Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy

A new Letter from the Chairman on the Roberts Space Industries website talks more about the future of Star Citizen now that they've stopped laying out additional stretch goals and talks to backers about their support of the project (for the record, the space combat game has now surpassed the $73 million mark). Chris Roberts also addresses a recent controversy within the game's community over "Rental Equipment Credits," a complicated system of equipment rentals for the game. There's an article criticizing this concept on Ten Ton Hammer that helps an outsider understand what's up with this system, and why this may raise concerns, saying: "you cannot earn REC and then purchase any items or equipment in Arena Commander right now or in this upcoming update permanently. You can, instead, earn REC to rent equipment and ships to try before you buy or, if you are committed enough, to keep playing with as long as you can continue to earn enough REC to pay the rental fee every 7 non-consecutive days of playing." In his post, Roberts acknowledges the controversy, though it's not certain how it will be dealt with:
Finally, I know that everyone is expecting me to talk more about Rental Equipment Credits. I took part in the heated discussion over the weekend and one of our priorities this week was clarifying some of the confusion about the system. I don’t have much to add right now, but I do want to stress: we asked for your feedback because we genuinely wanted it. A sincere thank you to everyone who provided that feedback. I’ll stress: we’re going to create a system that’s fun, not one that hurts players. Like everything else in Star Citizen, we will balance and expand our system to that goal once it launches until it meets our vision, and we will not settle for less.
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58.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 22, 2015, 00:44
58.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 22, 2015, 00:44
Feb 22, 2015, 00:44
 
Star citizen is probably going to pull an Uber with planetary annihilation when they announced an "offline mode", it still logs in to the server back end. It's all just marketing bullshit.

This comment was edited on Feb 22, 2015, 00:50.
57.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 21, 2015, 23:10
57.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 21, 2015, 23:10
Feb 21, 2015, 23:10
 
Flatline wrote on Feb 21, 2015, 22:42:
HorrorScope wrote on Feb 21, 2015, 21:17:
Julio wrote on Feb 21, 2015, 20:38:
{PH}88fingers wrote on Feb 21, 2015, 20:07:
yet everyone here is saying it is pay to win... ???

Although we've beaten the pay-to-win discussion to death, I'm interested in how buying a $1200 ship isn't paying to win. That ship will give an advantage to some players over others. Let's hear how it doesn't.


The game needs to come through with it's one promise. Player run servers. If it does P2W will mean nothing on them.

I don't see how player run servers are even feasible at this point.

Maybe if you have a server cluster it's doable, as in you rent some MS Azure or AWS servers and spin them up, but I have trouble imagining one consumer-grade computer running a full universe simulation, unknown planetary-side simulations, AND run FPS simulations- simultaneously.

I can see a minimum of one server for each along with maybe a master server that coordinates everything, with additional server spinning up for every X number of players. Not to mention the bandwidth required for that kind of server hosting- it'd be kind of a nightmare.

An expensive nightmare too... I am still only along for the ride for the SP portion.. the other persistent nonsense doesn't interest me.

And like you I see feature creep and it makes me wonder how this is even going to work. Squadron 42 is an entirely different game it seems, using systems that were developed for persistent world but offline in SP. And how is persistence even going to work with user hosted servers? I mean i can see how you could simulate FPS and ship battles in 1 "sector" at the same time, no problem. But what if there are 50 such battles across 50 sectors?

I think the more this game takes shape, the more people will realize that what they backed might not actually be what the this game ends up with. Let's hope SP is not that ;/

Fact is if player run servers are not possible to do there will be a giant shit storm coming. And there already seems to be confusion whether "player run servers" applies to the PU stuff, or just the simulator stuff (ie single missions or dogfights).

And to be honest, I don't see how this game is not going to be a giant clusterfuck on release anyway with these huge modules. And persistent universe crap already ruined 1 perfectly good game previously pure SP game (Elite Dangerous)
Avatar 54727
56.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 21, 2015, 23:05
56.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 21, 2015, 23:05
Feb 21, 2015, 23:05
 
Flatline wrote on Feb 21, 2015, 22:42:
HorrorScope wrote on Feb 21, 2015, 21:17:
Julio wrote on Feb 21, 2015, 20:38:
{PH}88fingers wrote on Feb 21, 2015, 20:07:
yet everyone here is saying it is pay to win... ???

Although we've beaten the pay-to-win discussion to death, I'm interested in how buying a $1200 ship isn't paying to win. That ship will give an advantage to some players over others. Let's hear how it doesn't.


The game needs to come through with it's one promise. Player run servers. If it does P2W will mean nothing on them.

I don't see how player run servers are even feasible at this point.

Maybe if you have a server cluster it's doable, as in you rent some MS Azure or AWS servers and spin them up, but I have trouble imagining one consumer-grade computer running a full universe simulation, unknown planetary-side simulations, AND run FPS simulations- simultaneously.

I can see a minimum of one server for each along with maybe a master server that coordinates everything, with additional server spinning up for every X number of players. Not to mention the bandwidth required for that kind of server hosting- it'd be kind of a nightmare.

If player run servers are off the table now (which I don't think they are) then this game has already failed me big time. So then I can start bashing without feeling an ounce of guilt.

Player Run Servers
Avatar 17232
55.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 21, 2015, 22:42
55.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 21, 2015, 22:42
Feb 21, 2015, 22:42
 
HorrorScope wrote on Feb 21, 2015, 21:17:
Julio wrote on Feb 21, 2015, 20:38:
{PH}88fingers wrote on Feb 21, 2015, 20:07:
yet everyone here is saying it is pay to win... ???

Although we've beaten the pay-to-win discussion to death, I'm interested in how buying a $1200 ship isn't paying to win. That ship will give an advantage to some players over others. Let's hear how it doesn't.


The game needs to come through with it's one promise. Player run servers. If it does P2W will mean nothing on them.

I don't see how player run servers are even feasible at this point.

Maybe if you have a server cluster it's doable, as in you rent some MS Azure or AWS servers and spin them up, but I have trouble imagining one consumer-grade computer running a full universe simulation, unknown planetary-side simulations, AND run FPS simulations- simultaneously.

I can see a minimum of one server for each along with maybe a master server that coordinates everything, with additional server spinning up for every X number of players. Not to mention the bandwidth required for that kind of server hosting- it'd be kind of a nightmare.
54.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 21, 2015, 22:35
54.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 21, 2015, 22:35
Feb 21, 2015, 22:35
 
StealthR6 wrote on Feb 21, 2015, 14:27:
I play AC every night and its the best space shooter out now, just like Freelancer was the best one 15 years ago and the Wing Commander/Privateer was the best in the early 90s.

Freespace 2 beat the *shit* out of Freelancer, which wasn't even particularly a space sim in the traditional sense.

Shit, go download the Freespace Open Source Project and plunk 5 bucks down on GOG.com for Freespace 2. It still holds up aside from some shitty missions in the nebula.

Then if you're feeling really interested, download diaspora, which does what SC wanted really bad to do with it's flight model, only for Battlestar Galactica, and see what a 15 year old engine with a few basic modifications is still capable of producing graphically.
53.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 21, 2015, 21:17
53.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 21, 2015, 21:17
Feb 21, 2015, 21:17
 
Julio wrote on Feb 21, 2015, 20:38:
{PH}88fingers wrote on Feb 21, 2015, 20:07:
yet everyone here is saying it is pay to win... ???

Although we've beaten the pay-to-win discussion to death, I'm interested in how buying a $1200 ship isn't paying to win. That ship will give an advantage to some players over others. Let's hear how it doesn't.


The game needs to come through with it's one promise. Player run servers. If it does P2W will mean nothing on them.
Avatar 17232
52.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 21, 2015, 20:51
52.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 21, 2015, 20:51
Feb 21, 2015, 20:51
 
Creston wrote on Feb 21, 2015, 19:29:
I actually like the idea of being able to rent something in game, but why does it need a separate currency? Why not just an xx price in regular credits? Making it a separate currency seems needlessly complicated for what seems to be zero benefit.

Maybe so that you can either buy REC outright, or grind for it? That's a pretty common mechanism in most free to play games. Which is probably the reason a lot of people are complaining. It's a F2P mechanism in what is ostensibly a for-pay game. Maybe I'm misunderstanding though. Can you buy REC?
To prevent CV-19, avoid the Serious Seven: weddings, funerals, faith-based activities, bars, gyms, house gatherings and other small events.
Avatar 22024
51.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 21, 2015, 20:38
51.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 21, 2015, 20:38
Feb 21, 2015, 20:38
 
{PH}88fingers wrote on Feb 21, 2015, 20:07:
yet everyone here is saying it is pay to win... ???

Although we've beaten the pay-to-win discussion to death, I'm interested in how buying a $1200 ship isn't paying to win. That ship will give an advantage to some players over others. Let's hear how it doesn't.
50.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 21, 2015, 20:07
50.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 21, 2015, 20:07
Feb 21, 2015, 20:07
 
so none of this shit you can earn, can affect the actual Persistence Universe, yet everyone here is saying it is pay to win... ???

here is a video for those interested in actually listening to how it is implemented now. And as they have repeated over and over, none of this is final, they will adapt to the good ideas from the backers, as they have been on the rest of Arena Commander.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaCo-XTDZfw
49.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 21, 2015, 19:50
49.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 21, 2015, 19:50
Feb 21, 2015, 19:50
 
Creston wrote on Feb 21, 2015, 19:29:
I actually like the idea of being able to rent something in game, but why does it need a separate currency? Why not just an xx price in regular credits? Making it a separate currency seems needlessly complicated for what seems to be zero benefit.

I actually like the idea of being able to rent something in game

It will end with :Buy credits for real Money , its not enough with DLC no no , jezz
48.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 21, 2015, 19:29
48.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 21, 2015, 19:29
Feb 21, 2015, 19:29
 
I actually like the idea of being able to rent something in game, but why does it need a separate currency? Why not just an xx price in regular credits? Making it a separate currency seems needlessly complicated for what seems to be zero benefit.
Avatar 15604
47.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 21, 2015, 18:52
47.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 21, 2015, 18:52
Feb 21, 2015, 18:52
 
jdreyer wrote on Feb 21, 2015, 17:06:
This is going to be yet another 100 comment SC thread, isn't it.

Popcorn

Of course it is.
You see. There are those that are following the project and are a bit more informed about the subject than the people creating this click bait articles.

David Piner has been critical of the project since the start.
Comments like this make his opinion quite clear

"Is it a bad thing? Well, to me it is, but looking at a broad perspective, it's very hard to define what is and isn't bad in Star Citizen"

Regarding REC the "issue" if there is one is simple.
CIG is implementing an unlock system in the alpha stage that is going to be used in the final game and it is doing it now because it allows anyone to access any ship in Arena Commander even if that ship is not part of the package they got when helping fund the project. Basically trying to kill two rabbits in a row.

While playing AC you get REC points. You can use REC to rent ships. The ships are not permanent but you can play the "rented" ship as much as you want for 7 days. You can use these days however you want. So you could play for 24h today and that would only count for one day. And play again in one month and that would only count as your second day.

Now why aren't Arena Commander unlocks permanent?
Because they want to avoid turning SC into an Arena Commander game so to speak. Goal is for people to earn ships and other content in the persistent universe. Not in the Arena Commander. So in the final game you'll be able to buy a ship in the persistent universe and it will be available in the Arena Combat modes.

The thing is this system also respects the "advantage" given to those that have spent more money funding the project or are long time backers.

Now obviously Ten Ton Hammer does not approve this.
Well Ten Ton Hammer claims he is looking towards the people interest. WRONG. If unlocks were permanent other members of the community would be complaining.

The REC system is not perfect. No system is. But it is a system that makes a lot more sense to implement in SC than permanent unlocks. And the controversy does not come from the community. it comes from sites like TTH.
46.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 21, 2015, 18:40
46.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 21, 2015, 18:40
Feb 21, 2015, 18:40
 
Rental equipment in a game...?

Can you rent a 20" spiked ass dildo, because it sounds like that's what this game is really about...
45.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 21, 2015, 18:15
45.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 21, 2015, 18:15
Feb 21, 2015, 18:15
 
Damn, this project is going to blow up into a massive scandal, isn't it? The writing is all over on the wall. What a shame.

This comment was edited on Feb 21, 2015, 18:32.
44.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 21, 2015, 18:13
44.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 21, 2015, 18:13
Feb 21, 2015, 18:13
 
As long as modding is still possible, that's all I care about. With a private server I could have all the ships I ever want, no microtransaction anything. If they get rid of modding or private servers though, then I'm out.
Avatar 37119
43.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 21, 2015, 17:35
43.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 21, 2015, 17:35
Feb 21, 2015, 17:35
 
Its a joke, it would take a team of 12 a year to fully flesh this thing out, let alone work on the rest of the 'game' you guys are in dream world..lol


CJ_Parker wrote on Feb 21, 2015, 17:11:
BadIronTree wrote:
New mining Platform/ship

I'm disgusted by the low, low price of $325 for this concept mining ship. They could really try a little harder to sell an even more unfinished and more expensive concept. I mean I want to feel special and not like a complete cheapskate here.
42.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 21, 2015, 17:34
42.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 21, 2015, 17:34
Feb 21, 2015, 17:34
 
grudgebearer wrote on Feb 21, 2015, 13:46:
Julian Delphiki wrote on Feb 21, 2015, 13:29:
shilling...shilling shilling shilling...shilling shilling.

Signed up on 2/21/2015, just to post in this thread. How much do you get paid to defend this hookers-and-blow for Chris Roberts scheme?

Yep - shill located.

StealthR6 wrote on Feb 21, 2015, 14:27:
I've never seen a bunch of crying little babies as I see on here...I bet all whiners on here are either console games who can't get SC or player who despise all space games.

Star Citizen is a game for those without gaming skill - a space sim with training wheels that you can buy. Some of us like space games and shockingly can afford both consoles and good PCs (probably because we're not giving our cash to Chris Roberts). This isn't a real space game, it's a pay-to-win turd.

We'll see who is right in 3500 years when it's done.
41.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 21, 2015, 17:22
41.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 21, 2015, 17:22
Feb 21, 2015, 17:22
 
jdreyer wrote on Feb 21, 2015, 17:06:
This is going to be yet another 100 comment SC thread, isn't it.

Popcorn

As long as freespace 2 has been mentioned, everything is all good. Toff
40.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 21, 2015, 17:11
40.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 21, 2015, 17:11
Feb 21, 2015, 17:11
 
BadIronTree wrote:
New mining Platform/ship

I'm disgusted by the low, low price of $325 for this concept mining ship. They could really try a little harder to sell an even more unfinished and more expensive concept. I mean I want to feel special and not like a complete cheapskate here.
39.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 21, 2015, 17:06
39.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 21, 2015, 17:06
Feb 21, 2015, 17:06
 
This is going to be yet another 100 comment SC thread, isn't it.

Popcorn
To prevent CV-19, avoid the Serious Seven: weddings, funerals, faith-based activities, bars, gyms, house gatherings and other small events.
Avatar 22024
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