Cutter wrote on Nov 4, 2014, 12:54:
This is precisely the sort of shit that desensitizes people. This is shock value for money. The people that would enjoy this are likely clinical sociopaths already, so yes, this could be a trigger to push some of the more unstable ones over the edge. Much as I abhor censorship, stuff like this should be censored for the common good.

You have got to be one of the biggest tools on the internet.

DaHauns wrote on Nov 4, 2014, 20:33:
I see where you're coming from, Rigs. But it all comes back to the fact that this discussion has been had repeatedly since I don't know when. For books, for comics, for movies, for games.

Yep. It's all a bunch of unsubstantiated fearmongering.

I see where you're coming from, Rigs. But it all comes back to the fact that this discussion has been had repeatedly since I don't know when. For books, for comics, for movies, for games.

Prez wrote on Nov 4, 2014, 12:57:
@Rigs - I don't have a problem with you having issues with the game's portrayal of violence or having an opinion about it; what I want to know is do you think the game can inspire mass murders or other violent behavior? Based on what?

I don't think it inspires everyone, as in violent depictions such as this and those in shock-horror films (like A Serbian Film, Human Centipede, Hostel), which I personally think are garbage (I mean, what's the point? What kind of message is the film trying to put across? There just doesn't seem to be anything meaningful with it other than to see how much gore they can put on screen before it makes people uncomfortable and then they push it further). Like I said before, most people know the difference between right and wrong. But children don't think like adults. They're impressionable. Not ALL children, but you can't tell me you never had that one kid in school or in the neighborhood that you knew was just a little off. The one that liked the weird shit or talked about doing strange or messed up crap over the weekend. I knew a few, including one that talked about burying kittens up to their heads and then going over them with a lawn mower! No shit. Whether he actually did it, who knows. But for someone to even think something like that is cool and makes him look better has a screw or two loose. Did he grow up to be a killer? I have no idea. Probably not. But the chance is always there. I just recently heard about an OLD study that showed that kids who see domestic violence in their household are twice as likely to commit it themselves when they get older. So, in essence, they're influenced by what they see. How can seeing something like this game not effect their minds in some possible way? Not every kid is well adjusted or has the upbringing to teach them that shit like that is bad. Some kids are lucky to have any attention paid to them at all. No one can know what goes through their minds but I'd rather not take the chance of giving them ideas on how to take out their anger and frustration.

People see someone railing against something like this as an attack on their freedoms. That's NOT my concern. I care about shit like this getting into the hands of kids and highly impressionable or mentally unhinged individuals. There isn't a perfect solution for things like this, I know. But that doesn't mean we just don't try because there isn't a perfect solution.


=-Rigs-=

This comment was edited on Nov 4, 2014, 20:03.

Wowbagger_TIP wrote on Nov 4, 2014, 16:55:
The game looks terrible, and seems to rely on shock value and an appeal to more immature gamers. That said, I don't see how it's really any different than any of the numerous torture porn movies we've seen in recent years. I don't see very much in the way of calls to censor those. Maybe I don't visit the right media outlets for that?

Probably a matter of timing, and the fact that the devs aren't trying to sound all highbrow about it. That said, 'immature gamers'? Though they'd be so for different reasons, I'm not sure who's more mature: people into this game, or people really into Candy Crush or whatever.

The game looks terrible, and seems to rely on shock value and an appeal to more immature gamers. That said, I don't see how it's really any different than any of the numerous torture porn movies we've seen in recent years. I don't see very much in the way of calls to censor those. Maybe I don't visit the right media outlets for that?

jdreyer wrote on Nov 4, 2014, 14:01:
This is the wrong phrasing because it opens you up to retorts like this: The SS were professionals too. Killing didn't excite them either.

It's a good thing the devs aren't killing people then.

jdreyer wrote on Nov 4, 2014, 14:04:
Here's the thing. In the USA we live in a free society. That freedom does not come without risks. We allow this kind of speech precisely to prevent the slippery slope of censorship. Even if it did inspire a few mass killings (and I'm not saying it would, maybe even the opposite) that would be the price we pay for freedom.

That freedom also allows me to rail against this game and call it out for the worthless piece of shit that it is, and call on people to vote with their wallets.

I entirely back voting with wallets. And I agree with your sentiment, though I think 'inspired mass killings' will always be dodgy. Causality isn't quite so neat.

But I don't like the suggestion that we're one credible-seeming sociology professor away from having a justification to outright censor or ban games, even ones I find repugnant.

Here's the thing. In the USA we live in a free society. That freedom does not come without risks. We allow this kind of speech precisely to prevent the slippery slope of censorship. Even if it did inspire a few mass killings (and I'm not saying it would, maybe even the opposite) that would be the price we pay for freedom.

That freedom also allows me to rail against this game and call it out for the worthless piece of shit that it is, and call on people to vote with their wallets.

From the article:

We just make this game as professionals. Killing people doesn't excite us.

This is the wrong phrasing because it opens you up to retorts like this: The SS were professionals too. Killing didn't excite them either.

Poland, of all countries, should want to steer clear of those comparisons.

I'm going to take a more solid stand here: I don't care if a given bit of media can in some way be linked to a violent act, particularly by the already mentally unhinged. I don't think it has been or credibly can be as it stands, but that's a distraction which makes it sound as if the only thing that stands between justifying censorship or not is if enough social scientists show up and insist that it will lead to negative social effects.

No. Fiction is fiction, communication is communication, and free expression is sacrosanct in the public sphere. If a person can't read Crossed - in my view, an absolute shit-tier shock-value schlock comic - without becoming the next spree shooter, we'll have to find other ways to address that than censorship.

No, it can't. That doesn't mean it's not an utterly pointless game.

A recent movie comes to mind, Rampage. I've not heard anyone say that inspired mass shootings. I don't know why this game is any different. I'm interested to see what a reviewer has to say about it. I hope it's more than just grotesque killing, I'd heard that all that stuff is optional. It seems like a more extreme version of postal.

Looks like a horrible game. It should not be censored at all, if censored means 'legally barred or prohibited from sale'.

@Rigs - I don't have a problem with you having issues with the game's portrayal of violence or having an opinion about it; what I want to know is do you think the game can inspire mass murders or other violent behavior? Based on what?

This is precisely the sort of shit that desensitizes people. This is shock value for money. The people that would enjoy this are likely clinical sociopaths already, so yes, this could be a trigger to push some of the more unstable ones over the edge. Much as I abhor censorship, stuff like this should be censored for the common good.

NKD wrote on Nov 4, 2014, 10:36:
What's with the uptick in "oh noes violent video games!" bullshit going on around this game? Is it just a reflection of all the anti-gamer/self-hating gamer sentiment going on right now?

Excuse me, but don't discount my opinion (or concern) just because you don't agree with it! I'm not going to go into why I think this 'game' has some issues in the way violence is presented - again - but let's just say that while other games that have come out with extreme violence were typically all either stylized (ie. cartoon-ish depiction), done in a tongue-in-cheek or sarcastic way or with 'wink, wink' to it's audience. Games like Manhunt and this one don't present any commentary other than solely killing just to kill. And it's not aliens, demons, monsters, ghosts, gangsters, military, whatever, it's ordinary civilians and local police and it's done in the most realistic way possible for the most shock value possible. To say this won't have some kind of 'effect' (I'm not going to say influence) on it's players is absurd. We all know that even if this got an 'MA' rating (which it probably will), kids are still going to play it. And with the amount of socially isolated, mentally unstable kids out there, it's a recipe for disaster. Children and those with mental issues don't think like normal adults. For you or me, we see the difference. We know what's right and wrong. Apparently, for whatever reason, there are a lot of people lately that don't see the difference or can't. Games like this, that don't have a 'context', a reason for existing, no story other than KILL KILL KILL, are just adding fuel to the fire.

This is MY opinion and only that. By telling me to 'get some balls' or 'stop being a pussy', you're not going to change my mind in the least, so I suggest you don't go that way. I'm not saying you have to think like me or that I'm right but do realize that there are other opinions out there that are markedly different from your own or the popular opinion. That's all I'm saying...


=-Rigs-=

NKD wrote on Nov 4, 2014, 10:36:
What's with the uptick in "oh noes violent video games!" bullshit going on around this game? Is it just a reflection of all the anti-gamer/self-hating gamer sentiment going on right now?

It's an election year in the USA and November is a "sweeps" month, so ratings grabs by all kinds of media will be even more prevalent than usual.

Of course a game cannot inspire mass murders. Everyone has been on a few just-for-the-fun-of-it murder sprees in a Grand Theft Auto game. It's just a game.

As a video game, it is totally free from influencing anyone, in any way.

The author is being sarcastic, but I would point out that "influencing someone in any way" and "inspiring mass murders" are not the same.

What's with the uptick in "oh noes violent video games!" bullshit going on around this game? Is it just a reflection of all the anti-gamer/self-hating gamer sentiment going on right now?