jdreyer wrote on Feb 19, 2015, 13:26:
I understand that people are mad at Peter, but I think calling him a "liar" is inaccurate. That implies a deceptive intent from that start, that he said all those things knowing he'd never deliver. I've never found that to be the case with him.

Milo. He knew. He knew.

And then probably little deep down one's he doesn't want to admit to.

Glad I didn't back anything from DF, it's clear they are not worth supporting in any way.

Sepharo wrote on Feb 19, 2015, 18:35:
It's weird how people talk about Broken Age like it's some unfulfilled game. It has everything and more that they promised the only hitch was that they released it in two parts. I'm definitely looking forward to part 2 because it's longer and more difficult and part 1 was already very good.

There's that, and there's also the fact that Double Fine have been very up-front about the fact that Broken Age development would be an experiment, something they haven't done before, even saying it could fail spectacularly. It hasn't, really, and while it's legitimate to analyze whether they could have made better decisions, in the grand scheme of things the splitting isn't a huge hitch and I got (will get) what I backed it for. I think anyone really pissed about the Broken Age situation is just lacking perspective, or moping around because the game hasn't met their taste.

Spacebase is another case entirely -- I've been very critical about that and do think they screwed up badly there, and have lost a lot of my trust due to it.

saluk wrote on Feb 19, 2015, 18:30:
Tim and Moly are similar in many ways, and in a sense, share the same basic failing. They are both highly creative, artistic people, with very little to buffer them. The kinds of things Peter says are the kinds of things I say to myself when I'm planning a novel or working on one of my own games. "Wow, this puzzle game is great, but maybe it would be better with a crafting system?" "Oh man, what if this character is actually the main character from the future who has come back but he is hiding his identity?" You kind of HAVE to go to this crazy space where anything can happen, it's just what comes natural.

At some point you either get lucky, or have enough other forces working as a project goes on to keep you grounded. With both Godus and Broken Age, the projects were public far too soon in the dev process, while things are still in the "anything can happen!" phase of creation. And not enough was done to ground them.

It's weird how people talk about Broken Age like it's some unfulfilled game. It has everything and more that they promised the only hitch was that they released it in two parts. I'm definitely looking forward to part 2 because it's longer and more difficult and part 1 was already very good.

Tim and Moly are similar in many ways, and in a sense, share the same basic failing. They are both highly creative, artistic people, with very little to buffer them. The kinds of things Peter says are the kinds of things I say to myself when I'm planning a novel or working on one of my own games. "Wow, this puzzle game is great, but maybe it would be better with a crafting system?" "Oh man, what if this character is actually the main character from the future who has come back but he is hiding his identity?" You kind of HAVE to go to this crazy space where anything can happen, it's just what comes natural.

At some point you either get lucky, or have enough other forces working as a project goes on to keep you grounded. With both Godus and Broken Age, the projects were public far too soon in the dev process, while things are still in the "anything can happen!" phase of creation. And not enough was done to ground them.

jdreyer wrote on Feb 19, 2015, 13:26:
I understand that people are mad at Peter, but I think calling him a "liar" is inaccurate. That implies a deceptive intent from that start, that he said all those things knowing he'd never deliver.

Hmm - I'm not sure I agree, actually. I don't think Molyneux actually believes he will deliver on his promises. I think he's genuinely excited when he hits on an idea, which often happens just while he's speaking - it's this thrill of things combining in your head as you explain them to someone else (as a programmer I've often solved hard problems while explaining them to friends), and seeing a beautiful possibility out there. Which is awesome, and he's good at that, and I've enjoyed listening to him do it. But no, I don't think he actually believes he will deliver those things - I think he just thinks they should be done, maybe that they can be done, in the abstract. He's an optimist about technology and games. His frame of reference is the medium, not his own operation.

So the scummy part is not being forthright about the fact that he's offering commentary on the medium. I think this is where he becomes a small person, actually, because it's where a desire for credibility and being heard and taken seriously comes into it. He understands that in truth, ideas can be sort of cheap, and no one actually wants to hear from pure idea-spouting people most of the time; people want some sort of tie to reality, some palpable context. So he roots his commentary in whatever project he's working on at the time, mining the project for legitimacy, to keep up appearances in a way. (Not that I don't think he also genuinely enjoys the day-to-day of games dev, too.)

I have a lot of sympathy for him in a way, because I understand a lot of those impulses. But I also think he's smart and self-aware enough to know what he's doing, and so really is actively deceptive. He's simply lacks the willpower to resist doing what he loves to do and has opportunities to do. It's like eating that piece of cake when you know you should be losing weight. Maybe it has addictive traits.

Personally, I want to forgive him and hope circumstances conspire to where he can keep doing useful work. But I also haven't been cheated out of any money.

Trashy wrote on Feb 19, 2015, 16:06:
Okay so this isn't a snarky nickname for Dragon Age..

You win the thread. Well played, sir.

Okay so this isn't a snarky nickname for Dragon Age..

jdreyer wrote on Feb 19, 2015, 13:26:
I understand that people are mad at Peter, but I think calling him a "liar" is inaccurate. That implies a deceptive intent from that start, that he said all those things knowing he'd never deliver. I've never found that to be the case with him. He believes his own grandiose BS. He's an ideas guy that has no ability in his brain to conceptualize the scope of what he wants to do, and then he runs his mouth. Nothing is impossible until it's actually impossible. That's why he absolutely needs an equal with sharp business acumen to reign him in. Unfortunately, he has become so successful that he's gone full Lucas and no one can tell him what to do.

Uhm... he admitted that he would say "anything" just to get funded... that pretty much means he know he lied on some things, from the get go.

/shrug

Curiosity was a scam to anyone who paid for it. There was no reward. In most businesses you'd be facing legal penalties if you put out a paid contest that actually had no rewards.

So then he ties the 'reward' from Curiosity to an unreleased crowd-funded game, and then proceeds to take the money and use it to develop a cell phone game that you pay to win, while never actually finishing the version of the game that was both crowd-funded, and tied to the Curiosity scam's reward.

Fuck Molyneux and any asshole that defends that sort of behavior. After DF-9, Shchafer should probably just shut his mouth too, and concentrate on delivering something to people for their money.

jdreyer wrote on Feb 19, 2015, 13:26:
I understand that people are mad at Peter, but I think calling him a "liar" is inaccurate. That implies a deceptive intent from that start, that he said all those things knowing he'd never deliver. I've never found that to be the case with him. He believes his own grandiose BS. He's an ideas guy that has no ability in his brain to conceptualize the scope of what he wants to do, and then he runs his mouth. Nothing is impossible until it's actually impossible. That's why he absolutely needs an equal with sharp business acumen to reign him in. Unfortunately, he has become so successful that he's gone full Lucas and no one can tell him what to do.

I'm not sure I would separate deception from belief, you can certainly still deceive people while believing something. He's not a modern Uri Geller or something but there is some really dubious shit in the back and forth about the Godus KS. Maybe in the past I would agree because I always thought of him as a marketing guy who made the wrong career choices but the Godus KS is the first time I've thought "ok thats bullshit". Specifically regarding project deadlines, some of the design goals, the on/off comments about a publisher and failed delivery of most KS rewards. That's without going into the switched focus of development (mobile vs PC) and some of the other rumor mill stuff that has come from both current and ex employees.

I understand that people are mad at Peter, but I think calling him a "liar" is inaccurate. That implies a deceptive intent from that start, that he said all those things knowing he'd never deliver. I've never found that to be the case with him. He believes his own grandiose BS. He's an ideas guy that has no ability in his brain to conceptualize the scope of what he wants to do, and then he runs his mouth. Nothing is impossible until it's actually impossible. That's why he absolutely needs an equal with sharp business acumen to reign him in. Unfortunately, he has become so successful that he's gone full Lucas and no one can tell him what to do.

Tim should be the last fucking person to talk about Peter after the Broken Age and DF9 debacles.

Cutter wrote on Feb 19, 2015, 12:49:
So when other people do it they get sued or go to jail for fraud, but when game designers do it it's fine?

You are under the dangerous illusion people are rational, if you are semi rich and popular and part of an industry that brings in a lot of money and the government/people in high places likes you then the same laws don't apply anymore. Laws apply only to the little/unpopular people. Our world is a giant highschool.

So when other people do it they get sued or go to jail for fraud, but when game designers do it it's fine? Well if he's responsible and should be accountable then why isn't he? How should he be treated? 'Oh that nut! Petey was just being his usual whacky self you can't blame him for that! Let's just let bygones be bygones. Hell let's give him another pile of money to blow on coke and hookers just because!'

It's unhealthy and unfair for people to expect honesty from developers? Well ok then Tim, not sure I would've gone with that but uh good luck.

Rough treatment? LOL. Some much deserved bad press after decades of bullshit is rough treatment? People really are softies these days.

"They hurt his feelings!" oh geez I'm crying over here, lifes so unfair!

"I am not saying developers like Peter and I [sic] shouldn't be responsible and shouldn't be accountable to deadlines,"

You're just saying that no one should be able to criticize them for it, yeah that's so much better.

This comment was edited on Feb 19, 2015, 12:10.

saying he can "really relate" to some of the nasty accusations this has involved

You mean like when you said, "Yeah, DF9 (?) isn't making any more money, so we're just not going to work on it anymore, fuck you who donated to it."

I would hope you can relate to it. The big difference is that PM has a much longer history of lying, and for you it was hopefully a one-off.

I would heartily recommend not siding with PM too heavily, nor following down that poorly trodden path.

Judas Priest explains how this shit happens to Pete, Tim.

Ticking like a time bomb
The fuse is running short
On the verge of snapping if it's caught

And all the pressure that's been building up
For all the years it bore the load
The cracks appear, the frame starts to distort
Ready to explode

Jawbreaker

No one deserved a lot of Pete's nonsense over the years. Just enablers enabling.

I'll believe Broken Age Act 2 exists when I have it (and it's longer than 3 hours) Act 1 was a huge disappointment when at the same you have stuff like The Dark Eye - Memoria or Chains of Satinav. That has both a gripping story, complex characters and exceptional artwork.

Grmpf.. still kinda regretting buying that..

Fuck Peter. And Tim, I love ya, but after Spacebase, you need to shut the fuck up and get back to work.