How did this get dug up almost two months later???

Hey Zor. So when will Suadron42 ship? The whole squadron42?

Zor wrote on Jan 13, 2015, 09:21:
Yes, I have seen the Wing Commander movie. I also know a bit behind the scenes about it, such as the fact he was only given 8 months to make it. I think what he was able to pull off, while a shadow of what it could have been, was surprising given the limited time and budget.

And this is why no one wants to talk to you.

ok, Kosumo, has your life been filled with nothing but success? You have never failed at anything or done something that didn't quite live up to par for whatever reason?

I'm willing to bet that's not the case. No one is perfect, and no one scores a home run with everything they do in life. Just because someone has success and then fails doesn't mean they can't achieve future success and/or learn from mistakes.

I personally loved Freelancer and I've never read anything on that which you claim of him being "moved on." What I have heard from him is that Microsoft and Digital Anvil did not agree on a lot of things including funding and time and thus there were things that did not happen with the game. His ambition was beyond the tech of the time, from what I understand. Despite that, it was still a good game, imo.

Yes, I have seen the Wing Commander movie. I also know a bit behind the scenes about it, such as the fact he was only given 8 months to make it. I think what he was able to pull off, while a shadow of what it could have been, was surprising given the limited time and budget.

But why do people keep bringing up someone's ability at making a movie when discussing his current role of making a computer game? That just doesn't make sense to me.

But, you really don't want me to take you seriously I guess, since you're making childish shots at his person with the "outfit" comment.

Freelancer though massively over-hyped was still one of the greatest space games ever made though.

Anyway, as long as Squadron 42 is delivered with cinematic production values (And we know Cry-Engine is up for that) then they make what I wanted out of it...

And for the rest, I assume the tiny closed levels currently are exactly the way they are because the MAJOR part of the game, which requires massive engine modifications, new netcode, new simulation and new AI, is nowhere near to being playable for normal players. And since everything is modular (And Arena Commander is supposed to be the "combat simulator" module that is basically the training mode) we are getting an early peek, but nothing even remotely like the full game.

And that's how game development is. Some parts are done early, some parts take forever. And boarding itself is a module that you need to take into account when making art, and when coding the engine. It's impossible to "patch that in" later. FPS module and every single SHIP making (both from Squadron 42 and the other teams) has to coordinate on getting this to work....

But Zor, Chris Roberts has a track record and it is far from fulled with succses.

Freelancer - (he was moved on because it was not getting done, he could not forful what he was hoping to, it was taking way longer than anyone expected) and when it came out (after afew years of others finishing it) it was far from what he talked it up to be.

The Wing Commander Movie - well if you have seen it you know what I'm saying, if you have not, you should have a look at it.

Other movies that he was involved with as a producer - far form anything great (althought I did not mind Lord of War but he was just a lower end producer on that one.)

Chris Roberts is totally gonna end up like Curt Schilling and 38 Studio except instead of tax money, it's money form fanbois like you.

If you think Arena Commander (and the Hangar) represents a game, well, good for you, others would rightfully just call it a alpha demo thats not very good. (it's just a fps engine faking being in space ships that after 5 mins is totally 'meh')

I backed the game and will be patient with them because I want all that stuff, whatever and however long it takes to get it done right.

With Christ Roberts at the helm .... your being totally played.

P.S. did you like his cool commander clothes (outfit) he wears while talking at 'CitizenCon', bet that makes the game better.

This comment was edited on Jan 13, 2015, 01:17.

The added features were things he always wanted to do if he had the funds to do so. The base game is still going to happen, and it doesn't bother me at all if it takes a bit longer because they're going to be able to make it even better and more advanced than they would have been.

When i backed the game I had no doubt that it was going to be several years before it would be close to any sort of beta. I'm patient, and I know that I want to see him create his complete vision that he had from the start, which he now has the money to do. I'm excited that they're able to do things they couldn't have hoped for like procedural damage and such, and Hollywood quality performance capture.

You say "release Star Citizen and work on the ship boarding and all the other stuff" but it's all that other stuff that is what makes it Star Citizen. All that other stuff is what will set it apart and truly make it special. I backed the game and will be patient with them because I want all that stuff, whatever and however long it takes to get it done right. There's plenty of other stuff to play while I wait.

Zor wrote on Jan 12, 2015, 19:15:
That's software development. There are delays, that's just how it goes, but it doesn't mean anything is awry.

There only fault, I guess, is making this an open project and not completely closed from public consumption until they're done. Yet they can't do that with a crowd funded project. So, do you see the catch 22? You just have to suffer the wait and try and be a part of the development, as they are intending. Did you know Diablo 3 took an estimated 10 years to develop? World of Warcraft an estimated 7? Shit takes time, and delays are simply a reality in a creative process.

I understand that but don't you agree the added features he piled on to the base game add to the development time?
Don't you think it would have been better to have the core game developed, up and running before working on the addons?
That is all I am saying.

They could do that for the single player part, release it episodically, why can't they do that with the rest of the game. Release Star Citizen and work on the ship boarding and all the other stuff he wants.
I am pretty sure most people backed this game for the Space game, all the extra fluff could have come later.

SpectralMeat wrote on Jan 12, 2015, 18:25:

jdreyer wrote on Jan 12, 2015, 17:57:

SpectralMeat wrote on Jan 12, 2015, 16:12:

Edit: I just dislike the direction he runs his business with the `mo money `mo money `mo money mentality instead of the let's focus on finishing the damn game.
If he has a killer game in the making he will be making money with it years after it's released with expansions, new ships etc.
But he seem to be focused on riding the hype train get as much in funding as possible instead.

I get what you are saying, but that's what Chris does. He's the front man. He's the ideas man. And this game is extremely ambitious, and that takes money. So, he's raising that money. He's got 200 people working for him to make the game. No one is forcing you to buy those $10K ships, so how are you affected? Those whales are funding the game for us minnows. And they're making content, showing demos, releasing alpha code, it's being iterated, etc. etc. This is not DNF where you'd wait literally years for a few screenshots in PCG. They show weekly progress. Are they delayed? Yes, just like 80% of all software projects ever.

and why is the delay?
Is it because they have programming issues or is it because the space ship game we've helped them kickstart turned into a swiss army knife of a game.
Wouldn't you rather play the beta version right now and have the first person module added in later as a dlc, than wait another year or two before we even see any actual "game"
Who knows by the time this all should be finished they will add another 20 features to the game that will keep it from being finished another few years.

That's software development. There are delays, that's just how it goes, but it doesn't mean anything is awry.

There only fault, I guess, is making this an open project and not completely closed from public consumption until they're done. Yet they can't do that with a crowd funded project. So, do you see the catch 22? You just have to suffer the wait and try and be a part of the development, as they are intending. Did you know Diablo 3 took an estimated 10 years to develop? World of Warcraft an estimated 7? Shit takes time, and delays are simply a reality in a creative process.

Beamer wrote on Jan 12, 2015, 18:04:

Zor wrote on Jan 12, 2015, 18:01:

nin wrote on Jan 12, 2015, 17:51:
Also, sea lioning.

lol are you suggesting that I take a different social approach to discussing this?

At some point I think you need to accept that the only thing that will change people's minds is a final product.

I get that seeing the same people say "this is a scam" or some variation in every thread can be annoying, but you won't change their minds and they won't change yours. Until there's a final product no one is right. The main competitor, ED, received similar complaints and, while it didn't shut everyone up, it made those eagerly awaiting it very happy.

not trying to change a mind, just trying to prevent misinformation, lol

jdreyer wrote on Jan 12, 2015, 17:57:

SpectralMeat wrote on Jan 12, 2015, 16:12:

Edit: I just dislike the direction he runs his business with the `mo money `mo money `mo money mentality instead of the let's focus on finishing the damn game.
If he has a killer game in the making he will be making money with it years after it's released with expansions, new ships etc.
But he seem to be focused on riding the hype train get as much in funding as possible instead.

I get what you are saying, but that's what Chris does. He's the front man. He's the ideas man. And this game is extremely ambitious, and that takes money. So, he's raising that money. He's got 200 people working for him to make the game. No one is forcing you to buy those $10K ships, so how are you affected? Those whales are funding the game for us minnows. And they're making content, showing demos, releasing alpha code, it's being iterated, etc. etc. This is not DNF where you'd wait literally years for a few screenshots in PCG. They show weekly progress. Are they delayed? Yes, just like 80% of all software projects ever.

and why is the delay?
Is it because they have programming issues or is it because the space ship game we've helped them kickstart turned into a swiss army knife of a game.
Wouldn't you rather play the beta version right now and have the first person module added in later as a dlc, than wait another year or two before we even see any actual "game"
Who knows by the time this all should be finished they will add another 20 features to the game that will keep it from being finished another few years.

Zor wrote on Jan 12, 2015, 18:01:

nin wrote on Jan 12, 2015, 17:51:
Also, sea lioning.

lol are you suggesting that I take a different social approach to discussing this?

At some point I think you need to accept that the only thing that will change people's minds is a final product.

I get that seeing the same people say "this is a scam" or some variation in every thread can be annoying, but you won't change their minds and they won't change yours. Until there's a final product no one is right. The main competitor, ED, received similar complaints and, while it didn't shut everyone up, it made those eagerly awaiting it very happy.

nin wrote on Jan 12, 2015, 17:51:
Also, sea lioning.

lol are you suggesting that I take a different social approach to discussing this?

SpectralMeat wrote on Jan 12, 2015, 16:12:

Edit: I just dislike the direction he runs his business with the `mo money `mo money `mo money mentality instead of the let's focus on finishing the damn game.
If he has a killer game in the making he will be making money with it years after it's released with expansions, new ships etc.
But he seem to be focused on riding the hype train get as much in funding as possible instead.

I get what you are saying, but that's what Chris does. He's the front man. He's the ideas man. And this game is extremely ambitious, and that takes money. So, he's raising that money. He's got 200 people working for him to make the game. No one is forcing you to buy those $10K ships, so how are you affected? Those whales are funding the game for us minnows. And they're making content, showing demos, releasing alpha code, it's being iterated, etc. etc. This is not DNF where you'd wait literally years for a few screenshots in PCG. They show weekly progress. Are they delayed? Yes, just like 80% of all software projects ever.

nin wrote on Jan 12, 2015, 17:48:

Zor wrote on Jan 12, 2015, 17:46:
Why did yo back them if you have doubts? Is that not a huge contradiction?

The project has vastly changed in scope from when it was on KS.

One of these things is not like the other, lol.

Indeed it has. But, I really don't agree with any logic that would suggest that this is a bad thing. Nor do I have any doubt that they can pull this off.

Plus, even if they can't get everything in that they currently hope for, but still achieve at least what they wanted at the time of the KS, how is that anything but a win for anyone who backed for it at that point in time? You'd still get what you paid for, so I don't get what the problem is. This game, in some shape or form, will "ship" eventually. If you did not doubt that then, why doubt it now?

SpectralMeat wrote on Jan 12, 2015, 17:49:

Zor wrote on Jan 12, 2015, 17:46:
I don't care one way or another if you like or dislike their ways or them personally, nor have I suggested such. How many ways do I have to say that? I am only interested in why you think they aren't making the game or if the problem is that they aren't making it as fast as you would like? Can you not answer that question? Why did yo back them if you have doubts? Is that not a huge contradiction?

When I've backed them this game was supposed to be a fraction of what it is today.
If I could I would get my money back now.
I did believe in them than I don't believe in them now.
Is this clear enough answer to your question?
If not I give up man

No, that's great, as it's finally an answer. I don't really agree with your logic, but there it is anyway.

Also, sea lioning.

Vall Forran wrote on Jan 12, 2015, 17:36:
No business is gonna turn down free money. But, maybe, they should start making a game with it instead of planning expansions and dlc. And, no, arena commander is not a game.

What would you call it? What do you suppose they are actually doing with their time and manpower? Did you used to work for them? I'm really curious as to the nature of YOUR insight on what they are or aren't doing since I'm under the impression that they are developing Star Citizen in a modular fashion with multiple studios and multiple contractors working simultaneously on different facets of the project at the same time while releasing parts of it in a pre-alpha state to backers for feedback while steadily working towards the goal of uniting all of these modules into one large game and universe... /eyeroll

Zor wrote on Jan 12, 2015, 17:46:
I don't care one way or another if you like or dislike their ways or them personally, nor have I suggested such. How many ways do I have to say that? I am only interested in why you think they aren't making the game or if the problem is that they aren't making it as fast as you would like? Can you not answer that question? Why did yo back them if you have doubts? Is that not a huge contradiction?

When I've backed them this game was supposed to be a fraction of what it is today.
If I could I would get my money back now.
I did believe in them than I don't believe in them now.
Is this clear enough answer to your question?
If not I give up man

Zor wrote on Jan 12, 2015, 17:46:
Why did yo back them if you have doubts? Is that not a huge contradiction?

The project has vastly changed in scope from when it was on KS.