Ceribaen wrote on Nov 21, 2014, 13:09:
In this case, WH:T was intentionally not to be a table top replacement because Privateer Press doesn't want that.
I've been interested in it off and on, the original concept I think was supposed to have been more of a first person style control with the warcaster with tactical combat

....no. You're either talking out your ass or you're confusing this game with something else. From the kickstarter forward it was supposed to be a turn based implementation very similar to the table top ruleset. They succeeded in this. A similar implementation to Space Hulk or Blood Bowl's different forays into PC gaming.

As was said earlier, faithful reproductions of table-top games on PC do not make happy gamers in most cases.

I agree 100% with the Space Hulk Ascension remake being much better than the tabletop copy that the first game was.

The moral is simple. If you like tabletop gaming, do tabletop gaming. If you want to play PC games, expect PC game mechanics that make for smoother and more intuitive play.

Tabletop gamers are not all going to turn into PC gamers and buy your reproduction game on PC. If they are who you made the game for, you're going to lose financially. That's obviously not the ideal situation for a game studio to shoot for.

Ceribaen wrote on Nov 21, 2014, 13:09:
In this case, WH:T was intentionally not to be a table top replacement because Privateer Press doesn't want that.

Ah. Was not aware of that. Makes sense though, although why wouldn't they? I've always been a fan of table top gaming, but I'm fairly unskilled and uninterested in modeling and painting. To this date I've only painted up about 2000 points worth of a Thousand Sons WH:40K army which I gave away to a friend when I stopped playing. Mostly I borrowed armies from friends or, when I played Warmachine, just play with figs that only had a coat of primer on.

I'm not at the point in my life where I have the time for the hobby aspect of the game, but I'm more than sure that PP could squeeze a few hundred dollars out of me for a respectable digital version of the game.

Sounds like this isn't it though. Sadness, because I'm also really fond of the Warmachine universe. I had a lot of fun with the Iron Kingdoms role playing game as well back in the day. A video game RPG set in that universe would also be appealing.

SimplyMonk wrote on Nov 21, 2014, 12:25:

Flatline wrote on Nov 21, 2014, 12:04:
Wasn't the monetization of this like psychotically egotistical? I have this vague recollection that they were charging nearly the same prices as the physical models for "expansions".

I don't think they've released official pricing yet so most of that is just rumors. I'd expect more of a $1-5 range for units.

Okay so maybe it was the battletech/mechwarrior tabletop/tactics thing that was basically an attempt to stitch World of Tanks' pricing scheme onto tabletop BT. That sounds more familiar because everyone was like "oh snap WOOT" and then the pricing structure was announced and people were like "Wait WTF???"

Orogogus wrote on Nov 21, 2014, 12:20:

SimplyMonk wrote on Nov 21, 2014, 11:21:
That being said, I've not heard good things about this from other fans of the table top. It amazes me that when these games get made they just don't copy the core rules and mechanics of the table top.

Blood Bowl was the only decent table top game implementation I've ever seen from the Warhammer Universe.

The original release of the recent Space Hulk game was nearly a 1:1 implementation, and people didn't like it. People here, on this forum, was like, "Marines are so bad in hand-to-hand against Genestealers, it sucks." The new Ascension release supposedly makes it a lot less of a 1:1 implementation -- it's no longer rolling virtual dice for your actions, checks are percentages now, jamming isn't completely random, etc. -- and people are saying it's a much better game for it.

Space Hulk is a game that essentially hasn't been updated since the 80's. The mechanics are old and creaky.

I appreciated the direct video game port, because it saved me 120 bucks when I decided not to buy the board game.

SimplyMonk wrote on Nov 21, 2014, 11:21:

garrywong wrote on Nov 21, 2014, 10:57:
Hm, a WH40K game that might hopefully not suck, but priced at $40 with no demo.
Unfortunately, that means I will not be buying this, even though I would love to.

*twitch*

WARMACHINE is NOT Warhammer 40K. Completely different universe. Both are awesome, but different.

That being said, I've not heard good things about this from other fans of the table top. It amazes me that when these games get made they just don't copy the core rules and mechanics of the table top.

Blood Bowl was the only decent table top game implementation I've ever seen from the Warhammer Universe. Relic did an awesome job with all the Dawn of Wars of course, but they weren't trying to mimic the table top. Just use the Universe.

In this case, WH:T was intentionally not to be a table top replacement because Privateer Press doesn't want that. This is supposed to be like Dawn of War where it's in the universe and stands on its own.

I've been interested in it off and on, the original concept I think was supposed to have been more of a first person style control with the warcaster with tactical combat - I haven't looked at it lately though, seemed like they went more the standard 'xcom' style cover tactical game.

Orogogus wrote on Nov 21, 2014, 12:20:
The original release of the recent Space Hulk game was nearly a 1:1 implementation, and people didn't like it.

Completely forgot about that game. Never got around to picking it up, but I heard good things from people that enjoyed the table top, which I bought when they re-released it a few years ago with the new models.

I suppose that is probably a leading reason why most developers don't mimic the table top directly as the general gaming public doesn't like the table top game play.

As for people's reaction to the initial release I think people just didn't realize how the 40K Universe works though in terms of Genestealers and Marines. Marine Power Armor is like butter to them and the universe is a pretty death-filled place. You have to approach the game with a rogue-like mentality.

Space Hulk missions by definition are suicide missions. If you'll notice, the vast majority of them are won when you complete an objective or destroy a target. Not "complete X and then escape before you get torn apart or die with the genestealers". The ultimate goal is never to get into hand-to-hand combat with a genestealer because they will just rip you apart. You are lucky if they don't.

This comment was edited on Nov 21, 2014, 12:48.

Flatline wrote on Nov 21, 2014, 12:04:
Wasn't the monetization of this like psychotically egotistical? I have this vague recollection that they were charging nearly the same prices as the physical models for "expansions".

I don't think they've released official pricing yet so most of that is just rumors. I'd expect more of a $1-5 range for units.

SimplyMonk wrote on Nov 21, 2014, 11:21:
That being said, I've not heard good things about this from other fans of the table top. It amazes me that when these games get made they just don't copy the core rules and mechanics of the table top.

Blood Bowl was the only decent table top game implementation I've ever seen from the Warhammer Universe.

The original release of the recent Space Hulk game was nearly a 1:1 implementation, and people didn't like it. People here, on this forum, was like, "Marines are so bad in hand-to-hand against Genestealers, it sucks." The new Ascension release supposedly makes it a lot less of a 1:1 implementation -- it's no longer rolling virtual dice for your actions, checks are percentages now, jamming isn't completely random, etc. -- and people are saying it's a much better game for it.

SimplyMonk wrote on Nov 21, 2014, 11:21:

garrywong wrote on Nov 21, 2014, 10:57:
Hm, a WH40K game that might hopefully not suck, but priced at $40 with no demo.
Unfortunately, that means I will not be buying this, even though I would love to.

*twitch*

WARMACHINE is NOT Warhammer 40K. Completely different universe. Both are awesome, but different.

That being said, I've not heard good things about this from other fans of the table top. It amazes me that when these games get made they just don't copy the core rules and mechanics of the table top.

Blood Bowl was the only decent table top game implementation I've ever seen from the Warhammer Universe. Relic did an awesome job with all the Dawn of Wars of course, but they weren't trying to mimic the table top. Just use the Universe.

Wasn't the monetization of this like psychotically egotistical? I have this vague recollection that they were charging nearly the same prices as the physical models for "expansions".

have only heard bad things about this.

This isn't a WH40k game. It is an adaptation of Warmachine....totally different table top system. More of a small unit tactical feel than WH40k's massive units slugging it out.

I got in on the Kickstarter for WM:T and have played it a few times as it was being developed. It isn't flawless, but I've genuinely enjoyed the time I've spent playing. If you want a general feel for how the game works, there are plenty of threads in the forum and there will be gameplay video reviews up by the end of the day.

(For the record, I wouldn't recommend buying it until a couple of patches come out. They're only coming out of Early Access because of contractual obligations.)

This comment was edited on Nov 21, 2014, 11:44.

garrywong wrote on Nov 21, 2014, 10:57:
Hm, a WH40K game that might hopefully not suck, but priced at $40 with no demo.
Unfortunately, that means I will not be buying this, even though I would love to.

*twitch*

WARMACHINE is NOT Warhammer 40K. Completely different universe. Both are awesome, but different.

That being said, I've not heard good things about this from other fans of the table top. It amazes me that when these games get made they just don't copy the core rules and mechanics of the table top.

Blood Bowl was the only decent table top game implementation I've ever seen from the Warhammer Universe. Relic did an awesome job with all the Dawn of Wars of course, but they weren't trying to mimic the table top. Just use the Universe.

This comment was edited on Nov 21, 2014, 11:29.

Come on, dude - take a chance (if the reviews sound good). Anyways, the price will surely drop eventually.

Hm, a WH40K game that might hopefully not suck, but priced at $40 with no demo.
Unfortunately, that means I will not be buying this, even though I would love to.