Slashman wrote on Jan 14, 2015, 16:50:

jdreyer wrote on Jan 14, 2015, 14:48:

Slashman wrote on Jan 14, 2015, 13:27:
TOTAL WAR: STONE AGE!

Now with enhanced romance options: 1) Club
2) Smooth Rock
3) Drag by hair into cave kicking
and screaming

It's called Total War, not Total Sex Simulator.

Also, Chris Taylor tried to KS a stone age game. It tanked.

W-what? People wanted the family tree mechanics back in the TW series. I'm just proposing they add Stone Age marriage mechanics.

Expecting historical accurate portrayal of marriage/sex/slavery in medieval, pre-medieval (or basically any post 1900) societies in games with AAA budgets is a pipe-dream

Prez wrote on Jan 15, 2015, 03:30:

eRe4s3r wrote on Jan 15, 2015, 01:35:

Prez wrote on Jan 14, 2015, 22:15:
The Total War bashers are a bit of an enigma to me. I get that Creative Assembly has been releasing games with some big downsides since Empire:TW - I really do. But unless you just find the horse and musket era completely off-putting, it just boggles my mind how people cannot think it is one of the best strategy games ever made once you install the Darth Mod for it. Shogun had some brilliant community made fixes that made it as brilliant as it could be, and even though the "Darth Modder" has hung it up there is still the TWCenter Rome 2 section. Have you seen the changelist for some of these? Every complaint addressed. If you are going to be idealistic and say you shouldn't have to mod your games that is fine but I think you ignoring the biggest advantage PC gaming has over console gaming - a community-improved experience.

The main problem in Rome 2 is that with a complete lack of proper politics and family trees you can't actually DO total war And while mods make things more historical, they can't fix things that are hardcoded.... like the sea battle AI (still one of the worst things ever to touch Total War)

The Darthmod greatly improved the Sea Battle AI in Empire. Why wouldn't they be able to in Rome?

I don't know why, but I own ALL total war games, and obviously I am big into mods. Sea Battle AI is a complete mess in every mod I tried in Rome 2 (And also Shogun 2, though there at least I can mostly ignore it). From Darthmod (Which I don't actually like, makes siege combat way too slow) to Radious Mods.

I will make jumps of joys when Warhammer version of this game does NOT have sea battles.

You should never underestimate how much difference a gun on a ship makes to the AI. With "melee" being an option for 90% of the vessels, the AI will always try to ram or board you (or if it's skirmishers, constantly run away from you, which is SO MUCH FUN in a game where battles take 20+ minutes... sigh). And more awesome, unless you BOARD or SINK a ship, any fleeing ship means you can replay that battle 5+ times.

There are mods that boost auto-resolve for naval engagements for a reason

Anyway, I don't know why, but I did not like Rome 2 at ALL. I liked Shogun 2 to some extent, mainly because of the fantastic atmosphere and art style. And I liked Empire mainly because guns solve a lot of the problems this game has with AI... unless it's melee troops facing gun troops, or formation movement in huge battle lines. ;p

eRe4s3r wrote on Jan 15, 2015, 01:35:

Prez wrote on Jan 14, 2015, 22:15:
The Total War bashers are a bit of an enigma to me. I get that Creative Assembly has been releasing games with some big downsides since Empire:TW - I really do. But unless you just find the horse and musket era completely off-putting, it just boggles my mind how people cannot think it is one of the best strategy games ever made once you install the Darth Mod for it. Shogun had some brilliant community made fixes that made it as brilliant as it could be, and even though the "Darth Modder" has hung it up there is still the TWCenter Rome 2 section. Have you seen the changelist for some of these? Every complaint addressed. If you are going to be idealistic and say you shouldn't have to mod your games that is fine but I think you ignoring the biggest advantage PC gaming has over console gaming - a community-improved experience.

The main problem in Rome 2 is that with a complete lack of proper politics and family trees you can't actually DO total war And while mods make things more historical, they can't fix things that are hardcoded.... like the sea battle AI (still one of the worst things ever to touch Total War)

The Darthmod greatly improved the Sea Battle AI in Empire. Why wouldn't they be able to in Rome?

Prez wrote on Jan 14, 2015, 22:15:
The Total War bashers are a bit of an enigma to me. I get that Creative Assembly has been releasing games with some big downsides since Empire:TW - I really do. But unless you just find the horse and musket era completely off-putting, it just boggles my mind how people cannot think it is one of the best strategy games ever made once you install the Darth Mod for it. Shogun had some brilliant community made fixes that made it as brilliant as it could be, and even though the "Darth Modder" has hung it up there is still the TWCenter Rome 2 section. Have you seen the changelist for some of these? Every complaint addressed. If you are going to be idealistic and say you shouldn't have to mod your games that is fine but I think you ignoring the biggest advantage PC gaming has over console gaming - a community-improved experience.

The main problem in Rome 2 is that with a complete lack of proper politics and family trees you can't actually DO total war And while mods make things more historical, they can't fix things that are hardcoded.... like the sea battle AI (still one of the worst things ever to touch Total War)

The Total War bashers are a bit of an enigma to me. I get that Creative Assembly has been releasing games with some big downsides since Empire:TW - I really do. But unless you just find the horse and musket era completely off-putting, it just boggles my mind how people cannot think it is one of the best strategy games ever made once you install the Darth Mod for it. Shogun had some brilliant community made fixes that made it as brilliant as it could be, and even though the "Darth Modder" has hung it up there is still the TWCenter Rome 2 section. Have you seen the changelist for some of these? Every complaint addressed. If you are going to be idealistic and say you shouldn't have to mod your games that is fine but I think you ignoring the biggest advantage PC gaming has over console gaming - a community-improved experience.

This comment was edited on Jan 14, 2015, 22:24.

For a moment I got excited thinking this will be W40k but no its just warhammer fantasy crap.

SimplyMonk wrote on Jan 14, 2015, 13:56:
That being said, both Dawn of War series did a great job with the 40K IP in my opinion. Always hoped they would of taken on WH40K: Gothic as make a homeworld-like title or somehow tie it into Dawn of War with fleet management.

I feel like Battlefleet Gothic has a pretty big problem for a videogame conversion insofar as their two largest fleets, Imperium and Chaos, are composed mostly of extremely similar-looking ships. Prow, bridge, greebles. A destroyer looks a lot like a frigate looks a lot like a battleship. While this is true of real-life warships, it seems like something that would be exacerbated in 3D -- a cruiser up close looks a lot like a battleship far away.

Warhammer could be fantastic in Total War style, corruption, magic, heroes, smaller battles = better performance and AI ,p

But the question is.. will they make it complex, deep and fun? Or will they remake Rome 2 with fantasy units.......

bhcompy wrote on Jan 14, 2015, 12:04:
Well, I mean, where do you suggest they go?

Total War: Neanderthal!

Watch massive battles of 15-20 units, see every festering louse on their fetid, unwashed bodies, equip advanced weapons like clubs... And clubs... And, if you survive till the late tiers of research... Pointy sticks and thrown rocks!

First DLC will be "FIRE!?!?!?!"

jdreyer wrote on Jan 14, 2015, 14:48:

Slashman wrote on Jan 14, 2015, 13:27:
TOTAL WAR: STONE AGE!

Now with enhanced romance options: 1) Club
2) Smooth Rock
3) Drag by hair into cave kicking
and screaming

It's called Total War, not Total Sex Simulator.

Also, Chris Taylor tried to KS a stone age game. It tanked.

W-what? People wanted the family tree mechanics back in the TW series. I'm just proposing they add Stone Age marriage mechanics.

SpectralMeat wrote on Jan 14, 2015, 14:50:

jdreyer wrote on Jan 14, 2015, 14:48:
Also, Chris Taylor tried to KS a stone age game. It tanked.

Because of Chris Taylor or because of the theme of the game?

The theme, but also type of game which was MOBA-like. Sup Com is a beloved franchise, and if he'd KS'd Kings and Castles he could have easily gotten a mil or so. Thing is, he needed 5 mil to finish Kings and Castles. There was no way he could get that from KS. So, his studio tanked (MS canceled a contract with GPG too) and they got bought by Wargaming. Keeping an eye out as to what he's doing next, hopefully not a F2P type game like WoT or WoP.

Would love to see this done in the 40K universe, but it sounds like the fantasy one. Which could still be pretty awesome and I don't mind CA going this route since they've covered much of our history already. Maybe this even be a breath of fresh air for the devs to have some fun developing in a fantasy universe (although with obvious strict canon to follow).

Rome 2 was a horrible let down for me so they will have to do something pretty awesome before I buy a new release from them again.

jdreyer wrote on Jan 14, 2015, 14:48:
Also, Chris Taylor tried to KS a stone age game. It tanked.

Because of Chris Taylor or because of the theme of the game?

Slashman wrote on Jan 14, 2015, 13:27:
TOTAL WAR: STONE AGE!

Now with enhanced romance options: 1) Club
2) Smooth Rock
3) Drag by hair into cave kicking
and screaming

It's called Total War, not Total Sex Simulator.

Also, Chris Taylor tried to KS a stone age game. It tanked.

SpectralMeat wrote on Jan 14, 2015, 11:19:
The last Total War games since Shogun 2 weren't so stellar to say the least.

That is one game, Rome 2. Unless you count the extension of Shogun2 as a separate game but in that case you are out of your mind because Fall of the Samurai was fantastic.

Honestly the TW naysayers have become some of the most whiny "$§)&s on the internet. No, I didn't especially like Rome 2 either (I should try it again, 253 patches later, but I haven't had the time or motivation yet), but all TW games had their issues. Shogun was extremely rough in many respects, Medieval needed medmod (who remembers that?) to become playable and the first Rome was a clusterfuck in terms of authenticity, bugs and game design (the worst unit balancing in the history of the series). Only Total Realism or one of the other total conversions fixed it years later. And Medieval 2 is the only game of the whole series I never really enjoyed (I still have some hope for Rome 2 :P). All of them required copious patching (can't remember for Medieval 1 actually) to become playable at all.

And you know what, despite all that they were great games (Medieval 2 excluded). The scope of TW is simply so ambitious that no game will ever be perfect and for the first half dozen entries people seemed to understand that but suddenly somebody started an internet rage circlejerk and now everything is just terrible. It's like Statler and Waldorf.

I've only owned a few of the Total War games since they debut like 15 years ago. I enjoyed them, but am much more interested in a fantasy themed version, so I'll keep an eye on this, assuming it actually exists. Let's hope CA learned from the mistakes it made with Rome 2.

I would certainly be interested in TW:40K. The fantasy version not so much, though it could be ok taking the Orks and finishing off them damned fairy elves I suppose.

What Games Workshop has to realize is that making a good video game is probably not going to cut into their board game revenue. Is Marvel losing money from the movies they're making?

Instead it would probably introduce a lot of people to their game that would probably never be interested otherwise.

Prez wrote on Jan 14, 2015, 12:58:

grudgebearer wrote on Jan 14, 2015, 11:44:

Prez wrote on Jan 14, 2015, 10:04:
Wow, all of the negative ninnies here... I for one think this would be fantastic!

Games-Workshop has a great IP, and fantastic writers at their disposal, but their games division is focused on milking out every penny they can from customers at all costs. Whoring out their IPs to low-skill developers because they are paranoid that any game that comes too close to the tabletop experience will detract from their miniature sales.

Well, I don't want a table-top experience. Table-top games are their own animal. I would much prefer it be real-time and visceral rather than slow and strategic like a turn-based table-top emulator would be. Not that I don't love that style, but I have been wanting a Total War-style Warhammer game since the first Shogun.

Yeah. I used to have the opposite opinion and wanted the digital version of the table top, but when I stop to think about it you are right. Let table top keep what it does well and let digital do what it does well and improve upon things where it can.

That being said, both Dawn of War series did a great job with the 40K IP in my opinion. Always hoped they would of taken on WH40K: Gothic as make a homeworld-like title or somehow tie it into Dawn of War with fleet management.

TOTAL WAR: STONE AGE!

Now with enhanced romance options: 1) Club
2) Smooth Rock
3) Drag by hair into cave kicking
and screaming

Research advanced weapons: Throwy things, stabby things or even throwy things that stab!

grudgebearer wrote on Jan 14, 2015, 11:44:

Prez wrote on Jan 14, 2015, 10:04:
Wow, all of the negative ninnies here... I for one think this would be fantastic!

Games-Workshop has a great IP, and fantastic writers at their disposal, but their games division is focused on milking out every penny they can from customers at all costs. Whoring out their IPs to low-skill developers because they are paranoid that any game that comes too close to the tabletop experience will detract from their miniature sales.

Well, I don't want a table-top experience. Table-top games are their own animal. I would much prefer it be real-time and visceral rather than slow and strategic like a turn-based table-top emulator would be. Not that I don't love that style, but I have been wanting a Total War-style Warhammer game since the first Shogun.