair, upholding the law. But when you say "we are fighting a war" that's the exact kind of phrasing that leads to things like Ferguson and the man shot in Pasco. Policing is never war, nor should it ever be thought of that way. Who is the enemy? Are they well armed, attacking the police department with organized platoons of soldiers, trying to kill you daily?

When the term "war" is used by the police, then it becomes the police vs. society, and everyone is the "enemy." And the police overreact, and we have incidents like deaths during no-knock raids (a military tactic) of both innocent civilians and police because they had the wrong address. When former soldiers comment that their RoE were stricter in Fallujah than what they see in Ferguson, something is very wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I am pro-police. My best friend from high school is a townie, and my daughter's friend from birth's father is a state trooper. These are people I've known and trusted for decades. As you say, it's training. The US also has a unique wrench: the 2nd amendment. No other country has the number of guns we do. All that being said, we are bombarded with report after report of police shooting unarmed people, or minimally armed people (he has a knife! says a police officer from 30' away before shooting). Something has to change.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
Avatar 22024
17.
 
Re: Evening Legal Briefs
Mar 11, 2015, 10:20
17.
Re: Evening Legal Briefs Mar 11, 2015, 10:20
Mar 11, 2015, 10:20
 
Verno wrote on Mar 11, 2015, 10:07:
Right wing isn't a pejorative no matter how much you want it to be.

Right or wrong when I think of 'right-wing' the associations that spring to mind are not the nicests of kinds. All throughout history in the west, those on the 'right' side of politics always represented a very dehumanising force. For the life of me I can't think of a single right-wing politician that I liked, except for Putin maybe. And even though he is likeable, he is a downright evil bastard.

P.S. Sorry for off-topic.
I have a nifty blue line!
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16.
 
Re: Evening Legal Briefs
Mar 11, 2015, 10:07
16.
Re: Evening Legal Briefs Mar 11, 2015, 10:07
Mar 11, 2015, 10:07
 
Right wing isn't a pejorative no matter how much you want it to be. If you don't want to be dismissed out of hand then you need to be more mature and realize that there are opinions other than yours out there, insulting them just polarizes things even more.

To the topic itself I don't necessarily with some of the things you said but this is wrong:

And why do people need to call the cops to begin with? They're not allowed to defend themselves.

Yes you are allowed to defend yourself, don't be absurd. The reality is that most people do not want to defend themselves, that's why we live in a society where people assume defined roles and share communities. Police are absolutely desired by the general populace, its just an easy target for people to grumble about. Have you ever worked a job where you are never praised or recognized except for extraordinary events but your mistakes are heavily scrutinized? One that combines life and death situations with judgment calls that go above and beyond what most people have to make in their entire life? Decisions that have to be made in a split second while you fear for your life or the lives of others?

Maybe have an iota of empathy for policemen. There are bad cops out there but you take the good with the bad like everything else in society. Expecting cops to be perfect is ridiculous and for the most part I thinks cops are held accountable for their actions. The media doesn't like to focus on the routine layoff and firing of police for various reasons including disciplinary actions unless it accompanies a big social issue, its not a sexy story.
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15.
 
Re: Evening Legal Briefs
Mar 11, 2015, 09:47
15.
Re: Evening Legal Briefs Mar 11, 2015, 09:47
Mar 11, 2015, 09:47
 
Paranoid Jack wrote on Mar 10, 2015, 23:36:
/rant on/
Every time I read comments like Cutter's I'm glad I turned down my chance to be a CHP. I know any position policing the street is far from easy. In todays society the police are automatically guilty until proven innocent. Even after being proven innocent by actual evidence in a court of law... millions will continue to believe the sound-bite that was a full on lie and will still call for the cops head on a spike for months if not years after proven innocent. Those same people screaming racism refused to see how hypocritical they are. I'm sick of the race card being the first or second card played every damn time somebody doesn't get their way. Can't win an argument play the card.

Oh so you feel cops should be entitled to murder unarmed people whenever they want? You think there aren't issues with race and policing? Some of the responses here are so typical extremist right-wing, knee jerk bullshit. Most cops spend most of their time in anything but danger or anywhere close to it. Unless you think writing tickets and watching road crews work is dangerous. The only self-entitlement going on here is on their side, 'Oh it's such a hard job, people don't understand.' Again. QUIT! No one asked you to do it. You aren't owed anything.

And why do people need to call the cops to begin with? They're not allowed to defend themselves. They're forced into a position of being reliant on the state so you can't blame for that. And if and when they show up it's already after the fact by then. Ever had anything stolen before? Good luck in ever getting back. Maybe they should be looking for stolen shit and skipping the tickets. Society doesn't need glorified ticket writers making 100k a year - no wonder they have to write so many.

People are just tired of cops not being accountable. That there are two sets of rules one for them and one for us. I've worked events for cops before where the fucking Captain has given me his card saying if I get stopped at a DUI checkpoint just show that to them and they'll wave you right through. I see cops constantly breaking the law in small ways they make other people pay for. Obviously that's the sort of shit that grates on people. I worked the G20 and it was very clear there that "serve and protect" only applies to the rich and big business as the illegal mass-arrests at those events always prove.

Once they start actually abiding by the laws themselves, stop needlessly bullying people, stop needlessly murdering people, then they won't face any of those issues. They bring this on themselves.

Contrary to how it sounds, I don't hate cops but there are far too many bad ones out there and that needs to change, but again, the cops themselves won't allow that, again which is probably the largest part of the problem. The thin blue line is protecting the wrong people. And if you're not for the people, why should they be for you?
"Van Gogh painted alone and in despair and in madness and sold one picture in his entire life. Millions struggled alone, unrecognized, and struggled as heroically as any famous hero. Was it worthless? I knew it wasn't."
14.
 
Re: Evening Legal Briefs
Mar 11, 2015, 07:15
14.
Re: Evening Legal Briefs Mar 11, 2015, 07:15
Mar 11, 2015, 07:15
 
xXBatmanXx wrote on Mar 10, 2015, 20:57:
We are fighting a war on the street.

What makes you see it this way? I'm not sure if that's just a figure of speech or if you mean it literally. I have a friend who is a grief counselor, she works with cops a lot and tells me that she sees a lot of them that develop an 'us vs them, good guys vs bad guys' mentality on the job due to their experiences.
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13.
 
Re: Evening Legal Briefs
Mar 11, 2015, 07:10
13.
Re: Evening Legal Briefs Mar 11, 2015, 07:10
Mar 11, 2015, 07:10
 
InBlack wrote on Mar 11, 2015, 03:27:
xXBatmanXx wrote on Mar 10, 2015, 20:57:
We are fighting a war on the street.

I know its a figure of speech but this is disturbing. If policemen feel they are in danger 24/7 they are much more likely to use excessive force.

That is a big part of the problem.

With so many cameras around and more incidents being reported everyone are more paranoid then they should be. It's a hard job. Most officers are good people who do their jobs well, but when a mistake is made they try hard to deny anything is wrong, and are now loosing the trust of the public.

The cops in this video will most likely just get a slap on the wrist unless the Feds step in. This incident happened last month. Last I heard the police officers involved still hadn't been interviewed. And now the county coroner is being accused of giving an inaccurate autopsy.

The cops may go unpunished for the unjustified shooting, but the witness who uploaded the video to youtube will be fired from his city job for refusing to give his phone to the police without a warrant.

The victim was a mentally unstable repeat offender convicted of assaulting police officers, and was in this country illegally. He wasn't fighting a war, or trying to kill the police. He was just a crazy guy who wanted to die and threw a few rocks at cars and possibly one at an officer.

...
I still don't see how this incident has anything to do with race like many of the protesters were suggesting.
12.
 
Re: Evening Legal Briefs
Mar 11, 2015, 06:45
12.
Re: Evening Legal Briefs Mar 11, 2015, 06:45
Mar 11, 2015, 06:45
 
InBlack wrote on Mar 11, 2015, 03:27:
xXBatmanXx wrote on Mar 10, 2015, 20:57:
We are fighting a war on the street.

I know its a figure of speech but this is disturbing. If policemen feel they are in danger 24/7 they are much more likely to use excessive force.

Yeah, quotes like that don't exactly help with the public image of police as overly militarized bullies who see all non-cops as enemy combatants... You're not in Iraq, guys! Those people you're dealing with aren't enemy soldiers; they're citizens whose rights you're supposed to be protecting... Yes, even the "bad guys"...
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11.
 
Re: Evening Legal Briefs
Mar 11, 2015, 06:12
11.
Re: Evening Legal Briefs Mar 11, 2015, 06:12
Mar 11, 2015, 06:12
 
I gave up Law Enforcement and went into corporate private security. The pay is much better and I no longer have to worry about some shitheel sucker-punching me. My wife sleeps better at night, too.

To be honest thought, I decided it was time to get out when I caught myself growing more and more bitter and cynical. And I was getting tired of the hate. Both directed at me (for being a cop) and by my fellow cops. There are some fucked up people in Law Enforcement and I honestly didn't want to be part of that anymore.

Also, getting called a racist 24/7 was getting old, too.
Don't start anything you can't finish. Preferably to component atoms.
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10.
 
Re: Evening Legal Briefs
Mar 11, 2015, 03:27
10.
Re: Evening Legal Briefs Mar 11, 2015, 03:27
Mar 11, 2015, 03:27
 
xXBatmanXx wrote on Mar 10, 2015, 20:57:
We are fighting a war on the street.

I know its a figure of speech but this is disturbing. If policemen feel they are in danger 24/7 they are much more likely to use excessive force.
I have a nifty blue line!
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9.
 
removed
Mar 11, 2015, 02:32
9.
removed Mar 11, 2015, 02:32
Mar 11, 2015, 02:32
 
* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on Mar 11, 2015, 09:30.
"I hope those bastards get inoperable brain cancer that they have passed on to their children."
-RedEye9
8.
 
Re: Evening Legal Briefs
Mar 10, 2015, 23:36
8.
Re: Evening Legal Briefs Mar 10, 2015, 23:36
Mar 10, 2015, 23:36
 
First off thank you, xXBatmanXx, for your service. Although not in my community or even my state you are still serving. That is more than most of the general public in this Age of Entitlement. We all need to thank those who server more often, so thanks.

/rant on/
Every time I read comments like Cutter's I'm glad I turned down my chance to be a CHP. I know any position policing the street is far from easy. In todays society the police are automatically guilty until proven innocent. Even after being proven innocent by actual evidence in a court of law... millions will continue to believe the sound-bite that was a full on lie and will still call for the cops head on a spike for months if not years after proven innocent. Those same people screaming racism refused to see how hypocritical they are. I'm sick of the race card being the first or second card played every damn time somebody doesn't get their way. Can't win an argument play the card.

Crazy sad is when a person who attacks a police officer after trying to take his firearm then ends up shot is somehow now the victim in America. Even before that I've heard cops saying for years over and over again that we have lost control. It is true... and not just for the police. Our entire society.

My job requires me to pack a lunch or stop someplace to eat between jobs. People will see you sitting some place eating your lunch and automatically get their back up. Come to your window and confront you. Try to report you to the business office of the company you work for. Call the police and report you as a suspicious person in the neighborhood. Video tape you. Take pictures of you sitting in your fucking work truck eating your damn lunch. Why? Because they are fucking nuts. All of those things and worse have happen to me and I am just a tech working with a company logo on my vehicle. Don't even get me started on the drivers trying to get into an accident because they don't see a logo on the door they see dollar signs.

Now imagine being a cop working a beat wearing a uniform. Every crazy ass moron with something to prove is out to challenge you. And the media knows these incidents sell so they love them. What everyone forgets is there are thousands of police incidents daily that go down right. Thousands of nasty individuals are taken down or off the streets weekly... nobody complaining when the police are putting themselves in harms way to do that. So a crazy confronts authority and gets tazed or shot and the last few seconds of it are aired dozens of times. We can't see the minutes up to the shooting we just see the couple of seconds that sell. And then some fame junky wants their ten seconds of fame and lies about what they saw. Or declares it was racism or a hate crime. Next you have everybody and their brother showing up to join in. Making statements to the press and stirring the pot when they don't know jack shit about it except the lies recorded on the street from a supposed eyewitness that later testifies in court they didn't see anything... that they were just repeating what they had heard. But before we get to that point we have more innocent people being hurt and killed on the streets where millions of dollars of damage are done by people who traveled halfway across the country just to riot. Death threats to the officer(s) involved. Trial by media. Civil rights groups calling for blood. And somehow they are better than the person they are accusing and helping the public/media to find guilty before the evidence is even looked at?

Doesn't that shit sound a little bit like the Salem witch hunts?
/rant off/

I know there are bad cops. No doubt about it. I too see some of these videos and ask why didn't they use non lethal force? Still automatically stereotyping every police officer as a thug is just crazy talk. Sorry, my Irish Canadian Coffee got me on a roll....
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7.
 
Re: Evening Legal Briefs
Mar 10, 2015, 21:44
7.
Re: Evening Legal Briefs Mar 10, 2015, 21:44
Mar 10, 2015, 21:44
 
Cutter wrote on Mar 10, 2015, 21:29:
How are three cops executing an unarmed man in the street for throwing some rocks at their cruiser good guys in any way, shape, or form? Shit like that is insane. How can you expect anything but anti-police remarks and attitudes with stuff like this going on. And it is going on, far too much these days. And it's been going on forever . And 99% of the time those cops get away with it. When the police actually start policing their own and start holding their own accountable and being held accountable then you'll see public perception change, but not until then. Most cops I've met seem to have this attitude they're owed something. No one is forcing you to do the job. Don't like it? Quit and go do something else. You don't get any special treatment as far as I'm concerned. If anything you should be held to an even more exacting standard. If not, to hell with it, fire all the cops and let us all carry guns instead.

I think you have a chip on your shoulder and don't think a discussion would change that nor would we get anywhere - it is obvious you read INTO what I said and did not actually read what I posted. Sorry bud.
26 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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