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Elite: Dangerous Refunds Reconsidered

A forum post from David Braben has further follow-up on outcry about Frontier's refund policy following the news that Elite: Dangerous will not support offline play (thanks PC Gamer). Word is they are reconsidering refunds for cases where the customer has already played a an alpha or beta version of the crowdfunded space combat sequel:

I want to keep you all updated.

We initially declined some people's request for refund as our records showed they have already played Elite: Dangerous online. After listening to many of the comments I received after my AMA here, we have since re-opened these requests and informed those people that we will be contacting them so that we can fully understand their individual situation before making a more informed decision.

We will be contacting them each in the next few working days.

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38. Re: Elite: Dangerous Refunds Reconsidered Nov 22, 2014, 20:58 DangerDog
 
HorrorScope wrote on Nov 22, 2014, 18:01:
Current Eula:

8. In-Game Advertising
The Game may incorporate technology (which may be provided by Frontier or third party service providers engaged by Frontier (each a "Dynamic Advertising Provider")) which enables advertising to be uploaded into the Game on your PC, and changed while the Game is being played on-line. In order that the Dynamic Advertising Provider is able to direct advertising appropriate to your Game and geographic region, as well as to the correct location within the computer game, certain non-personally identifiable data and information may be retrieved and retained by the Dynamic Advertising Provider including your I.P. address, geographic location, in-game position, and information concerning the appearance of advertising visible during your gameplay (for example, the length of time an item of advertising was visible, the dimensions of the advertisements). In addition, the Dynamic Advertising Provider may assign a unique identification number which is stored on your PC and which is used to monitor and calculate the number of views of dynamic advertising during gameplay. None of the information collected for this purpose including the identification number can be used to identify you.

The technology employed by Dynamic Advertising Providers may be located outside your country of residence (including outside of the European Union).

Where a Game incorporates dynamic advertising technology, the technology which serves the provision of dynamic in-game advertising is integrated within the Game. This means that if you do not want to receive dynamic advertising, you should only play the game when you are not connected to the Internet.

Yeah, they need to edit that part out obviously.

It probably wont amount to anymore than advertising skins for ships that you can buy from their e-store.

Just like what Valve is now doing with in game ads.

Valve sneaks in game ads into dota2
 
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37. Re: Elite: Dangerous Refunds Reconsidered Nov 22, 2014, 18:55 BazzaLB
 
Not sure how they intend to deliver the boxed, no DRM kickstarter rewards.

I suppose there are the usual apologists who think they shouldn't have to deliver on that either.
 
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36. Re: Elite: Dangerous Refunds Reconsidered Nov 22, 2014, 18:01 HorrorScope
 
Current Eula:

8. In-Game Advertising
The Game may incorporate technology (which may be provided by Frontier or third party service providers engaged by Frontier (each a "Dynamic Advertising Provider")) which enables advertising to be uploaded into the Game on your PC, and changed while the Game is being played on-line. In order that the Dynamic Advertising Provider is able to direct advertising appropriate to your Game and geographic region, as well as to the correct location within the computer game, certain non-personally identifiable data and information may be retrieved and retained by the Dynamic Advertising Provider including your I.P. address, geographic location, in-game position, and information concerning the appearance of advertising visible during your gameplay (for example, the length of time an item of advertising was visible, the dimensions of the advertisements). In addition, the Dynamic Advertising Provider may assign a unique identification number which is stored on your PC and which is used to monitor and calculate the number of views of dynamic advertising during gameplay. None of the information collected for this purpose including the identification number can be used to identify you.

The technology employed by Dynamic Advertising Providers may be located outside your country of residence (including outside of the European Union).

Where a Game incorporates dynamic advertising technology, the technology which serves the provision of dynamic in-game advertising is integrated within the Game. This means that if you do not want to receive dynamic advertising, you should only play the game when you are not connected to the Internet.
 
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35. Re: Elite: Dangerous Refunds Reconsidered Nov 22, 2014, 17:51 HorrorScope
 
harlock wrote on Nov 22, 2014, 13:12:
they fucked up, they should endure the consequences - thats the honorable thing to do,

Another option is to follow thru with an offline mode.
 
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34. Re: Elite: Dangerous Refunds Reconsidered Nov 22, 2014, 13:59 wtf_man
 
I'll just put it this way...

I kicked in $20 or so for Star Citizen. I really only did it for Squadron 42, and couldn't care less about the online game. I have not bought any ships or anything. If Squadron 42 can't be played offline... I'd want my money back... regardless if I beta tested it a bit or not.

Other than full fledged MMOs that *I* intend to play online only... I do not buy games with on-line requirements. Period.

/shrug
 
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33. Re: Elite: Dangerous Refunds Reconsidered Nov 22, 2014, 13:52 Jackplug
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Nov 22, 2014, 11:20:
FD has certainly made me reconsider purchasing this game.

I wont be buying this cos I can see the servers disappearing within a few yrs and the lack of a offline patch for the game when they do disappear...
 
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32. Re: Elite: Dangerous Refunds Reconsidered Nov 22, 2014, 13:12 harlock
 
Prez wrote on Nov 22, 2014, 04:14:
I have to say that it does seem that they are really making this harder on themselves. Just give everyone who asks a refund and stop the negative publicity they are getting. Like Creston said chances are the total number of refunds paid will be small compared to what they have made already.

They fucked up and shot themselves in the foot when they charged crazy amounts of money to get into the beta.. If it was all the same cost, it wouldnt be an issue - they could refund everyone that asked for it and wouldnt have to worry about "extra" losses

as it is, its really complicated - but id agree they should just go ahead and refund anyone who asks and eat the loss if someone wants a refund for their 150 or whatever and then rebuys for 50

they fucked up, they should endure the consequences - thats the honorable thing to do, and people would be much more understanding if they did that

as it is, they arent handling it well - and even if they end up giving anyone a refund later, the damage to PR is already done

its not exactly surprising, imho most business oriented people are anything BUT honorable
 
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31. Re: Elite: Dangerous Refunds Reconsidered Nov 22, 2014, 12:47 ForgedReality
 
Half-Life 3 confirmed!  
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30. Re: Elite: Dangerous Refunds Reconsidered Nov 22, 2014, 12:37 Endo
 
Sgt. Rock wrote on Nov 22, 2014, 08:39:
What's all the fuss about?
I understand that offline would have been nice for people with really bad connects, modding and when the servers go down in a couple of years(then they'll probably release the server code).

People who really can't play the game because of their connection(or lack off) will get a refund and will have to get over the fact that they can't play the game.

But everybody else especially those who have been playing the alpha and beta for months now, shouldn't be complaining.

I don't think this was a ploy to get more people to sign up for the Kickstarter, but to make as many people happy as possible.

The fuss is about the terrible way they handled it, and the fact that they lied about it.

I was never interested in this game, and couldn't care less if I can play a game offline or not, but I would never even consider buying anything from this developer now, purely because of the massive pile of BS they've created here.

They knew what they were developing, they knew they were lying, and they obviously didn't care. Fuck 'em.
 
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29. Re: Elite: Dangerous Refunds Reconsidered Nov 22, 2014, 11:20 Burrito of Peace
 
FD has certainly made me reconsider purchasing this game.  
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28. Re: Elite: Dangerous Refunds Reconsidered Nov 22, 2014, 11:11 HorrorScope
 
They should just add it back in and then take years to develop it. Coming Soon(tm).

For those that say, what's the big deal? That is the same question the Sim City team was asking and well not many were buying.
 
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27. Re: Elite: Dangerous Refunds Reconsidered Nov 22, 2014, 10:44 CJ_Parker
 
Sgt. Rock wrote on Nov 22, 2014, 08:39:
What's all the fuss about?
I understand that offline would have been nice for people with really bad connects, modding and when the servers go down in a couple of years(then they'll probably release the server code).

People who really can't play the game because of their connection(or lack off) will get a refund and will have to get over the fact that they can't play the game.

There is an additional layer to the fuss. Thanks to the always online requirement, it is now also inevitable that everyone will be playing in the same player-driven universe.

Even if you play single player online, the universe you experience will be the same as for everyone else, meaning that discoveries, trade routes, mining belts etc. will all be shared.
Some people were hoping to have "their own universe" to explore offline so they could explore and exploit everything by themselves.

This is no longer the case obviously. The 24/7 gamers will be the ones pushing into deep space and discovering stuff first, being the first to exploit mining opportunities and lucrative trade routes etc.
Of course the universe is more than HUGE with 400bn systems but we'll have to see whether it's fun for the more casual single player online folks to always tread in someone's footsteps or if the game mechanics will allow players to at least feel like they are still having a rather unique experience.
 
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26. Re: Elite: Dangerous Refunds Reconsidered Nov 22, 2014, 09:49 Quboid
 
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Nov 22, 2014, 09:32:
Ventura wrote on Nov 22, 2014, 07:17:
Wrong. They said specifically that it would when asked about it, and more than once, too. Here's one such example for you, taken from the Kickstarter's comments section, but there are others out there from reddit and the like.
Fair enough. I hadn't read all the comments - I was going based on what the actual KS page said.

It does seem clear that they are explicitly going back on their word. I don't think they intended to mislead when they said this and they're being decent with their refunds so I don't hold it against them but it is disappointing and it brings this game down a bit from being an almost inevitable purchase.

They must have known that they couldn't do offline only play earlier. Why did they hold back; fear, dishonesty, or delusion? If they were scared of the backlash, waiting was the worst thing to do. If they wanted to get as many preorders as possible then screw them, but their refund policy suggests this isn't the case. If they were clinging on to hope that something would come up to solve their problem then they should have known better. I understand the temptation to hope for a silver bullet to fix everything but this is an amateur's error.
 
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25. Re: Elite: Dangerous Refunds Reconsidered Nov 22, 2014, 09:32 theyarecomingforyou
 
Ventura wrote on Nov 22, 2014, 07:17:
Wrong. They said specifically that it would when asked about it, and more than once, too. Here's one such example for you, taken from the Kickstarter's comments section, but there are others out there from reddit and the like.
Fair enough. I hadn't read all the comments - I was going based on what the actual KS page said.
 
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24. Re: Elite: Dangerous Refunds Reconsidered Nov 22, 2014, 08:39 Sgt. Rock
 
What's all the fuss about?
I understand that offline would have been nice for people with really bad connects, modding and when the servers go down in a couple of years(then they'll probably release the server code).

People who really can't play the game because of their connection(or lack off) will get a refund and will have to get over the fact that they can't play the game.

But everybody else especially those who have been playing the alpha and beta for months now, shouldn't be complaining.

I don't think this was a ploy to get more people to sign up for the Kickstarter, but to make as many people happy as possible.
 
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23. Re: Elite: Dangerous Refunds Reconsidered Nov 22, 2014, 07:17 Ventura
 
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Nov 22, 2014, 06:06:
it was never stated there would be offline play.

Wrong. They said specifically that it would when asked about it, and more than once, too. Here's one such example for you, taken from the Kickstarter's comments section, but there are others out there from reddit and the like.

This comment was edited on Nov 22, 2014, 07:26.
 
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22. Re: Elite: Dangerous Refunds Reconsidered Nov 22, 2014, 06:41 Sleep
 
boohoo i've been playing for 6 months and now I want my money back.  
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21. Re: Elite: Dangerous Refunds Reconsidered Nov 22, 2014, 06:06 theyarecomingforyou
 
The Half Elf wrote on Nov 21, 2014, 17:33:
What's to understand? You said you would have a offline mode. You lied. People want their money back.
No, they didn't. They said you would be able to play the game without connecting to the galaxy server, which is what has changed, but it was never stated there would be offline play.

The difference is that rather than let you play the game 'out of the box', which according to reports is rather lacking, it will now automatically add new content as it becomes available to provide a consistent experience.

That said, it was also never explicitly mentioned that the game would require an internet connection so I can understand why some people are annoyed.
 
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20. Re: Elite: Dangerous Refunds Reconsidered Nov 22, 2014, 05:09 Ventura
 
harlock wrote on Nov 21, 2014, 23:22:
yeh its amazing.. its the most exciting thing ive ever seen in my life

walrus1 wrote on Nov 22, 2014, 00:33:
Woah! This really is getting better and better all the time!

Sarcastic fuckers

Granted, I probably should have worded my post differently. Just kinda amusing them getting annoyed at all the negativity over there, like as if deceiving customers was ever going to provoke a positive response.
 
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19. Re: Elite: Dangerous Refunds Reconsidered Nov 22, 2014, 04:14 Prez
 
I have to say that it does seem that they are really making this harder on themselves. Just give everyone who asks a refund and stop the negative publicity they are getting. Like Creston said chances are the total number of refunds paid will be small compared to what they have made already.  
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