Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy

A new Letter from the Chairman on the Roberts Space Industries website talks more about the future of Star Citizen now that they've stopped laying out additional stretch goals and talks to backers about their support of the project (for the record, the space combat game has now surpassed the $73 million mark). Chris Roberts also addresses a recent controversy within the game's community over "Rental Equipment Credits," a complicated system of equipment rentals for the game. There's an article criticizing this concept on Ten Ton Hammer that helps an outsider understand what's up with this system, and why this may raise concerns, saying: "you cannot earn REC and then purchase any items or equipment in Arena Commander right now or in this upcoming update permanently. You can, instead, earn REC to rent equipment and ships to try before you buy or, if you are committed enough, to keep playing with as long as you can continue to earn enough REC to pay the rental fee every 7 non-consecutive days of playing." In his post, Roberts acknowledges the controversy, though it's not certain how it will be dealt with:
Finally, I know that everyone is expecting me to talk more about Rental Equipment Credits. I took part in the heated discussion over the weekend and one of our priorities this week was clarifying some of the confusion about the system. I don’t have much to add right now, but I do want to stress: we asked for your feedback because we genuinely wanted it. A sincere thank you to everyone who provided that feedback. I’ll stress: we’re going to create a system that’s fun, not one that hurts players. Like everything else in Star Citizen, we will balance and expand our system to that goal once it launches until it meets our vision, and we will not settle for less.
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118 Replies. 6 pages. Viewing page 2.
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98.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 22, 2015, 12:13
98.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 22, 2015, 12:13
Feb 22, 2015, 12:13
 
Scheherazade wrote on Feb 22, 2015, 12:03:
He didn't drop " peons".

Post #68 did, and Sugarman was referring to it

Fair enough, corrected.
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97.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 22, 2015, 12:10
97.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 22, 2015, 12:10
Feb 22, 2015, 12:10
 
Sugarman wrote on Feb 22, 2015, 06:42:
What is it you really need to get out Julio, were you abused as a child, did your wife leave you?

Not speaking for Julio, but just a young common person these days. You know what happened Sugarman, you know what happened?

Here is the fuck what happened... Read the political posts here for the past couple years works to.

1. Kid/families saddled with college debt.
2. Have a hard time finding full time work much above minimum.
3. All the same time companies doing better than ever.
4. Gutting pensions.
5. Gutting Medical.
6. Doing more job with less people.
And more.

Companies doing better than ever, but at every turn tightening the screws on their workers that are just as important to the whole.

So instead of understanding why people bitch about SC, based around decades old sayings, you go to child abuse and domestic issues. Yeah, you surely know how to take the high road, as you like to portray with your support for SC. You have your own method of bitching like the next person.
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Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 22, 2015, 12:03
96.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 22, 2015, 12:03
Feb 22, 2015, 12:03
 
HorrorScope wrote on Feb 22, 2015, 11:54:
Sugarman wrote on Feb 22, 2015, 06:20:
There's nothing keeping the peons from grouping up on me.

See but not even a few posts after your first and nothing even that pointed towards you, people saying they are ok with you spending whatever you like, good luck. But that is how a forum works, there is nothing keeping people from... If you take an unpopular position, you need to be able to deal with it. It's not like no poster here hasn't been on that side, we all have, deal.

Then you have to drop "peons". See you have money and with that it has gone to your head, you start setting up class scales in your head.

To me this game right now is no more or less than even the cheapest indy game. It will have a release (well we hope in this case) and then it has the same rules as all the rest. Is it worth the time and money to buy into?

So no matter how much praise or how much bitching there is, to me there is always that moment of "Is it worth a buy?". I question this game to hell and back because it fails on a lot of warnings we've been raised around. I don't like to miss patterns and fall for "it" again. But if it is close to what they tell us, the dude is going to get some serious praise for a long time.

So I'll leave with a positive saying for the game "no guts, no glory".

He didn't drop " peons".

Post #68 did, and Sugarman was referring to it.

Julio wrote on Feb 22, 2015, 06:08:
Sugarman wrote on Feb 22, 2015, 05:33:
Actually I'm in for over $3200...If I have it to spend/waste then what business is it of yours to say how I spend it?

It's not my business how you spend your money. Star Citizen sounds like it's the perfect thing for you. You should put more into the game.

Shooting down the peons in their starter space craft while cruising around in luxury sounds like great entertainment...

-scheherazade
95.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 22, 2015, 11:56
95.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 22, 2015, 11:56
Feb 22, 2015, 11:56
 
Julio wrote on Feb 22, 2015, 06:23:
Sugarman wrote on Feb 22, 2015, 06:20:
you merely paint me as some fanatical fanboy.

Putting in $3200 alone gets you the fanboy t-shirt.

Different folks have different incomes and different expenses.

$3200 would buy me 1 set of new tires and 2 [cheap] front rotors.
(Throw in some driving events or track time and the money flies.)

Some people are fortunate enough that dropping a few k on a hobby once in a blue moon isn't that big a deal.

Plus not everyone has the same taste in hobbies.

-scheherazade
94.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 22, 2015, 11:54
94.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 22, 2015, 11:54
Feb 22, 2015, 11:54
 
Sugarman wrote on Feb 22, 2015, 06:20:
There's nothing keeping the peons from grouping up on me.

See but not even a few posts after your first and nothing even that pointed towards you, people saying they are ok with you spending whatever you like, good luck. But that is how a forum works, there is nothing keeping people from... If you take an unpopular position, you need to be able to deal with it. It's not like no poster here hasn't been on that side, we all have, deal.

Then you have to drop "peons". See you have money and with that it has gone to your head, you start setting up class scales in your head. (EDIT: Sugar didn't start the Peon wars, he commented from another who used it first)

To me this game right now is no more or less than even the cheapest indy game. It will have a release (well we hope in this case) and then it has the same rules as all the rest. Is it worth the time and money to buy into?

So no matter how much praise or how much bitching there is, to me there is always that moment of "Is it worth a buy?". I question this game to hell and back because it fails on a lot of warnings we've been raised around. I don't like to miss patterns and fall for "it" again. But if it is close to what they tell us, the dude is going to get some serious praise for a long time.

So I'll leave with a positive saying for the game "no guts, no glory".

This comment was edited on Feb 22, 2015, 12:14.
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93.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 22, 2015, 11:45
93.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 22, 2015, 11:45
Feb 22, 2015, 11:45
 
Sugarman wrote on Feb 22, 2015, 05:33:
Actually I'm in for over $3200. As I've said before, I've spent far more over a weekend in Vegas. Spent twice that on modifications to my current BMW on just a few upgrades. If I tallied up all the money I've spent on fast cars I'd say it's somewhere near 40k right now, and that's only on the upgrades, none of that is for the purchase price of the car.

If it's ok with you I'll continue to spend money on my hobbies that are important to me. If I have it to spend/waste then what business is it of yours to say how I spend it?

Right. But then who are you to tell people that have red flags going up in their heads from past experiences over and over, that they are terrible miserable people that just want to see people fail? To me you go to the extreme on your end as well when you see fit.

To me reading at Blue's there are just a very few that are totally negative to the game and many things here. However the largest group to me seems to be the "fool me once crowd" however if asked they would be very happy to see the game a success. We comment on the news because that is what we do here, that is the MO for the site. Blue lines up, we knock up down, see what passes "the smell test". Then there is final group that takes offense for people speaking out against "their game". We have plenty of positive hands on comments, it seems the one's that work the best are just say it, what about it and let it stand on it's own. When you have to start defending it to the Xth level, that is where it goes south.

This game is fighting a series of sayings we've all learned over generations. "if it seems to good to be true", "sucker born every minute". You see that is what you get when you promise the world, people question that, "been there done it" (yes another saying, they just all fit), but secretly at worst they hope it can be delivered. Until then we "still haven't found what were looking for".

So go spend your $3200, if you got the jack where $3200 is simply discretionary spending, god bless yah. The only thing I'd fantasize about there is exactly how much money would I have to have to drop $3200 on virtual game stuff, but again each their own. Your spending $3200 to me equals no more and probably less than another person who's spent zero, as I have to weight your pro-game position with all that skin you have in it.
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Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 22, 2015, 11:01
92.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 22, 2015, 11:01
Feb 22, 2015, 11:01
 
And they're likening it to "Agent Smithing", when you log in to take a spot on a buddy or corp mates ship, you'll take place of the AI/NPC manning whatever position you've been given on that ship. And everyone gets paid, if you're crew then you get a cut of the profits.
91.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 22, 2015, 10:56
91.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 22, 2015, 10:56
Feb 22, 2015, 10:56
 
Wow I never knew you were such a humanitarian. Godspeed, rich man! Buy more virtual spaceships, for humanity!.

Isn't there supposed to be a "Good news everyone" in there somewhere?
90.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 22, 2015, 10:54
90.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 22, 2015, 10:54
Feb 22, 2015, 10:54
 
My point is, you don't need to spend a dime other than what it takes to gain access. Get in an org, make some friends, crew their ships or fly their extra ships as an escort, have fun, everyone will have something to do. Or we can all just complain about whatever.
89.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 22, 2015, 10:49
PHJF
 
89.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 22, 2015, 10:49
Feb 22, 2015, 10:49
 PHJF
 
If it turns out as good as we all hope then many of you will benefit from those of us who've funded SC beyond what most believed was possible.


Wow I never knew you were such a humanitarian. Godspeed, rich man! Buy more virtual spaceships, for humanity!.
Steam + PSN: PHJF
Avatar 17251
88.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 22, 2015, 10:48
88.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 22, 2015, 10:48
Feb 22, 2015, 10:48
 
The difference is smoking doesn't give them an advantage over you does it? The problem with this model is its classist. We have enough of that bullshit IRL the last place we want to see it is in games. Games are supposed to be fair otherwise what's the point in playing? It's like you and I starting a game of Monopoly when you already own half the properties with hotels on them. You've already got disposable income that most people don't, isn't that enough? Do you have to constantly lord it over those who don't? How much is enough? How many yachts can you water-ski behind, Gordon?

It doesn't give as much of an advantage as you'd think, maybe at first when the game comes out. Those of us who can't play for 20+ hours per week yet have the disposable income to spend may have a bit of an advantage at first, but that will dissapear. And why are we always pitting everyone against each other, you can loan your ships, you'll need a crew to more effectively run your ship. Real players will always be better than AI in this case. Can't afford more than the starter ship yet your friend or corp mate has a plethora of multi-crew ships, then take a spot on his ship or ask to borrow one of his, I don't see how this is a bad thing at all. And it just so happens pledging for ships is how this game is being funded, and contrary to what most of you think or say it seems to be working out quite well.

I'll loan you a ship when the game is out Cutter, pick one, 890, Freelancer MIS, Gladius, Super Hornet, Constellation Phoenix, Reclaimer, Mustang, Retaliator, Redeemer, Carrack, pick one, they're all insured. There's no way I can fly them all at once.
87.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 22, 2015, 10:29
Cutter
 
87.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 22, 2015, 10:29
Feb 22, 2015, 10:29
 Cutter
 
Sugarman wrote on Feb 22, 2015, 10:16:
How much does someone spend in a year that smokes 1-2 packs of cigarettes per day, or someone who drinks often, or someone who uses drugs often?

There are plenty of people out there that spend far more than I have on things that I feel are ridiculous, but that's their decision, and even if I think it's a complete wast of money I realize it's really none of my business.

The difference is smoking doesn't give them an advantage over you does it? The problem with this model is its classist. We have enough of that bullshit IRL the last place we want to see it is in games. Games are supposed to be fair otherwise what's the point in playing? It's like you and I starting a game of Monopoly when you already own half the properties with hotels on them. You've already got disposable income that most people don't, isn't that enough? Do you have to constantly lord it over those who don't? How much is enough? How many yachts can you water-ski behind, Gordon?
"If you're going through Hell...keep going."
- Winston Churchill
Avatar 25394
86.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 22, 2015, 10:29
86.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 22, 2015, 10:29
Feb 22, 2015, 10:29
 
The issue was the fact that the scope of the project keeps expanding and seems to be looking at the funding as a revenue stream (that will keep providing money) rather than start-up capital (to get the job that was pitched done). It went from being "we're hoping to get X amount of money to make Y game" to "we'll keep adding to Z game until we stop getting money then you'll get what you get".

As it stands now the game will continually be updated/expanded, use EVE or WOW for an example, I don't see how this is a bad thing. This funding has to come from somewhere, people have to eat and pay rent, there has to be a sustained source of income. It's just sad that the "free to play" games have ruined our perspective on this, because we all know how free those end up being.
85.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 22, 2015, 10:28
85.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 22, 2015, 10:28
Feb 22, 2015, 10:28
 
Sugarman wrote on Feb 22, 2015, 10:16:
How much does someone spend in a year that smokes 1-2 packs of cigarettes per day, or someone who drinks often, or someone who uses drugs often?

There are plenty of people out there that spend far more than I have on things that I feel are ridiculous, but that's their decision, and even if I think it's a complete wast of money I realize it's really none of my business.

In effect, this is something of a strawman argument. Looking back at the first few pages of the thread, people aren't saying that people can't put however much money they want into something they love. What people were saying (myself included) is that we're doubting the ability of the developer to actually deliver on all that was promised. This, along with the fact that the funding thrust of the whole thing changed from 'help us get enough to bring this great game to market' to 'keep giving us money so we can finish this thing because we keep making it bigger.

People are absolutely entitled to spend their money however they please. Of course, that in no way offers them any kind of protection from other people having an opinion on the validity of that spending. Since this is an open forum, expect to hear both sides of the argument.
84.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 22, 2015, 10:23
84.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 22, 2015, 10:23
Feb 22, 2015, 10:23
 
panbient wrote on Feb 22, 2015, 09:18:
And if they don't get something back, they can afford lawyers who can rather than just raging about getting screwed over on the internet like the rest of us.

That's because most people in capitalist society are poor, the only way you could have a self correcting market is if you are within a couple blocks of the seller. Otherwise corruption and fraud become rampant like they have in our world. Most people are too stupid to understand the social order in which they exist and why they keep getting screwed.

If we were a couple blocks from many developers they would be getting the beat down of their life. But because we'd go broke trying to fight off the corporate world and most people are uninformed, you get this kind of world.
83.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 22, 2015, 10:16
83.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 22, 2015, 10:16
Feb 22, 2015, 10:16
 
How much does someone spend in a year that smokes 1-2 packs of cigarettes per day, or someone who drinks often, or someone who uses drugs often?

There are plenty of people out there that spend far more than I have on things that I feel are ridiculous, but that's their decision, and even if I think it's a complete wast of money I realize it's really none of my business.
82.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 22, 2015, 10:00
82.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 22, 2015, 10:00
Feb 22, 2015, 10:00
 
I don't really see it from a perspective that many of you do. If it ends up being the game I've always wanted to play and it is as fun as I hope it will be, then it's not really about the money, it's about my enjoyment. This is something that you can't always easily place monetary value on.

I'm willing to take a chance on it, it's as simple as that. There are some individuals who have pledged 40k so far for the same reason. If it turns out as good as we all hope then many of you will benefit from those of us who've funded SC beyond what most believed was possible.

Nothing like this has been done before, of course there will be many who doubt the possibilities. If it ends up a success then I won't rub it in anyone's face or say "I told you so", but if you're willing to give it a try then I'd invite you to man a station or a turret on my 890 Jump and have some fun, after all, this is what it's all about.

There is so much information to take in right now that it's nigh impossible unless you sat down for two weeks straight and watched every video and read all the information CIG has presented to us, because of this is why I believe there to be such a flock of naysayers. But if you really understood the scope of people behind this project then you'll see there is no way it can fail, far too many with far deeper pockets than me won't let that happen. This is the game they've always wanted to play, and there are plenty who are 40-65 years old who've been waiting on something like this for 20 years.
81.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 22, 2015, 09:18
81.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 22, 2015, 09:18
Feb 22, 2015, 09:18
 
{PH}88fingers wrote on Feb 22, 2015, 08:14:
I still don't understand how it's a bad thing that rich people help fund the game for the rest of us...

That was never really an issue.

The issue was the fact that the scope of the project keeps expanding and seems to be looking at the funding as a revenue stream (that will keep providing money) rather than start-up capital (to get the job that was pitched done). It went from being "we're hoping to get X amount of money to make Y game" to "we'll keep adding to Z game until we stop getting money then you'll get what you get".

The fact that it's an unprecedented project should be a concern rather than a justification for the behaviour.

Here's the other thing, most rich people don't like wasting money (one of the fundamental reasons why they're rich in the first place). They like getting something back from their spending, even if the results seem absurd to poor people. And if they don't get something back, they can afford lawyers who can rather than just raging about getting screwed over on the internet like the rest of us.
80.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 22, 2015, 09:11
80.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 22, 2015, 09:11
Feb 22, 2015, 09:11
 
Sugarman wrote on Feb 22, 2015, 05:33:
Actually I'm in for over $3200. As I've said before, I've spent far more over a weekend in Vegas.
...
If it's ok with you I'll continue to spend money on my hobbies that are important to me. If I have it to spend/waste then what business is it of yours to say how I spend it?
In principle, I agree with you. As I've said before, I spent over $1,000 in subscription fees on WoW over 6.5 years and I believe it was money well spent. But $3,200 for a game you haven't tried yet? That seems excessive, but I guess if you have so much money you think about dropping 3 grand on a game the same way I think about spending $30 on a steak dinner then it makes some sense.

Also as I said before, I hope you get your money's worth. Because for that to be true, it will have to an awesome game. And that means we will all win. However, I won't be holding my breath or betting the house on it.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies." -- Groucho Marx
79.
 
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy
Feb 22, 2015, 08:14
79.
Re: Star Citizen at $73M; Rental Equipment Credits Controversy Feb 22, 2015, 08:14
Feb 22, 2015, 08:14
 
I still don't understand how it's a bad thing that rich people help fund the game for the rest of us...
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