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Valve Apologizes as Hatred Greenlight Campaign Returns

The Steam Greenlight campaign for Hatred has returned, not long after it was ended by Valve, who said at the time: "Based on what we've seen on Greenlight we would not publish Hatred on Steam. As such we'll be taking it down." Polish developer Destructive Creations' announcement of this isometric shooter admitted its themes are "disturbing," and this sparked controversy from the start. The Hatred Steam Community forums are filled with posts about the game's prospects being of being published, many expressing outrage that it exists, and many other expressing outrage at attempts to get it quashed. According to Destructive Creations, they received the following apologetic explanation from Valve's Gabe Newell:
Hi, Jaroslaw.

Yesterday I heard that we were taking Hatred down from Greenlight. Since I wasn’t up to speed, I asked around internally to find out why we had done that. It turns out that it wasn’t a good decision, and we’ll be putting Hatred back up. My apologies to you and your team. Steam is about creating tools for content creators and customers.

Good luck with your game.
Gabe
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151. Re: Valve Apologizes as Hatred Greenlight Campaign Returns Dec 18, 2014, 08:54 eRe4s3r
 
saluk wrote on Dec 17, 2014, 20:39:
eRe4s3r wrote on Dec 17, 2014, 17:54:
Timmeh wrote on Dec 17, 2014, 17:30:
just watched the trailer.

Any culture that allows that to be made and published is destined for pain. It is also a complete travesty that there are so many people excited about playing this garbage.

Who will be responsible when someone gets inspired and acts this out in a community or school? Because it will happen. The more we normalize violence like this the more these kinds of choices will have a lasting and horrific effect on our culture and youth.

People can cry freedom all they want. There is no escape from the outcomes of choices we make that affect our minds as a people.

That is utter complete bullshit, any medium with the goal to be art has the right to offend you so badly that you run crying out of the digital room. And it should.

Fucks sake... literature that offends you shouldn't exist? Movies that offend you shouldn't exist? Games that offend you shouldn't exist? When will people like you learn that the first and highest goal of any artwork is to inspire emotions. It does not define what emotions, inspiring ANY emotion is what puts ART above TRASH

I don't want to live in a world filled with trash, rather I want to have access to media that insults me, that shocks me, that makes me think, that stirs my emotions and inspires me to be a better person than be peddled the same mindless dumbed down shit you seem to love.

Any form of art has a right to exist. To deny it's existence is akin to censorship of the purest and most evil kind. That of thoughts.

Do we have to include all of the "trash" alongside peggle and the like? Though that is probably a flaw in the steam storefront more than anything else. Appealing to art always leaves me a bit cold. Not every art gallery shows the same pieces. The gallery itself tends to collect like-minded art together in groups, and the person who wants to avoid offense will usually be warned if a showing has very graphic, controversial, or offensive works.

Moreover, if art can have real power or impact, than surely it can affect a persons actions. You cannot say both "a game cannot incite a person to commit a crime" and "a game is an art form that can evoke an emotional response in a person. I would never argue that a single game is going to turn a good kid into a mass murderer - but a culture of violence that is then reflected in what people find "fun" is a culture that I see continuing to encourage and produce malcontents. It's a wide ranging issue with many variables and we can never hope to make people not be violent, lol. And I've played some depraved games in my time and enjoyed them, especially as an angsty teen.

But I take issue with the idea that it's "just a game". And I take issue with the idea that valve pretends to both have control over their store and then tries to say it's a free place. Indie developers have to fight tooth and nail to get their games listed. Some really idiotic murder simulator comes along, valve pretends to play the storefront card; but oh no, it's probably going to make money and hurt their bottom line. So then they pretend its an open market.

I would much rather the market were actually open. Let's get those hentai games on steam!

In other news, Sony has pulled the Interview from theaters because of hackers and bomb threats. Another case of a stupid movie whose sole purpose is to rile people up. If that is your purpose, do not be surprised when it works!

I am never going to say that art of any kind is not able to influence a human to do things, good or bad. Because I am not stupid (I like to assume that, anyway). Of course a human can be influenced by any outside influence, be it a game, a book or a movie, another person, or an event. Most stable personalities are not easily influenced however.

Steam could get the entire DLSite catalog. Now that'd cause a big ruckus

 
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150. Re: Valve Apologizes as Hatred Greenlight Campaign Returns Dec 18, 2014, 08:34 nin
 
Prez wrote on Dec 18, 2014, 08:31:
beremot wrote on Dec 18, 2014, 02:56:
Prez wrote on Dec 17, 2014, 21:57:
I am going to buy two copies of this - one for me to simulate mass murder for my own entertainment, and one to gift to Timmeh so his head can explode.

Do you think it would be wrong of me--since I really do loathe this game and the people who made it--if I bought a copy, just to mod it so that the main character is a naked man wearing only pantyhose--then sent my version of the game to HorrorScope?

Would that be unethical?

That would be awesome!

Steam workshop FTW!

 
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149. Re: Valve Apologizes as Hatred Greenlight Campaign Returns Dec 18, 2014, 08:31 Prez
 
beremot wrote on Dec 18, 2014, 02:56:
Prez wrote on Dec 17, 2014, 21:57:
I am going to buy two copies of this - one for me to simulate mass murder for my own entertainment, and one to gift to Timmeh so his head can explode.

Do you think it would be wrong of me--since I really do loathe this game and the people who made it--if I bought a copy, just to mod it so that the main character is a naked man wearing only pantyhose--then sent my version of the game to HorrorScope?

Would that be unethical?

That would be awesome!
 
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148. Re: Valve Apologizes as Hatred Greenlight Campaign Returns Dec 18, 2014, 07:22 Redmask
 
Timmeh wrote on Dec 17, 2014, 19:33:
It is SICK that we have people like this walking around. The people that made the game and the people that play the game. I am not going to buy the game, but I am also not going to keep my mouth shut while we burn all the jews in the oven either. Or how much fun it would be to murder all the innocent people around us.

You guys are fucked in the head. Sorry but you are.

You are 'fucked in the head'. Raging about an entertainment product when there are things many times worse going on in the world every day. Why should I give a shit what someone does for a release in their spare time in the privacy of their home? Despite what you're spouting it has no bearing on who they are or how they conduct themselves in society. The fact that you can't differentiate between this and reality says more about your own mental problems than anyone else.
 
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147. Re: Valve Apologizes as Hatred Greenlight Campaign Returns Dec 18, 2014, 06:35 Quinn
 
Been watching that first gameplay trailer again. This really is a tribute to Postal You begin exactly the same as in Postal -- facing east, at the front door of your home.

Can't help but think this game looks good and like fun. It simply is a Postal remake. I cannot believe the (negative) attention this game receives. It's like one person made some noise and the rest decided to keep on screaming. Kinda like the "Zwarte Piet" bullshit here in The Netherlands.
 
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146. Re: Valve Apologizes as Hatred Greenlight Campaign Returns Dec 18, 2014, 04:35 Numinar
 
This game seems pretty gross, like GTA if GTA was just Rampages (Which is probably how I played the old 2d ones if I am being honest).

Could be done really well though. It probably wont be, just because most games are not done well, but who can say? If it really is a celebration of mass shootings than these guys can go jump.

Also, if it's meant to be commenting on the uselessness of Story and the joy of mass murder, Destiny already does a really good job of this and is rated T, so it's nothing new.
 
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145. Re: Valve Apologizes as Hatred Greenlight Campaign Returns Dec 18, 2014, 03:20 Sepharo
 
beremot wrote on Dec 18, 2014, 03:07:
Sepharo wrote on Dec 18, 2014, 02:56:
Valve shouldn't be judging the morality of creative work (with the apparent exception of (near) porn) and especially not with Greenlight in place.

Wait a minute ... what? Why is it wrong to judge the morality of a game that celebrates mass murder, but it's perfectly fine to judge the morality of a game that celebrates people having sex?

Can you explain that to me? I mean, other than the fact that's just how it is here in the good old fucked up U.S.A.?

I'm pointing out it's an apparent exception. I'm not saying I agree with that but that's American culture for you I guess. Murder is okay but sex isn't.
 
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144. Re: Valve Apologizes as Hatred Greenlight Campaign Returns Dec 18, 2014, 03:07 beremot
 
Sepharo wrote on Dec 18, 2014, 02:56:
Valve shouldn't be judging the morality of creative work (with the apparent exception of (near) porn) and especially not with Greenlight in place.

Wait a minute ... what? Why is it wrong to judge the morality of a game that celebrates mass murder, but it's perfectly fine to judge the morality of a game that celebrates people having sex?

Can you explain that to me? I mean, other than the fact that's just how it is here in the good old fucked up U.S.A.?
 



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143. Re: Valve Apologizes as Hatred Greenlight Campaign Returns Dec 18, 2014, 02:56 Sepharo
 
You can take it with a grain of salt because I didn't put it in writing beforehand, but I kind of wondered if Newell was going to reverse this. It seemed out of his character given how hands-off he is and how that's reflected in Valve's culture and products.

Valve shouldn't be judging the morality of creative work (with the apparent exception of (near) porn) and especially not with Greenlight in place. Of course they have the right to do so if they wish, and I think it's dumb that I and others have to clarify that each time. Valve is also in a position where it doesn't need to bend to outside pressure. And to all of you saying this about the money to be made on the sales of this game... Even if this game defied expectations and was a huge AAA sized hit it would be a drop in the bucket for Steam still.
 
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142. Re: Valve Apologizes as Hatred Greenlight Campaign Returns Dec 18, 2014, 02:56 beremot
 
Prez wrote on Dec 17, 2014, 21:57:
I am going to buy two copies of this - one for me to simulate mass murder for my own entertainment, and one to gift to Timmeh so his head can explode.

Do you think it would be wrong of me--since I really do loathe this game and the people who made it--if I bought a copy, just to mod it so that the main character is a naked man wearing only pantyhose--then sent my version of the game to HorrorScope?

Would that be unethical?

This comment was edited on Dec 18, 2014, 03:01.
 



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141. Re: Valve Apologizes as Hatred Greenlight Campaign Returns Dec 18, 2014, 02:44 InBlack
 
Prez wrote on Dec 18, 2014, 01:50:
Beamer wrote on Dec 17, 2014, 22:10:
Prez wrote on Dec 17, 2014, 21:57:
I am going to buy two copies of this - one for me to simulate mass murder for my own entertainment, and one to gift to Timmeh so his head can explode. What a bunch of self-important tripe.

Greeeeeaaaat. Then when he hunts you down and kills you for your kindness, the Feds will find a copy of the game in his Steam list and have it to blame.


The irony of self-proclaimed righteousness crusader and ruler of what is allowed Timmeh killing me would make it worth being dead.

Hahhahah
 
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140. Re: Valve Apologizes as Hatred Greenlight Campaign Returns Dec 18, 2014, 01:50 Prez
 
Beamer wrote on Dec 17, 2014, 22:10:
Prez wrote on Dec 17, 2014, 21:57:
I am going to buy two copies of this - one for me to simulate mass murder for my own entertainment, and one to gift to Timmeh so his head can explode. What a bunch of self-important tripe.

Greeeeeaaaat. Then when he hunts you down and kills you for your kindness, the Feds will find a copy of the game in his Steam list and have it to blame.

The irony of self-proclaimed righteousness crusader and ruler of what is allowed Timmeh killing me would make it worth being dead.
 
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139. Re: Valve Apologizes as Hatred Greenlight Campaign Returns Dec 18, 2014, 00:31 verybad1
 
Timmeh wrote on Dec 17, 2014, 17:19:
Cutter wrote on Dec 17, 2014, 09:27:
Freedom without responsibility doesn't work. We should aspire to more than pandering to the lowest common denominator. Anything for a buck, Gabe?

I gotta admit your post impressed the hell out of me.

I agree that wee need freedom of expression, but we also need social responsibility. We do not live and cant live in a free for all wonton evil society.

Some dark things need to be left to be wrestled in secret with the id where they belong.


OK, who gets to make those decisions?

If the individuals in society are not informed well enough to make moral decisions that are beneficial to society as a whole, then we need to fix society.

Seriously, who gets to make decisions as to what is right, because a lot of people have a lot of varying views on a lot of things.
 
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138. Re: Valve Apologizes as Hatred Greenlight Campaign Returns Dec 18, 2014, 00:24 verybad1
 
Ozmodan wrote on Dec 17, 2014, 14:20:
verybad1 wrote on Dec 17, 2014, 14:09:
Only time freedom is of any value is when censorship is provided by the moral compass of each individual. Otherwise it's not freedom, and if as a whole the moral compass of society can't be trusted, then there is a deeper problem with that society than censorship can fix.

What fantasy world are you living in? There is no such thing as freedom as you describe it in a civilized society. I suggest you actually take some time and read some history. The collapse of many of the past civilizations can be attributed in part through the decline of many of their social mores.

All this game is going to do is rile up the game censor proponents, which is one group you really don't want to stir up.

Check the Soviet Union-Hihgly censored, check Nazi Germany- Highly censored.

If the individuals in a society can't be trusted, then the problem is with the society, not the individuals.

You seemed to have invented a history rather than researched it.
 
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137. Re: Valve Apologizes as Hatred Greenlight Campaign Returns Dec 17, 2014, 22:11 HorrorScope
 
Beamer wrote on Dec 17, 2014, 22:10:
Prez wrote on Dec 17, 2014, 21:57:
I am going to buy two copies of this - one for me to simulate mass murder for my own entertainment, and one to gift to Timmeh so his head can explode. What a bunch of self-important tripe.

Greeeeeaaaat. Then when he hunts you down and kills you for your kindness, the Feds will find a copy of the game in his Steam list and have it to blame.

Sounds good for a couple hundred responses at BN's. I want to get out, but they keep pulling me back in.
 
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136. Re: Valve Apologizes as Hatred Greenlight Campaign Returns Dec 17, 2014, 22:10 Beamer
 
Prez wrote on Dec 17, 2014, 21:57:
I am going to buy two copies of this - one for me to simulate mass murder for my own entertainment, and one to gift to Timmeh so his head can explode. What a bunch of self-important tripe.

Greeeeeaaaat. Then when he hunts you down and kills you for your kindness, the Feds will find a copy of the game in his Steam list and have it to blame.
 



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135. Re: Valve Apologizes as Hatred Greenlight Campaign Returns Dec 17, 2014, 21:57 Prez
 
I am going to buy two copies of this - one for me to simulate mass murder for my own entertainment, and one to gift to Timmeh so his head can explode. What a bunch of self-important tripe.  
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134. Re: Valve Apologizes as Hatred Greenlight Campaign Returns Dec 17, 2014, 21:57 panbient
 
Timmeh wrote on Dec 17, 2014, 19:33:
You guys are fucked in the head. Sorry but you are.

This past summer, some dude in my town got an assault rifle and a shotgun and walked through a suburban neighborhood allegedly shouting 'Bring me the cops!'

When the cops showed up he killed 3 of them and wounded two others before running away into the woods (he was caught the following evening).

He was also home schooled in a 'good and proper' Christian environment for the first 22 years of his life. Cause and effect right?

Who's to say who is really going to end up fucked in the head?

Certainly not me. Though you're free to keep on your self-righteous crusade as if it matters (it doesn't).
 
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133. Re: Valve Apologizes as Hatred Greenlight Campaign Returns Dec 17, 2014, 21:42 HorrorScope
 
Krodge wrote on Dec 17, 2014, 20:48:
HorrorScope wrote on Dec 17, 2014, 19:43:
A man, many men putting photos of themselves wearing pantyhose showing their junk online. Even though I'm not saying sensor it, it disturbs me because it looks totally hideous to me.

What has this got to do with anything?. Why are you looking up pictures of men in pantyhose if it upsets you so much. Just stop searching for them.

"I'm not saying sensor it"
I get the feeling you'd love to "Sensor" it

Some say Hatred disturbs them and has no place. I say men in pantyhose photo sharing socially has the same affect to me. But I just have to live with it and not bet my knickers in a bunch. I'm amazed at how much this comes up when searching for something else.

Sensor, yah lol. My typing/grammar isn't the best.
 
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132. Re: Valve Apologizes as Hatred Greenlight Campaign Returns Dec 17, 2014, 21:06 beremot
 
beremot wrote on Dec 17 2014, 15:39:
The analogy is right there in your post. Never mind the fact that the North Korean agents are acting under orders from their government and couldn't care less about social justice, if they are even aware of such a term.

Yeahyeah Yeah wrote on Dec 17, 2014, 17:37:
Heh. And you know this how?


Are you kidding? Do you know anything at all about North Korea?

Or is it the meaning of the term "social justice," that you don't understand?

North Korea is the absolute epitome of the totalitarian state, where the "Dear Leader" is treated as a god. The only value that the government of NK has, and the only value they wish to impose on their populace, is absolute obedience. They are willing to create, and already have created, mass starvation in their society.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure "social justice" doesn't rank very high on their list of priorities.

Heh.

This comment was edited on Dec 18, 2014, 02:49.
 



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